The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Ladygrey on April 20, 2013, 09:34:16 am
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Hi there :wave:
After having the charrolais recommended to me as an easy birthing sire, I used him this year on 4 ewes.
Out of the 4 ewes, two got terribly stuck at the shoulders, one lamb nearly died (of a twin) but pulled through and then Thursday night my last ewe lambed. (my baby) and the lamb was again stuck at the shoulders and HUGE!
same size as our two week old suffolk mule lambs.
This time the lamb ended up dead and the ewe is very sore :'( was so so upset as the ewe (called Ben) is my baby and was a bottle fed lamb.
Ben now has a suffolk mule lamb as a replacement and so far so good both mum and lamb are doing well together.
Apart from the shetland cross charrolais (which look amazing) the others are really quite hairless and took a while to get going and are actually lagging behind the shetland cross Ryeland lamb.
As lambing has to be moved back to january next year (due to barn/grass availability) I would like to try using a down breed (but not so fond of the ryeland)
I have always known Hampshire downs but oxfords were recommended due to fast growth, but im not impressed with the lack of rear end on them! and then Dorset downs were recommended due to easy lambing, but cant see much of a difference between them and the Hampshire! ??? :thinking:
My ewes are a mix of the below
2 shetlands
4 shetland crosses
2 zwartbles
1 texel mule
2 suffolk mules
First timers will go to shetland ram to make more shetland crosses but at the end of the year I may go out and get 3-4 more pure shetland ewes.
So ram needs to be good for shetland ewes (the bigger type 40-50kgs)
Can anyone point out the differences of the down breeds for me?
Many thanks
Jess
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Neighbour off mine has Oxford downs lambs in jan and the lambs are HUGE by end off feb! Have you thought off using a Dorset ram?
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Dorsets are the smallest of those. It is unusual to have Charrolais lambs with birthing problems - but last year has led to some funny problems cropping up. I doubt any of the down breeds would be easier lambing than a charrolais.
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Dorsets work well with shetlands. I have seen the results and they look good.
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Our neighbour reckons he'll never use a Charolais on his big commercial flock after this year - they just can't cope with the wet weather. I've used our Southdown rams on Badger Face and Lleyn and not seen any lambing problems in around 120 lambings. All Down breeds began with the Southdown but some are showing the symptoms of becoming popular terminal sires - bred for size above all else. Our own flock is bred for the whole package - longevity, good mothering, keeping condition, good feet, teeth and udder and so on.
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All Down breeds began with the Southdown.......
Did they? I always thought the Wiltshire Horn was the grandfather of the down breeds....
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I know that the down breeds probly arent going to be any easyer than the charrolais, but I am also looking for something much more wooly and with get up and go!
I have thought of using a Dorset yes :) but at the moment I cannot see much of a difference with the dorset and the hampshire?
Marches how heavy are southdowns? and what is the growth rate of the lambs?
Just to point out, the problems we have had are not on the shetland ewes!! problems have been with suffolk mule/ texel mule and zwartbles ewes.
Shetlands just seem to get on with it and then the lambs grow like stink!
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Sorry just realised you meant Dorsets and not dorset downs!
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I used to have Dorset Downs and the pedigree flock never had lambing problems to speak of and I never stayed up all night! Used the various rams on other breeds I had around very sucessfully too. Dorset Downs are bulky but have small shoulders which helps.
Saying that Charolais have small shoulders too....might just have been your ram?
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You could always try the NZ type suffolk.
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I used a Hampshire Down ram lamb on my mix breeds of ewes this year and have been absolutely delighted with the results. The ewes have all lambed unassisted and I have had the best looking crop of lambs I have ever had (19 lambs from 10 ewes). The lambs were also very lively at birth and up and sucking within minutes. I was dubious about introducing a new breed of ram after using Charollais for many years, but wish I had done it sooner! If anyone is looking for some flock replacements PM me as I will have some ewe and ram lambs available come weaning. The ram lambs are Hampshire Down x either Suffolk or Charollais.
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As a Hampshire breeder i can't recomend them enough but i would be a bit fond of them ! :eyelashes:
We cross to Llanwenogs and Charolais and find it them good fast finishing lambs we tried a Dorset ewe with a Hamp sire this year and the lamb was twice the size of the others at 4 weeks so we are hoping to get some more Dorset ewes this year. Dorsets are known to be milky ewes.
You could try a high index Hamp ram he would be a bit narrower in the shoulder but still finish lambs well
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Here's some of my Hampshire Down X babies at 3 weeks old (Charollais x) and 4 weeks (Suffolk x). The spotty chap is out of a mule x suffolk ewe and he is 3 weeks old.
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We have 19 mules, 8 Oxford Down ewes and an Oxford tup. This is our first years with the Oxfords and I love them! Our first lamb born was a single pedigree gimmer and she's stunning, huge and sturdy ;D. The Oxford x mule are nice chunky lambs too, we've not had any problems.
Gemma x
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All Down breeds began with the Southdown.......
Did they? I always thought the Wiltshire Horn was the grandfather of the down breeds....
John Ellman of Glynde in Sussex was the first to really use selective breeding to improve the sheep local to that area, around 1780, and to cross in other breeds to improve some aspects (e.g. the Merino for fine wool). He was so successful that within 20 years the cost of hiring of one of his rams for a season could have bought a small country estate. The breed was crossed into many others to fast-track in his improvements and, of course, crossed with the Norfolk Horn to produce the Suffolk.
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"As with all domesticated sheep, the exact origins of the Wiltshire Horn breed is obscure, although skeletons found at the excavations of a Romano-British farm at Rockbourne Down in Wiltshire and other stone age sites indicate the presence of similar sheep which stood a mere 2 inches shorter than the modern Wiltshire. Many consider the origins to lie with the European Moulflour or wild sheep which still flourish in Corsica and Sardinia and that these were introduced to Britain by the Romans. Others say that the Phoenicians bartered them for copper and tin from the mines of South West England.............."
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Mmm, I don't think the Southdown owes any more to the WH than the WH does to the primitive breeds of Scotland. Maybe lamb became the plat du jour all over the place.
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I think what happened was that they, along with a lot of other sheep were put to a merino.
They were (or are) the original large, white sheep of the southern downlands though.