The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: rustyme on July 09, 2009, 09:38:07 pm
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a few days ago I mentioned in one of the swine flu posts , that ebola would be the next thing to keep an eye on ...well.....
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20090709/thl-uk-virus-pigs-q-a-sb-b2e59e8.html
For anybody that the link doesn't work for :
Q+A-Why is the spread of Ebola in the Philippines a concern?
2 hours 21 mins ago
Scientists are worried about the Ebola-Reston -- a type of Ebola virus -- spreading in pigs in the Philippines and have warned that it could mutate in the swine population and become more dangerous for people. Skip related content
Here are some questions and answers about the virus.
WHAT IS THE EBOLA-RESTON VIRUS?
- There are five distinct species of the Ebola virus: Zaire, Sudan, Cote d'Ivoire, Bundibugyo and Reston. The Zaire, Sudan and Bundibugyo species have been associated with large Ebola haemorrhagic fever (EHF) outbreaks in Africa with high mortality rates of between 25 percent and 90 percent while Cote d'Ivoire and Reston have not.
HOW IS EBOLA-RESTON DIFFERENT FROM THE EBOLA VIRUS THAT WAS
RESPONSIBLE FOR MANY DEATHS IN AFRICA?
- The Reston species can infect humans but no serious illness or deaths in humans have been reported to date.
During outbreaks of the Reston strain in monkeys in the 1990s, around 25 people were found to have antibodies against Ebola-Reston. This means they had been infected by the virus and their body had produced an immune response. However, only one person had mild, flu-like symptoms. This person fully recovered. The other people who tested positive for antibodies did not have any symptoms or illness.
WHAT'S THE WORRY NOW?
- Early this year, the Ebola-Reston was detected in pigs in the Philippines. Pigs are worrisome because they are mixing vessels for many types of viruses and bacteria and if left uncontrolled, experts fear the Ebola-Reston could mutate into a form that is transmissible among people and become more dangerous to them.
HOW ARE PEOPLE AT RISK?
- Unlike monkeys, pigs are farmed for food and far more people are exposed to them, which puts them at risk of getting infected if the epidemic in pigs is not under control.
WHAT PRECAUTIONS CAN BE TAKEN?
- Basic good hygiene practices and food handling measures. Ebola viruses are normally transmitted via contact with the blood or other bodily fluids of an infected animal or person. In all situations, even in the absence of identified risks, meat handling and preparation should be done in a clean environment and meat handlers should follow good personal hygiene practices such as clean hands and clean protective clothing. In general, hands should be regularly washed while handling raw meat.
Pork from healthy pigs is safe to eat as long as the fresh meat is cooked properly -- 70 degrees Celsius in all parts of the food, so that there is no pink meat and the juices run clear. In the case of uncooked processed pork, national safety standards should be met during production, processing and distribution.
Meat from sick pigs or pigs found dead should not be eaten and should not enter the food chain or be given to other animals.
(Sources: Food and Agriculture Organisation of the United Nations, the World Health Organisation)
(Reporting by Tan Ee Lyn; Editing by Sugita Katyal)
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Well all those warnings about Pork are just normal HACCP Health Board Regulations - we had to go on a course to learn all of that before we opened the Butchery - and anyone with common sense, or a nurse, would know that anyhow.
Do you think it is just scaremongering?
I once had a friend who was a phsycic and he told me a lot of things about the future, Cork, New York and Dublin being under water - people rioting over food, and all sorts of negative scary stuff.
He also believed that when the banks crashed (and he told me this is 1994) - that the Government would have to reduce their spending as money would be hard to come by. An Epidemic to wipe out mailny people on low incomes could halve their welfare payments :o Scary or what - I thought he was off his head but I wonder!!!
Julie
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I spoke to the doctor about swine flu, and his reply was that there were far more worrying things out there at the moment that we're just not hearing about. Still given the huge world population at the moment, it's logical that nature would start a cull to cut back numbers. Things always have a way of balancing themselves out, and it looks like billions will have to loose their lives for equilibrium to be restored. I remember in one of the matrix movies that the human race was compared to a virus.
Just found the clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Na9-jV_OJI&feature=related
Interesting idea!?
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yes wait till the new world order takes over ...it will reduce the world population down to 2 billion ... :o ::) ::) ;D
the stuff you read about pork infecting, is scarmongering , but Ebola isn't ...that is scary !!. Luckily ? Ebola Reston, is mild compared to the other versions of Ebola , just hope that it doesn't start to spread like swine flu has ...
