The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: sellickbhoy on July 15, 2009, 10:36:37 am
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After watching the Monsanto Pig Patent youtube video, i followed some of the related video links - ooooo scary stuff going on out there
anyway, with global warming, energy crisis, food shortages, disease and a growing world population of consumers needing fed ,is it time to start controlling the population of the planet?
in the past wars, disease, disaster managed to keep the numbers down, but in the last 10 years it's grown at an alarming rate
China passed laws to limit a family to 1 child - leading to millions of children being killed because they were girls and not the desired son.
But are we getting to a point were we need to implement such laws to control population growth, or should the goverment take more sinister steps to do it for us - food stuffs to make us sterile, illegal wars, new diseases
whats your thoughts on how we control having too many people for the planet we are on - or do you think we should just let things carry on.
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Earth's population is currently 6.8 bn and is forecasted to grow to 9.15 bn by 2050! That's a hell of a lot more people! Factor in cliamte change refugees too and we see a massive struggle for space!
The UK is announcing today how we/it will achieve the legally binding 80% reduction in carbon emission agreed on recently (we won't!) but one things is certain we will constantly be needing to do more to reduce our emissions and consumption as the population expands - it is not sustainable!!
BUT what to do? At a 6th form conference on Climate Change last year the pupils were in uproar when a speaker suggested population limitation as a serious lifestyle choice (over and above the usual energy saving light bulbs and turning off standby!) These kids are the enlightened ones, the eco warriors!! Their response scared me!!
IMO I cannot justify a totalitarian regime style decree on family size in terms of how it would be achieved/policed and the respect for the sanctity of life. But I feel education education education is the key - informing people and allowing them to make informed choices to limit their family to 2 kids. Yes folks get pissed off at hearing the same thing (climate change fatigue!) but this issue is so important we must do this!!
I have decided I do not want any more kids (I have 2) partly for my sanity but the environment is a huge part in this decision too. (My wife remains unconvinced but hey my tadpoles ain't moving!!)
ED
PS a useful link http://www.optimumpopulation.org/
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Jeremy Vine is discussing the whole climate change control and fear on Radio 2 at the mo. Catch it on iPlayer later if you miss it. Some are talking about limiting family size, others about how to reduce climate change etc etc.
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The problem is resposible people do think about the children they are bringing into the world and people who don't care don't need to think!
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I have always taken the view that 2 children per family is enough - just replace what you are yourselves. Its my view and not a judgement on others!
I totally agree that education is the key.
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2 kids is more than enough!
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I think Sandy's right - responsible people generally restrict their families to one or two. And no matter how you try to educate the others, it will have no effect at all.
It's not just about climate change, but about sustainable societies. In my experience, and I KNOW this is probably a generalisation, those that behave responsibly, generate the wealth etc etc have one or two kids. Much of this is driven by economics and wanting to be able to support those kids. However, there are many others who, for want of a better word, breed. The breeding is less controlled than in most farm animals - at least the identity of the father is usually known in farm animals. It's not hard to do the sums - those paying taxes and behaving responsibly are supporting increasing numbers of those who don't. Eventually, society will implode.
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An interesting phenomenon I have noticed:
I have a number of evangelical christian friends (used to be one, and no offemce intended to anyone who is one!)
And every single family of evangelical christian friends we know has 3 or more kids!(or are planning such)
This is usually accompanied by a worldview of little environmental concern as 'God will destroy it all anyway!'
Ed
(PS this is partly why I am now a pagan and not an evangelical christian!)
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I suggest to anyone who is thinking of starting a family that they should consider getting a Cavalier King Charles.
1.They are wonderful.
2.They are easy to keep Happy.
3.They don't want the latest toy or game all the time.
4.They NEVER answer back!.
This is just a selection of the good points.
Also it would definitely help keep the population down.
Regards
Joe :)
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responsible people generally restrict their families to one or two.
:o
Didn't you know that contraception was a sin....opppps, forgot i'm not on an Irish forum ;D ;D
Regards,
Morgan
p.s I have irresponsabily had the audacity to have had four little rays of sunshine.
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Hi Morgan
Is that why there is NO Condom vending machine in our Local Church Toilet!. ;D ;D ;D
The problem is not restricting People to one or two kids, It's that most young people nowadays have 3 or 4 but with different people in the same area.
When these kids get to BREEDING AGE lets hope they can find someone who is not their Half brother or Sister!. ::)
Kindest regards to all
Joe :)
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most young people????
im fairly young myself (24) and im just married with no kids (except 1 baby boy who died a few days after birth)
the young people to which you refer, tend to (but not always) be of very low IQ and living/reared in council estates and terminally on the dole.
be careful how you phrase things, it could be taken the wrong way.
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I was sent to take family photos for a foster child and every child and adult I saw in the area was interrelated and I am not exaggerating, a lot looked odd and had behaviour problems but it was like a spiders web linking all the families who shared dads!!! Also when I was doing some drug and alcohol work, some of the drug dealers were dads to a lot of their female customers children........how do you stop that and I suppose it would be an infringement of their human rights to do anything!!!! THe main issue being a lot of children brought up in poor home's with little or no parenting go on to long for a big family, they cannot help they do not have the skills to deal with loads of children and the family then gets cared for by the state!!
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All of us were young people!!!!!! I know, I warned people of stereotyping in another post, hope I don't do it, spent too long being told not to...sorry anyway, from a Youth Worker who was young once!!!
