The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Dogs => Topic started by: JMB on April 11, 2013, 09:57:33 pm
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Hi. I appreciate this is a complicated question.
We would love to get a couple of dogs, but we are both out at work all day.
Plus we have sheep ( very timid ) and chickens ( also timid) [size=78%]and pigs ( who love dogs).[/size]
I'd prefer to get rescue dogs rather than from a breeder.
Is this an impossibility?
It there a breed that would suit ?
Or is it really down to training?
I love greyhounds in particular but I've looked after them before and I've seen them in action after a squirrel/ cat/ bird.
Thanks
Joanne xxxxx
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Most rescues will not rehome to people who will leave the dog for more than 4 hours in one go. THey have usually had a nightmare of a life so far so the rescues wait until a nearly perfect home can be found.
All dogs would be ok depending on your perception on what will happen day to day. There is a tendency with smallholders to expect dogs to roam free all day and not get into trouble (this is a neighbour of mine not a TAS member!). This does not work - if the dogs are out then you need to be controlling the dogs not feeding the chickens/ponies / sheep etc... (rant over).
So get what breed you prefer and adapt your training and routines to suit.
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I've got a rescue saluki x greyhound, he is NOT safe round livestock, generally the problem with sight hounds is they have a switch, it's either off (they are asleep or eating) or it is on, when it is on they just become single minded killers basically, and you can't catch them, they are also pretty much one of the least trainable type of dog in a traditional sense.
Saying this I had a deerhound x greyhound previously from a pup and she was livestock safe, but I did have her from a pup.
I'd say if you get something really really small like a teacup yorkie you should be alright. :-J
In all honesty I think you should get a pup, and invest your time in moulding what you want. As for breeds, I'd avoid sight hounds of any description, I'm not sure it's fair on them with chickens and sheep around. Just go to your local rescue centre and see what pups they've got then take it from there. Anything that has been or is likely to have been stray should be avoided with your livestock.
The advantage if breeders is that (with the right one) you can be pretty sure of the potential of the pup you buy.
Two dogs are easier than 1 in my opinion, but equals five times as much trouble when they decide to mess about
Best advice is don't jump in, the right dog will come along, and when you see it you'll know. My problem is I just keep seeing them, and then I know, and then they're mine
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I think if you want to avoid issues with livestock you need to either get a puppy (preferably of a non sight hound and guarding breeds) or an older dog from a rescue but one of known tolerance to livestock.
It is extremely hard to train an older dog especially a rescue out of the idea that livestock are good fun to chase or worse. Give yourself the best chance of it being a happy experience.
However, and you might not like that, I think it would be very unfair of you to get a dog at all while both of you work full time.....it really needs to wait until one of you is at home at least part of the day.
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OK - here I go - soap box time -
I appreciate this is a complicated question. - having an animal is complicated regardless which species
We would love to get a couple of dogs, but we are both out at work all day. - No way should you have a dog if you are both out working all day - what are they supposed to do all that time? Unless you have someone whop can come and be with them most of that time - but then it isn't your dog is it?
I'd prefer to get rescue dogs rather than from a breeder. WHY? You have absolutley no idea what has gone on in a rescue dog's life - it might have had four homes, or none at all.
Is this an impossibility? Yes
It there a breed that would suit ? No
Or is it really down to training? Yes, if you get a pup but you do not have a suitable environment for a pup.
Sorry to be so blunt but I have seen so many re-homes over the years that I am extremely cynical.
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I do agree with Doganjo on this matter. She is very passionate on this issue. When my husband started making "getting a dog" noises three years ago it was a dog or work.
We now have a lovely well-adjusted happy (I think) dog and a happy husband who has developed skills in website design, photography, horticulture, animal husbandry, village politics, restoring old cars, wine and beer brewing, watching the rain, breeding mealworms, looking after me............ The list is endless :-))
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Agree with all that is said, with one exception. Not all rescue dogs are trouble - I have one pedigree collie and one rescue collie and the pedigree boy is a more complex boy by far. Meggy, our rescue, is the easiest little girl who would be wonderful in any home.
It is also a myth that all rescue dogs are screwed up - many are pups and many have to be rehomed due to difficult family circumstances and will make lovely pets. Breed rescues will always check out a dog and potential home before rehoming and provide back-up with any probs.