The end is nigh !!!!
cheers
Russ
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Hi,
Swine flu what's that - OH you mean H1N1.
But I totally agree this is something to keep an eye on and get ready to stay at home.
Kind regards
Joe
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In 1918 it was Spanish Flu....in 2009 ya don't hear antone saying mexican Flu, wouldn't be P.C The poor pigs get the rough end of the stick!
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Hi Morgan,
Whatever happend to free speach?. ;)
Only joking I totally agree with you it PI**ES me of that the poor pigs get the blame when they can not get or give this H1N1 virus.
Do you ever go to bed ?.
Kindest regards
Joe
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It looks like all the food hoarding is going to come in handy.
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I am starting to agree with our youngest - sleep is for the weak! Lol.
Now time for hoarding....buy a few crates of UHT milk, bags and bags of porridge, bags of flour. Get a few chickens. Stock that freezer to the hilt. Build that solar powered water pump. Get lots of petrol for the chain saw. Get loads of Cadburys chocolate. Get planty of pasta and tinned food. Try to convince the wife again that i'm not loosing the plot ;D
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Oh, and break the news to the kids that daddy is going back to teaching....at home. The horror, the horror!
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i was considering the issue of food hoarding... we have 6 (2 adults 4 kids) in our family..... that is a huge amount of food to hoard, even basic staple foods..... then you have imediate family, could you watch your parents, brothers sisters starve to death?
However that isnt really an issue i could possible manage that, but animal feed would be impossible, even to get a month ahead would be a struggle, with regards to storage, we currently go through 1 tonne of feed per 3 weeks.
mind i suppose if the economy broke down, the local yokles would kill all my livestock before i had chance to stop them???
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Hi Smiffy,
That is exactly the problem,
It's not storing enough food for you and your familly we have a 20 foot steel container we can use for that.
But when it comes to the animals that is a different story.
The likes of the hens, goat, sheep etc will be fine as they can eat leftovers and grass.
Pigs on the other hand are a lot harder to to stock pile for I as you do go through pig feed like there is no tommorrow 20 bags last's about 3 days around here.
Even though I get all the waste veg from our local organic veg grower and our garden!.
All you can do at a time of serious crisis is cut down to 1 sow and 1 Boar then at least we would be able to keep our pork supply coming.
I know that this might sound hard but the survival of you and your family is the most inportant thing and you would have at least some chance of growing extra to feed a few pigs.
Try also to get dried peas and barley seed when I move my pigs to new pasture I throw this on the fields as well as grass seed and six month's later it gives the pigs extra feeding as well as something different to dig up.
Now as for the locals that try to steal you food and kill your animal's,Remember it is after all a time of survival I have 2 shotguns and 1 rifle and after all the pigs have to eat too!!!. ;)
Kind regards
Joe
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Hi Joe
I gave this some serious thought last week
we could cut down to;
2 sows, 1 boar - enough pork etc
2 cows 1 bull - enough milk, cheese cream beef
6 sheep 1 tup - lamb wool even sheep milk at a push
12 hens 1 cock eggs chicken
that would be enough to feed a small army, which i would need to gaurd them!!
in the case of a full blown ecconomic disaster.... i dont think a shotgun would be enough!
we are not issolated enough and our stock would be picked off, frightening really. I would have no issue culling the majority of stock to survive.
not too many years ago in the last ecconomic crissis round here (miners strike) lots of livestock was culled by people, allotments robbed, stair cases burned.... all so familys could survive. these are the stories of the miners strike that people dont know. when someones family is hungry they will go to extremes to feed them. I have heard of sheep, and cattle being culled and only the parts they could carry being taken. farmers devistated to find dead cattle with its hind leg gone, the rest of the carcass wasted.
I have also heard the other side..............
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Hi
I agree with every thing you have said.
The beauty with where we live is we are up the side of a mountain and all our land is surrounded by a river on both sides with only one entrance which not only I will be watching but my cctv and my Rottweiler.
When we bought our farm we took a lot into consideration.
1. Had to be south facing and well sheltered.
2. We are 220 mtrs above sea level.
3. It had to have its own water supply.
4. Water down at least 1 side to give us the chance of making our own Electrick.(We have it down both).
5. Totally secure or at least as secure as possible.
6. Enough space to grow all our own food.
7. We are also lucky enough to be able to put up a wind mill as I can put it at the top of my field and no one would be able to see it.
