The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Cattle => Topic started by: Backinwellies on April 30, 2013, 11:30:04 am
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Following on from another thread on shooting calves ..... does anyone know of any markets for rose veal?
Has anyone made a success of producing it? (by that I mean making any money).
Seems a great area for small holders but the market is the sticking point.
Linda
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Linda, I posted a thread on veal a while ago. I was finding it impossible to get. I asked at the local supermarkets and butchers they all said they don't stock it as there is no call for it.
It seems that most people are still under the impression that its cruel as it used to be in the 'old' days.
Eventually I did get some but it was a bit of a faff. I went on line and ordered it from M&S and arranged for it to be delivered there on a day I knew I would be in Carmarthen.
Somehow though I don't think my 200 grams of veal would be enough for you to consider doing it.
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I agree that the very word "veal" in the UK is linked to all kinds of beliefs and strange thoughts by succesive generations. I can get my children to visit us and share the slaughter of rabbits and ducks that they saw when they were born but they won't eat veal. maybe you could find a resturant market but I am not sure that many butchers would take it.
This is the view from my back door. Pink veal is VERY popular here with the local restaurant favourite on markets days being Tete de Veu. Calves seem to be born all year round and from Spring onwards they are all in the fields with their mums and the odd bull. Older calves are split into groups of 20.
(http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-KSCI8YPxXgM/UG9E9ZMD9mI/AAAAAAAACpo/BLooD7E7I3U/w497-h372-p-o/P1010001.JPG)(http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-xEqiNm_7zNY/UP0gR4sclQI/AAAAAAAAC78/rYja1-YimrU/w497-h372-p-o/P1010010.JPG)(http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-oVMqNg0Vn0w/Ta8Ff9YQY9I/AAAAAAAABKE/eIFHMiGqRcw/w749-h421-p-o/SDC11988.JPG)
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Those aren't veal calves, MAK, they're beef animals. They look like Limousins. Over here we can finish Limis at 14-18 months, it probably takes even less time in a better climate. Whether they finish them for 6-8 weeks indoors on barley, I wouldn't know - I'd doubt it, as the French know good meat when they eat it! :-J
Veal calves will be dairy'bred animals - skinny backends, never going to be worth the fodder growing them on to a bigger size.
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To answer Linda's original question - I think you'd have to look at direct selling, farmers' markets, etc. Online, even. Once you can establish that people buy the stuff, then you could see if a butcher would buy direct from you.
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I'll have some! :thumbsup:
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There was a farmer very local to us here who was having a go. She called in with a basket of their products and we bought 4 packs of the mince which was OK but given a choice it would be beef everytime. Not sure how they're getting on as she hasn't called back again....unless we've been out and I've missed her. I'll see if I can find the leaflet that she left.
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Hogget and mutton have had a resurgence in recent years with celebrity chefs championing them.
How about coming up with another name than 'veal'? (teenage beef? Perhaps not :roflanim: ). I have never eaten veal because of the way it used to be raised, but I have eaten rose veal. I found it a bit insipid, but then I like my meat with plenty of flavour. But for a delicate meal at a dinner party or in a top-end restaurant, rose veal would be great.
The word 'veal' does conjure up baby calf in most people's minds, whereas I understand that rose veal comes from an older animal, no younger than a spring lamb.
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The pictures above are of Limousin Rouge Sallyinthe north. I believe are sold as rose veal at 18 to 20 months. The ones you see are as big as they get and would have been moved to Italy or local buyers within a week or two. My neighbour tells me that he sells his animals as veal not beef so maybe the ones above meet a different standard in the UK. No dairy cows around these parts and even the supermarket butcher will display the farmer ( picture sometimes), location and herd number. They queue for it and eat every single part of the animal - tongue to feet and tail - even the bones are sold cut thru on small trays. We buy the kidneys to cook in cream with mushrooms.
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Sunnyside in Portpatrick produce rose veal pies ok but i prefer the Dexter ones! The have a website though probably worth a look :fc:
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Have you seen http://www.jerseybeef.com/ (http://www.jerseybeef.com/) ?
Edit - sorry, blonde moment, I forgot her whole enterprise is taking dairy calves beyond veal age. Doh. :dunce:
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I maybe don't understand what 'rose veal' is.
Here's what I thought it is.
When veal had a bad name, calves were incarcerated in crates so that the blood stayed pale and the meat also stayed very pale, almost white. They were killed at about 6 months old, I think. They would never have seen the sun, never have run and skipped, never have eaten grass. :'(
Back in the 70s, it was discovered that the meat would still be very pale, although not quite so white, if the calves were kept in reduced daylight, in strawed yards in wooden barns. No grass and no sunlight, but they could be reared in groups, could play and nibble straw. :thumbsup:. (The barns had to be wooden, not metal, to prevent them getting any iron, which would have coloured the blood.)
In the 80s, calf crates were outlawed in England. (I don't know if it was the whole of the UK or just England, but I do know they were outlawed in England.) At this point, many people began to eat veal again, provided it was English (ie., reared in strawed yards in groups, not in solitary confinement crates.)
More recently, people have been talking about rose veal. I had understood this to be very young animals still, not more than 8 month-ish, but which had been allowed to be outside and on grass. Hence more iron in the blood, more colour in the meat, 'rose' rather than very pale or white.
