The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: john and helen on June 05, 2013, 08:31:28 pm
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looking at properties for the smallholding..and my brain is beginning to hurt :roflanim:
what is the average size smallholding..in acreage ..i am looking in the region of 6-11 acres
things i would eventually like to have
3 weinners.........Pork joints
4-6 kune kune...sausages bacon..ham
2-3 sheep.........
Turkeys.....meat
ducks..meat and eggs
chooks meat and eggs
quails..meat and eggs
2x goats ........milk
veg plot
orchard
a few xmas trees..4 year cycle
soft fruits...
so !!!! on an average...what size acreage do you have
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Mine is small. Just 4 acres upon which we have 4 goats, 4 sheep, chickens and 70 plus plum trees in an orchard. Its manageable and I'm glad we don't have more as I'm the only one 'into' smallholding here!
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thats a lot of trees plums..but that size makes sense....
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We do cut some hay from that too and have a designated 'nursery paddock' for young lambs/kids etc. It works for us but then my smallholding 'income' and our self sufficiency produce come from what I do in the kitchen (ie. soap making, jam, wine making etc) rather than needing a lot of outdoor space. It is 'orses for courses! sorry, I'm waffling, exhausted - been cutting hay and sheep shearing today - head is spinning!
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My thoughts would be that I think you could achieve what you are talking about on anything from about 2 acres upwards, but the more the better... Your dreams may grow and anything you can't handle in the early days you can simply rent out, eg for sheep grazing. I grew up on a 2 acre small holding and worked on local farms from 12 years old till I went to poly. I then lived in 'normal' houses for about 20 years till finally achieving my dream of a small holding 5 years ago. We have 10 acres with what was once a farm. Life has been pretty hectic since moving in as their has been twenty years of neglect to put right and guess what..along came children, two of them just over a year appart. We have about half an acre ploughed for veg and potatoes.. I have all the potatoe planters diggers etc. from my dads place to fit on my old grey fergie. We have an orchard and half a dozen hens and a poly tunnel which is great. The rest we currently let to a farmer friend who takes hay silage or grazes sheep as suits. I love it and have never been happier. An old farmer friend of my dads once said 'if you are not happy at home, you will never be happy anywhere'. ...chase your dream
We don't make any money from the property, it's a hobby and lifestyle choice, we both work but have a fantastic place to come homer to and my children are growing up in an environment very like the one I did. Something I once thought I had no chance of achieving. I'd like to do more with the land myself, animals etc....that time will come. Oh yes, we've planted an acre of woodland in the hope of having a free fuel supply to heat the house by the time we retire.
Good luck with your search.
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Space required is relative to effective use although more is better I guess cause you can always expand. I only have half an acre but manage a 25x12 polytunnel, fruit cage and reasonable veg plot. I have chickens for eggs and occasionally meat plus run up to ten turkeys from July to Christmas and this year I got two weaner's to run to bacon weight. There's a bit of shuffling round to use all the space but I make use of what I have. Like most folks I would love more room but always wonder if I would use it as effectively!!!
Regards
Stu
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Um we have 40 acres :-ooo .........but none of it had any functional fences when we bought it, gradually doing that as we can afford to. Only managed about 10 acres so far but have done it properly. Also some of the land is taken up by a scheduled Bronze age site, some is boggy, some buildings, a track etc. and it is exposed wildy Scottish stuff. Basically it's a wildlife haven with some light touch smallholding going on within it :-)))
Have 17 adult sheep (15 ewes and 2 wethers plus 21 lambs ( of which 5 are are reserved by buyers and 6 for sale in the autumn, 5 wethers for meat for us and friends and 5 ewe lambs to retain). 4 geese and 7 goslings (goslings going to new homes this weekend), 2 horses, 2 dogs, 4 chickens and 2 stable cats.
It probably is too much land but the way I see it, it provides peace and habitat for the hares and skylarks and pipits and the like, of which we have loads, which isn't such a bad thing.
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... and lots of space to walk and enjoy nature. I regret not having more land for that reason, a walk here is fairly short.
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the first few acres on a property are the most expensive value wise.
we have 65 acres - 20 acres of rough pasture, 25 acres is dense spruce woodland which can only be used for firewood or brave pigs - its prickly! and 20 acres of hardwood trees, which is full of nettles usually. alot of our land is boggy so we feel we dont have enough good land for our livestock and dont grow our own hay ( though we have in the past).
we will be downsizing when we move but it will be proper square functional paddocks that i can fence, cut, fertilise and harrow with ease, and also we MUST have plenty of barns so the cattle and ponies can winter in.
the places we are looking at to buy have about 15 acres which im worried isnt big enough but i think i may be able to buy some land nearby to cut for hay. so the 15 acres would have to be the summer grazing for 3 adult cattle,offspring and a few ponies and goats.
we have kept 30 pigs, 20 ponies, 20 sheep , 6 goats, afew cattle and lots of poultry on our present 65 acres, but the higher stocking the higher problems with worms and the more you spend on feed.