8. We only burn wood for heat and made sure that we could cook on it as well.
9. We only have 1 neighbour so within 1 mile so I can trap rabbits etc for extra food.
10.We are 2 miles from the nearest village so lots more farms in between and belive me they will be a lot easier targets because as we are getting ready for this the locals think we are Mad and don't give a f**k.
11. We have 240 hectares of forest right at the side of us for free fire wood and as I have said this is all we burn, 99% of people around us only burn oil for their heating.
These are just a few points we took into consideration.
Also remember as I pointed out earlyer it will be a time of crisis and I am 100% I will do anything I have too to ensure the survival of me and mine also as I have allready said the pigs finish what the dogs don't do!!!. ;)
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Hi Joe
i'm coming to live with you ;D ;D
on a serious note, i was suprised to find that a few people on this forum are thinking the same......
many people dont even consider the consequences of an ecconomic fall. They couldnt imagine tescos and asda empty.
If this did happen the wold would be a very scary place. I have an akita rotwieller cross, i bought him last year as my rotty /german sheperd cross is on his last legs at 15 I also have a terrier who rats and rabbits. people have asked my why we have such large dogs...i ask do you want to come in the garden when were out.... NO is always the answer! thats why. the dogs are socialised, good with kids, but loud and big!!!
the majority of people think swine flu is just a cold, and dont see a threat.
I just hope that if anything does happen, i am either taken out in the 1st wave or i can hold on to what i have.
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That is exactly why we have our Rottweiler,No one ever comes in when he is out (He won't let them).
I totally agree that people are just so plugged into the system that they can not see a day when Asda's or Tesco's shelves will be empty.
But the main thing is that people like you and me will survive.
Kind regards
Joe
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A few sound as though you will be mega depressed if this never happens! Scarey, scarey thoughts!!!!!!!!!!
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Do you seriuosly think that a capitalist system such as ours would let the shops etc empty? In places, such as zimbabwe, where there are shortages
you can bet that the upper class is not hungry. If you have money you can always buy stuff. the system won't collapse there is too much vested interest.
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loves pigs
it would be great if the world carries on as it is!
however with the population growing as it is.... it is hard to see how the world can support us all. lets just hope it doesnt happen in our lifetime
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Just listen to the News.
They are always talking about food shotages, Crops failing etc all we are saying is try to be at least a little prepared.
I also would love to carry on just as I am now because I also love all my pigs.
But who knows!.
It's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
Kindest regards
Joe
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Surely then if lots of people are stock piling food, just in case, that may never be used then you are the ones emptying the shelves, unnecessarily from the shops? Panic buying is always a dangerous matter.
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Hello James,
no matter what , there will only be a few that will store/stockpile food , most just won't bother for whatever reason. As for panic buying , well if I were to wait till the last minute and then go out and buy anything and everything I could get my hands on that would be panic buying. I just buy a tin extra here and there . If I normally buy 4 tins of soup per week , then I would buy an extra 1 or 2. That would apply to all that I buy for storage . Once the required amount has been reached then I go back to buying the usual amount each week . No panic buying anywhere, no shortages !!! and no empty shelves . Also a lot of the food in store will be home grown , so how would that cause shortages ? Speaking for myself , there is no panic , no fear of impending doom . I expect things to carry on more or less as normal for some time , but there is always , what if ? The ones that will cause the panic buying , will be the ones that don't have anything to fall back on , now there is the danger !!!!
cheers
Russ
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Here Here
Same as that Rusty - we love our lifestyle and do not want our child to grow up in war and worry, but we do want her to grow up, if at all possible
Julie
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Yes indeed. what about family and friends....could I really afford to waste all that ammo? Lol. No one wants a crisis, but if worst came to worst and there was a huge mortality rate, would the electricity go down...probably. Our oil ran out last winter over the weekend. It's amazing how cold a big house gets really, really quickly. If the worst came to the worst then there would be absolute panic....no police, no ambulance, no fireservice. Then it would be down to the individual to protect his/her family. Best, I think to prepare for the worst and be pleasantly surprised, than do nothing and perish.
By the way joe, if you get some 6 inch plastic pipe (just slightly larger than waste pipe) tape off one end with wire mesh (chicken wire) and run a line of sweet corn into it, it's great for trapping pheasant. They can get in, but can't get out. The pipe should be about 2 1/2 feet long.
God it sounds like survivalists 101, but I don't want to to be looking back in August cursing my lack of preparedness. Like Rusty and joe, I hope it doesn't happen. However if the Caca hits the fan, I won't be found wanting.
Morgan
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Its Friday afternoon, sun sort of shining and the end of another week. I'm reading this thinking OMG it sounds like the world is going to end soon. It won't.