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Is that why there is NO Condom vending machine in our Local Church Toilet!. ;D ;D ;D
We have ours outside the confession box. Buy - confess - go home - go back and confess a few sins of the flesh.....everybodys happy!
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Firstly, a condom in French is known as a ' preservative ' Just thought you might like to know that. It caused no matter of giggles when I was teaching Belgian adults English. We got on to the subject of preserving jam.....
Secondly, population control.
There is no doubt in my mind that something has to be done about the earths population numbers. It will take a brave country indeed in the western world to introduce limits on the number of children you can have. Its just a big ,NO politically. Even in our brave new world, or the new world order, its pushing it a bit.The west can certainly preach this to certain parts of Africa without fear of public retribution, as Africa, well its, a lost cause in the eyes of most.
So it leaves us or them with a problem. How to decrease the population without a backlash.
There are two ways forward with this. War and disease. Historically in times of world discontent, and financial termoil , a war has followed. Manufactured wars are the vogue these days. Targeted wars at countries that may or may not deserve to be hit. Increased unrest across the planet leading to world war or close to it. Manufacture a virus or two for good measure, and we are on course to remove hundreds of millions.
It has happened before and its going to happen again.
Forget bickering about council house teenager mums, or dads that spawn 8 kids and p$$s off. The govt wants all of us to fight and moan about that. Look at the big picture.
Africa is a pain in the backside for the rest of the planet.. Oh, they make all the right noises about aid, and help. However it only boils down to natural resources. That is all China,US /UK and others want. The big prize now is Africa, not its people but all it has that WE need.
Have a good weekend !
Kevin
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Hi Morgan
I like that one. ;D
Gem,
I think it is fair to say that most People how are reading this know exactly to whom I am referring.
But you were exactly right, I am referring to the people you described.
I don't mean people like us who decide to get Married and settle down, Get a job and then start a family.
Like Sandy said
some of the drug dealers were dads to a lot of their female customers children........how do you stop that and I suppose it would be an infringement of their human rights to do anything!!!!
That is exactly right it would be an infringement of their Human Rights to stop it.
But what about future Generations will all these kids Know that they are related when they decide to go out with each other.
If you or anyone else on this site took it the wrong way and thought I was referring to them then I apologise, But I am not apologising to the people to which you refer and the ones I mean.
Also I did use the Word Most and not ALL!.
Kind regards to all especially Gem
Joe
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I remember one young lad telling me his dad had 3 Jobs, he was proud of that fact, one was claiming benefits, the second was window cleaning and the third was drug dealing!!!!! the boy saw nothing wrong and as I said, some people see a lots of babies as a way of getting attention, getting extra money and giving them an added sense of belonging so who are we to tell them to stop re producing, a lecturer in Social Services told us to be blunt with our service users and not beat around the bush with regards to questions, an example was a family kept on having one baby after another and the women was getting a bit worn out with it all, the Social worker dealing with the family said " I thought I told you to stop sleeping with your partner!" the women replied "but I don't, we just had a good sh** and then go off to sleep in our own beds!" I'm off to make all of mine, beds that is!!
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when I was a social worker I once tried to make a family tree of a family who were giving me a headache. I finished up doing it on a roll of wallpaper as A4 couldn't cope. there were hundreds of them,all with different parents. I'm sure the kids were shared out at Christmas. The point I should like to make though is that I will defend to the death their right to have children. Population control should be voluntary and should be rewarded by society in the way that having large families is in some society's.
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Just a thought, if everyone stops having kids (both my adult children are childless) who is going to work to pay for my pension?????????????
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yes I have thought that about Africa for a long time .. why else would they allow aids/hiv get to such huge proportions.....wipe out millions of them and it is easier to step in and 'SAVE' them all ...well those that are left anyway ..and if the gm modified corn etc accidentally causes sterility well hey ho ..bingo ..even less to worry about .....yes !, there is method in their madness...along with madness in their method.
cheers
Russ
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I don't think we should be too harsh about people with big families. A very good friend of mine has 6 children - 3 she wanted and 3 were from non-consential sex with a very unpleasant and nasty husband! I also know that if I accidentally fell pregnant I would have the baby.
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There aren't THAT many accidents. It's just plain carelessness, haplessness, fecllessness call it what you like.
I get so fed up hearing about human rights. It's not human rights it's "MY rights and sod the rest of society that has to pick up the pieces". With rights come responsibilities, if you can't / won't take the latter, you forfeit the former.
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Pensioners should be shot at birth! ;D
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;D ;D ;D
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The problem with limiting couples to 2 children is that it does more than just replace the number of people we have already as we don't die after we produce them, we live on to see them grow and their children so even if a limit of two children per couple was implemented the population would still grow exponentially. this problem is a mine field and needs addressing on many fronts, if a limit on procreation could be achieved it would help but not solve the problem. Speaking as an infertile woman, I believe more counselling for infertile couples to come to terms with it rather than wasting money on IVF would help, there is a stigma connected with infertility, this needs to change. Also, if people want to die, for whatever reason, as long as they are an adult, they should have sovereignty over their body and be allowed to die painlessly and with dignity. Finally, the state should not be expected to pay for children conceived while the parents are on benefit. These suggestions would not solve the problem but they would help reduce it. I appreciate they are radical but desperate times call for desperate measures.
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massive population control is implemented and under way ...they are calling it 'SWINE FLU VACCINE '
cheers
Russ