Donna
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OK, rescue or not aside, working full time is not a good environment for having a dog.
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OK, rescue or not aside, working full time is not a good environment for having a dog.
As I said, agree with all that was said
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Okay. It is not ideal to have any dog if you both work full time but if you are at home most of the time that you are not at work then I do think it is possible and you could potentially give a very good home to a dog or two.
When my OH and I both worked full time we would not have taken on a pup but did have 2 or 3 dogs. We took on my fathers retired gundogs ;D . They were used to life in a kennel and hence being on their own for periods of time. They were older dogs and so quite content to lie in comfort for a few hours. They were fully trained. They were used to being around/ working around stock and so ignored sheep etc. They could be and were taken everywhere .... because they were so obedient. They quickly adapted to life in a house.
Of course, they still needed a good run in the mornings and were taken out twice when we finished work. We were lucky in that my OH could get back to them at lunchtime to give them a quick walk and on the odd occasion that it was not possible we made arrangements for my father or a neighbour to pop into them. They had human company in the evenings, weekends and school holidays (I was a teacher so lots of weeks off). They were taken everywhere with us, including all of our holidays. ;D They were very happy and content. I am sure that they had more exercise and stimulation than some dogs whose owners don't work. I think it can work ..... because it did for us ;) ;D You may need to choose carefully and work around some problems but then don't we all? Few things are perfect.
Retired gundog??? Or a part trained gundog that has failed at being a "working dog" ??? The latter would be younger but with that comes the need for more exercise etc.
Owners of working gundogs should be able to tell you a lot about their dogs and their suitability to your circumstances eg. know their reaction around sheep, poultry, people. You may or may not need to do a little house training, teach good house manners and so on. We had many over the years and all adapted with few problems.
Hope that helps ;D
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We have 2 wolf hounds 1 11 months old and 1 5 yrs old aswell as the smaller dogs, the breed are known for killing poultry and other small furries.
Our 2 are 100% will all livestock. The 11 month old one grew up with last years lambs and used to join in the games they had, sometimes she was at the back and other times she was the leader. she still washes the ewe lambs face in greeting when they meet
They are in contact with poultry, goats,goat kids, lambs, calfs,geese, cats,african greys and guinea pigs every single day both with us and alone and they have never even looked at the animals in a wrong way
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We got a border collie 2 years ago, she is lovely but the harmony of our smallholding just went out the window. She came as a pup and has adapted and the livestock are used to her BUT they don't trust her - we brought in a wolf as far as they are concerned.
Although I am here all day, she is really my OH's dog (he's at work all day) and I have discovered I am not a dog person (OH is but I'm not and I'm the one that's left with her all day). She is company but if I'm 100% honest, I'd rather not have her. She will stay as everyone loves her now, but as I say, the harmony has gone.
It's like having another child and I'd rather have had another child actually :D
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It's like having another child and I'd rather have had another child actually :D
Given the choice I'd have another collie :eyelashes:
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Thank you for your replies and good advice.
I wanted a rescue dog as they all need a home and some are actually advertised as being happy to be left at home during the day.
Not ideal I know.
I think we have alot of homework to do.
J xxxxxxx
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Can't you bring 'it' into work sometimes or leave it in the car so you can take it out at lunchtime, or is it possible that your work allows you to provide a dog crate somewhere.
I can see what you mean, there are lots of homeless dogs in the world and wouldn't it be better to have one in a home with lots of fun at weekends and a bit of fun during the week, maybe two smaller dogs would keep each other company.
Good luck JMB.
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Can't you bring 'it' into work sometimes or leave it in the car so you can take it out at lunchtime, or is it possible that your work allows you to provide a dog crate somewhere.
I can see what you mean, there are lots of homeless dogs in the world and wouldn't it be better to have one in a home with lots of fun at weekends and a bit of fun during the week, maybe two smaller dogs would keep each other company.
Good luck JMB.
I agree with the sentiments here. Two dogs definitely better than one if you have to leave them. But remember a dog can die in a hot car in 10 minutes, so better left at home in a kennel and run with non-eatable toys, preferably with someone checking them a couple of times while you are away.