Those of us who could be self sufficient will always do better than those who think they can buy their way out of any situation. I think life is too short to worry so much. We need to enjoy what we have.
There are worse things around than swine flu and ebola - mainly cancer and heart disease. Look at the number of people who die from these and compare to the 'new' diseases - why don't we sort these out before we go on to the new stuff. I run a cancer centre and see the very young and old visit and can't understand why we get so emotional about new viruses when we have the old stuff on the doorstep just waiting. Sorry that sounds too depressing
Hope everyone has an enjoyable weekend
Liz
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Sure it won't end, but i'd like to be there next summer! Wife and kiddies in tow.
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BBC are on it now too:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8143823.stm
And saw this as well:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8143566.stm
Not too sure what my feelings are on it all.
Things like this never used to bother me but feeling a little concerned these days. I remember sitting in a pub predicting a recession to some friends a couple of years ago and they just laughed. Look at us now tho.
Conjours images of the series Survivors that they remade last year...
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Hello Liz,
yes you are right , the world isn't going to end soon (unless it gets hit be an asteroid ???) , but the way we live may ? thats MAY , not will or won't but may. As I have said before I don't walk round thinking the end is nigh , doom and gloom etc etc . , but I do think about the possibility of things going wrong. Some people may , for whatever reason, wish to walk around thinking that everything is fine and dandy, and that nothing can or will ever go wrong ! If thats what they want to think that is fine by me . On the whole I do the same , but I do consider the consequences of certain things that may happen . There are worse things around than swine flu and Ebola yes , but I can't catch heart disease or cancer. In fact I have already had a heart attack , relatively minor (although it didn't feel minor at the time !!) but none the less I had one. My dad died of one 5 years ago !! my mum died of cancer in 1988 , and all my grand parents died of one or the other , so I am fully aware of the dangers that we face every day . As for sorting them out (cancer/heart disease) ... well, I can't ...simple as that ! However I can try to avoid some of the dangers that come my way . I don't close my eyes, and hope I miss all the cars when I cross the road !!! I look left and right , and wait for a gap . Is that worrying ? or is it taking care of myself ? I eat as healthily as I can and I am pretty active and as fit as I can be , is that worrying ? or is it taking care of myself ? Again I only speak for myself , but I choose to do as much as I can , to keep fit , healthy , active and alive . I don't 'worry' about hardly anything really , and I do enjoy my life as much as I can ( my mum was 53 when she died , I am 52 in October !!!) so I know we have to make the best of the time we have , and I do !!!! We all do our own thing , and mine is no more 'the right thing to do' than yours, or anybody else's !! , it is just that 'my thing' !!! Now ... those asteroids ???? I think I have some cream round here somewhere .... errr oh , wrong again .... ::) ;D ;D :dunce:
cheers
Russ
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Wow - not a bad way of looking at life Rusty - you have been through it though, and it does help. ;)
I had a routine ladies op in Sligo 5 years ago, and was told it went well and to come back in six months. :love:
Then I got a call to say they wanted to see me asap - two weeks after the op. :(
I went in and they said a load of technical waffle, and that I was being referred to Dublin. :(
I sat there for five hours, waiting, the a nurse came out when I was the only one left, and showed me to a room.
The Doctor in there shook my hand and said
"Sorry to hear you have Cancer Julie, sit down and I will tell you what we need to do"
Both Joe and I spent a few minutes where time seemed to stop, we just looked at each other, oblivious to what was going on in the room, or what was being said. ??? :o :( >:(
They did not know how bad it was
They had no hospital beds
I could not have an MRI scan unless I was an inpatient on a ward because of waiting lists.
'I could only have six months to live if they do not perform surgery
I ( me wondering if I would live much longer, how to tell mt little girl, parents, sister, firends, wondering how bad it was, was it everywhere, why did they not find it before, will Joe manage without me)
had to ring in every day morning, afternoon and evening, to ask for a bed for the next five days, before they could get me in.
Here I am, after seriously major surgery at 45 years old with a young daughter.
I am older, 4 stone heavier and I hate that cause I was always thin,
I have lots of medical side effects - Hiatus Hernia awaiting major surgery for next year,
Bladder and Bowel problems and I am on lots of yuck medication.
But I am still here - Tara's Mum and Joes Wife
I am happier, busier and more able for a challenge than ever I was, and love life. Pain or no pain, tablets and extra weight - I keep going and am happy for every day
AND I WANT LOTS MORE DAYS - But I am not scared of dying, I have already lived through that with my close family in our hearts and minds - and that causes a change I wish everyone could find within themselves - I am sure the world would be happier and people would be kinder.