The Jersey dairy farm my Hillie came from (and sokel's Jersey bull calves too) rear and slaughter their own bull calves at about 18 months. It is beef, not veal, and it is dark and full of flavour. But there isn't much meat on an animal, and the butchering costs are more-or-less the same as for a more meaty beast, so for most folks there isn't enough profit in rearing the Jersey bull calf. Wheelbirks use their own beef in their cafe, and sell it from the farm, so manage to make it pay.
In England, the beef in the supermarket, unless it states otherwise, is likely to be predominantly continental breed, often Limousin beasts, generally 16-22 months old. The same will be true of a lot of butchers' beef, too. Any beef from a more native type, matured for up to 30 months (legal maximum since BSE - which is a shame, as some breeds benefit from a further 6-12 months), may appear in the regular beef packs but is more likely these days to be marked as Hereford, Aberdeen Angus, Shorthorn, [Ruby Red] Devon, Galloway or whatever, and be slightly more expensive. Not much of it will be 30 months old, but the majority will be nearer to 26 months than 20, as it takes these animals that bit longer to reach maturity.
We get our early lambs away at 14-16 weeks old, typically, weighing 37-39k kgs. They'll kill out at 18-19 kgs. The continental market will buy lambs much smaller than the home market wants, down to 14kgs deadweight and less. There is also a very specific continental market for 'milk lamb', which is the hill sheep's lambs, straight off their mothers (ie., not weaned), straight off the hill, typically about 4 months old and not, to a home market eye, anywhere near finished. I guess this is the ovine equivalent of 'veal'.
Generally I prefer my meat well matured (and well hung after butchering too) - deep dark red, full of flavour. :yum: But I can see the appeal of the occasional, more subtley flavoured and generally mouth-wateringly tender, meat from a much younger animal, not hung for long. Much paler, succulent and sweet. I had 30-month Castlemilk Moorit chops tonight, and I challenge anyone to produce a lamb chop with more flavour. But I do still enjoy the occasional meal of young Charollais lamb - nothing like the depth of flavour, but tender, moist, sweet and succulent. :yum:.
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so the answer is to sell beef as veal to the French maybe :innocent:
SintN you have raised another question which I'll put in sheep
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I'll check at what age my neighbour sells his cows as veal. I will also check that the word "veau" does mean veal. They speak a patou ( spell check needed) here and an old lady told me that the word for vache differs from village to village.
Yep - ship the veal out here but it could be the same story as with cheese. The French believe that only they can make good cheese despite British cheeses winning so many competitions. Could be the same with veal from UK
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I'll be interested to hear what the French think of our beef and veal - we are told they go mad for our lamb.
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yeah me too. They do make a fuss about their cows around here. I'll take some photos when the bulls and heffers are next taken into town and BBQ meat is given to us punters. quite a site.
They are certainly happy to pay for what they think is a quality product. Roast chickens on a market go for 13€ to 16€ becuase they are "farm" chickens.
Supermarket and butchers display the farmer's name, herd and even animal number for veal/beef - Large glass walls behind the butchers counter show up sides of the animal hanging behind them.
average French spend 70% of income on food ( apparentley) and they won't buy cheap
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.......... I will also check that the word "veau" does mean veal.
"Veau" is French for Veal (Je n'aime pas ça)
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We bought some veal from the butcher a few weeks back. To be honest I would rather use chicken for half the price or spend the money on a good beef steak.
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I'd love to try rose veal - River Cottage have been championing it for a couple of years now. Neighbours have taken some dairy boy calves so have to see how that goes. I could really fancy doing that too - the cow equivelant of raising weaner pigs?
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Fi, my favourite is Italian style with marsala wine sauce. Mmmm, making me hungry just typing about it.
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We will be needing lots of recipes by the end of the Autumn as our 2 will be going and they are for our use :-\
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Oui mercie OhlaLa J'étais ironique.
;D ;D ;D
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I'll be interested to hear what the French think of our beef and veal - we are told they go mad for our lamb.
Agneau <<St George>> is EBLEX marketing British Lamb over there, I believe and it is a premium product.
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I think i have said before, i used to produce veal on the farm, using dairy bred bull calves from neighbouring dairies.
The term veal is a bovine under 9 months i think. same in france and anywhere else in the EU. the french would use limis or anything not just dairy for veal. but it will be 6 months old never older than 8 months.
rose veal is simply the term used to described the slightly darker coloured veal produced in the uk from calves eating a varied diet that cannot by law be just milk. the term veal does not have anything to do with milk fed.
my calves were reared on a volac machine for 8 weeks then completely weaned and finished on silage and a compound cake. we would finish anything up to 10 months old to make sure we got the right size.
i prefered a carcass of around 150kg dead weight.
all were butchered and sold through my own butchery. we would finish at least 2 per week and at peek times up to 5.
demand and interest was strong, we featured on the f word with Janette street porter. we sold through farmers markets, direct to restaurants and to wholesalers. i was never short of customers.
there is now little or no veal produced here in scotland but there is plenty out there(heaves farm veal) another producers tried to change the name to some rubbish like field raised ruby veal.
there is demand, but you need consistency of supply restaurants want it every week not just once a year.
Myself i prefer beef, dark well marbled golden yellow fat. Dexter being my choice. but the veal allowed me to start in farming and build my herd.
i still supply a customer in edinburgh with veal, he buys the whole carcass from me with no messing. he loves it. but i use angus cross dexter calves, because thats what have and he pays a good price for it.
if anone wants any more info feel free to ask
dominic