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... and lots of space to walk and enjoy nature. I regret not having more land for that reason, a walk here is fairly short.
You should have mine. I can walk round my entire smallholding in five minutes and I walk with sticks. :roflanim:
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Shy girl has a good point, despite my place being an old farm, none of the buildings are suitable for animals or hay storage, I'm having to look at putting another building up in due course, which on early investigation looks like a 10k exercise.
On which point if the property is above 5 hectares, about 12 acres you can potentially put buildings up under'prior notification'. Less and you have to go through the full planning procedure.
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On which point if the property is above 5 hectares, about 12 acres you can potentially put buildings up under'prior notification'. Less and you have to go through the full planning procedure.
i didnt realise there was a lower limit - thats good to know. will remember that. :thumbsup:
we looked at building stables here...dont under estimate the price on a concrete base...really expensive!
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size is not everything - it depends on what you do with it.
a couple of pigs, ducks, chickens and meat rabbits will keep the freezer full as will a decent beg plot, soft fruit and fruit trees. Location is more important if you want a feeling of space and access to woods and long walks etc
If you drop the sheep and xmas trees off your list and can keep the turkeys away from the other poultry then an acre will be just fine.
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Location is more important if you want a feeling of space and access to woods and long walks etc
definitely. location first. we definitely want to be walking distance to the beach next time so are happy to downsize acreage for that priviledge.
less acreage may or may not mean closer neighbours, which can be a nightmare and stop you from getting certain noisy livestock if they are the grumpy sort. we presently have two very close neighbours and its nothing but trouble. both within 10 metres of our house.
agree with mak- we did have lots of quails and rabbits, plus incubating eggs, in our garage which gave us a good supply of meat all year round, but actually took much more time and effort to look after than cattle or sheep.
you have to think about rotating land if you dont have winter housing.
id say you guys need 7 plus acres of good ground not including resting fields. kunes need grazing and the other weaners will ruin any grazing. depends on what time of year you plan to keep your weaners, as winter makes more mess. we kept some of our hens in our orchard, and im sure they could share with the xmas trees too, if you can keep the fox away. if you have hedges to cut, then that can supply alot of feed to the goats (we have lots of rose hedging,hawthorn etc that they love.)
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John
That place I've PM'd you about is ten acres .. I think the ex river bed ( river diverted years ago ) sandy/ silt soil would be good for crimbo trees on a 4 yr. cycle ,.
It's flat & certainly seems to have good drainage .
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Thanks Dave..i have sent you a PM :thumbsup:
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I was born in a place (not a smallholding) with about 1-1.5 acres including a pony paddock that was let for sheep, an orchard and 2 massive veg beds that my mum managed to get a heck of a lot out of to supplement my dad's non-income. We had apples, plums, berries, she was always out in the veg whenever possible and made jams, chutneys, pickles etc. My brother kept hens for eggs (not very well but he paid "rent" in eggs) and we occasionally had the neighbours' ponies in either tethered on the grassy unfenced areas or in the old stable. I'm pretty sure she had a great network of barter transactions going on but it was just village norm at the time.
My first "own land" was 7 acres and a wee brick outbuilding I converted to stables and stores for the 4 ponies I had, which became 13 and a fair bit of rotational stubble grazing and swaps with another farmer for tups grazing my land against ponies on a grass hill in winter after the stubbles were ploughed. I had a half acre garden and grew fruit and veg there, in a limited way as I was in full time work, but couldn't help myself ;)
Then moved here 12 years ago, 10 acres mostly grass plus a mature apple and plum orchard with one crab apple and a now defunct cherry which now has a young damson in its airspace, various berries and such and 4 veg beds, a growing herb bed "kitchen garden" and a pole barn which has now seen better days but still does for handling and foaling etc. Most of the 12 years I also had a 20 acre hill field on a long term grazing lease but lost it after 9 years at very short notice :( and I really miss the space if not the frequent driving in winter particularly.. Current stock is the Highland Pony stud (12 including stallion, breeding mares, youngstock and a couple being prepped for sale) plus 24 hens and a cockerel and a 3 cat vermin control team :) I'd like the 20 extra acres back but in reality would struggle with the field maintenance work/costs and the temptation to run on those few youngsters or buy in that nice broodmare or otherwise expand beyond my now non-existent means ::) so I'm probably best focusing on what I have and will shortly probably have to reduce to minimal livestock and sell up anyway. I've been taking down a tree or two (40 year conifers that are more hazard than windbreak to the house now) for wood and safety, and plan to replace them over time with willow or some other more lightweight windbreak hedging that I can maybe coppice and continue to take firewood from. Not really got that far. If I had the money my next investment would be a polytunnel so I could make better use of the veg beds in a. the Scottish climate and b. the presence of free ranging hens which now make crop protection more of a job than when I only had pheasants, wild birds, bunnies and misc slimy and creepy things to contend with ::)
When I dreamed it was always of 50 acres or thereabouts, tho I've looked at 15-100 over the years.