I must be meant to be here - I was saved from a yound death - the big C
Now enough of all that and get back to your work!!! ;D :D ;D
Julie
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Julie
Don't quite know how to answer that but I know the last thing you would want is pity so I will say - you go girl! :) You kick ass like you have done in the past and go from strength to strength.
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Thanks James
Sorry about typo YOUNG was meant to be the word - was too busy waffling to remember to spellcheck.
I just want everyone to realise - life - you get one chance at it - make a difference if you can, if only to yourself and the way you see things - you never stop learning, and theres so much of it to do
Love to you all - stay smiling
Julie
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You have only been on here a few days Julie and I think it is clear to see that you are one of those strong and "special" people. I'm not a religious person but I pray all your dreams are answered and you you enjoy a long and happy time on this planet regardless of all the doom that surrounds us on this thread hee hee. Keep well and strong.
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If you werent concerned enough about Swine (ahem, Mexican) Flu - The 1918 flu pandemic (commonly referred to as the Spanish flu) was an influenza pandemic that spread to nearly every part of the world. It was caused by an unusually virulent and deadly influenza A virus strain of subtype H1N1. Historical and epidemiological data are inadequate to identify the geographic origin of the virus. Most of its victims were healthy young adults, in contrast to most influenza outbreaks which predominantly affect juvenile, elderly, or otherwise weakened patients. The flu pandemic has also been implicated in the sudden outbreak of encephalitis lethargica in the 1920s.
The pandemic lasted from March 1918 to June 1920, spreading even to the Arctic and remote Pacific islands. It is estimated that anywhere from 50 to 100 million people were killed worldwide, or the approximate equivalent of one third of the population of Europe. An estimated 500 million people, one third of the world's population (approximately 1.6 billion at the time), became infected.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Spanish_flu_death_chart.png
On a lighter note it seems like the yanks are using the flu to their own advantage http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/bok/wp-content/uploads/boktrans/051016bok_lo_res_web_color_1.jpg
Regards,
Morgan
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You have only been on here a few days Julie and I think it is clear to see that you are one of those strong and "special" people. I'm not a religious person but I pray all your dreams are answered and you you enjoy a long and happy time on this planet regardless of all the doom that surrounds us on this thread hee hee. Keep well and strong.
We could spend all of our lives fretting about what could happen , making food stores and worrying about future generations - just do what you can - live your life, help if you can. What is scary to one of us is not to another, what makes one of us tick or is very close to our hearts means nothing to someone else, that is what makes us unique and able to survive, lifes experiences.
Bobby
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Wow, I think we are on a better thread now. Less of the bridges up and keep the enemy out, to living to enjoy and let others do the same. Everyone has seen what happens these days without being too pesimistic about the future. I see this everyday and do you know who are the most optimistic happy creative people I meet - those who have struggled with illness or know those who have - it really shifts the mind set.
Back to normality - I'm sitting here watching the rain come over the mountains towards me - and am p...ed off as that means my outdoor plans for the day are ruined again - then I wonder why I live in Ireland now. No I'm not going to let it win - wheres my plastic mac and wellies, hat and gloves - mid July and look like I'm about to go to sea, but hey, won't my land look good - one day!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have a great weekend everyone! :-*
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Hiya Lizmar
Illness defo shifted my mindset - always was creative though, and still don't have enough time to do all I want to achieve. :D ;D
But as you are in Ireland - does it occur to you, as it certainly makes me wonder,
WHY Don't them bloo*y little biting MIDGES get Cancer or an Heart attack - or even flu!! ::) :o
Little sods stop me working all the blinking time!!!!
Now, if we could all come up with a way to kill all the little biters sorry blighters, we could share the profits and all live in paradise - and happyhippy could have a little donkey too..
Dream dream dream
Julie
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Well midges aren't a problem today - flooding is. Thankfully live high on a hill but stuck here. If it doesn't stop may have to invest in a boat. To think after my e-mail this morning I looked at the field that I usually cut with a hand mower and thought why put myself through all that back pain and blisters and went and ordered a sit on mower - can't afford but thought - hey, why not!!! Now I can't do anything even my veg looks like it may float away. Seen the golf in Scotland and the weather looks wonderful - what is it with Ireland - or at least my bit!!!???
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it is pi.... err tipping down here to, in Wales ....but then again, it always is ... ::) ;D