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Often we get dogs when we are at home all day then things change, then we have to either adapt our working life or make things safe for any dogs, that's the position I had and sometimes have now, its not so bad with an older dog providing there is a safe and dry sheltered area for them, also not in direct sun or in draughts, can be inside but be prepared for an odd accident and maybe a few re designed bits of wooden furniture or walls.
My house is pretty ideal, nice sheltered yard with padlocked gates and not seen from the road, so I can leave them for a while quite happily provided they get quality walks and interaction, a lot of people have dog walkers now, they are not too costly and much cheaper than child care :innocent: , some times a neighbour can also pop in!!! Its very difficult but not out of the question to have a dog and a job!!!! Mind you, I hate going out to work everyday, my dogs are OK about it but I miss my walks :innocent:
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:wave: JMB .... been thinking about your doggy dilemma.
Really think you could make it work for you and a couple of dogs. I had forgotten that my smallholding neighbours recently took on a new dog. They did have a dog that they homed from a traditional rescue centre. No problems with their cattle, chickens,geese, etc. When this dog passed away, they wanted an older rescue dog once again. They now have a cocker spaniel ..... a retired sniffer dog from a couple who live locally who train and work in the industry of guard, sniffer and search dogs. Josie was of course fully trained and obedient and has made herself right at home. The couple think she is great .... affectionate and very easy. The hard work of training has been done and because the couple who owned her were local, she was already sound around stock. I know that she came to them on a trial basis too ..... so they could see how they coped with her( neighbour has MS). They have also rehomed GSD etc. locally and again successfully. Josie is more than happy to lie for a few hours either in their cottage or in her outdoor kennel. She had always been a kennel dog so quite used to it. The only thing she does incessantly is bring you her tennis ball ..... that was her reward when a working girl. ;D
:fc:
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I had a collieXspaniel when I was still nursing and used to ask people to pop in on her but she still ate the house out of boredom so I had find her a happy home.
Now, I'm working from home and have Murphy who is a terrier crossed with ?border collie?! (but who knows!!) and I have to keep him occupied a lot, walks, mental stimulus, companionship. In fact the only time we have a problem is if he finds a loose 'lino' floor tile at night in his utility room and he'll pick and peel at them ::)
Be nice to have a rescue dog like you say JMB, they'll have been assessed so hopefully you'd have a good idea of what their needs and requirements are but like Anne says, its also good to have a clear idea of breeding...
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Hi Lisa :wave: :love:
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Hi Lisa :wave: :love:
Helloooo!! ;D
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We have an eleven year old rescue greyhound called troy, and a nine year old overweight rescue lurched called gyp who has recently gone blind.
We work full time, however different shifts so they are usually only home alone four or five hours. They do longer occasionally but I wouldn't do it every day.
Troy refuses to go out for walks if it is cold, wet, windy or dark, and sometimes just because he would rather stay on the sofa. Gyp will go out at any opportunity but has to be talked to the whole time so she knows where you are, leading to people referring to me as the mad dog lady :roflanim:
Neither shows any interest in cats rats or mice and gyp actually ran away from a deer that jumped out near her before her sight went despite having been bred to work them. She is a deerhound x ::)
They really are worse than toddlers, and I had gyp from a pup so can't blame anyone else. Having said this, I think rescues are the best in the world.
I know our local RGT are always very helpful, if you like Greys why not ring and talk to them?
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some dogs can be perfectly happy left at home all day (2 dogs definitely better than one) - that said, if you are both out all day, all week, then that's a lot of time alone, and if the dogs are new to you/your home then you really need more time with them whilst they get used to your home/ routine. If the dog needs a lot of training then you really need a lot of time at home.
my dog stays at home without problems, but I don't work full time and I try to take her with me when customers allow.
my dog (german shepherd) was completely wild, uncontrollable and quite aggressive when I got her (at 4yrs old), but with training (a lot), she's fine with livestock (even newborn chicks - and she gets raw chicken every day to eat) and very well behaved with an excellent disposition. But I did spend a LOT of time with her that first year (newly self employed and had a lot of free time).
Don't know about greyhounds except that there are a lot looking for homes.
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I won't sell any of my cocker pups to families who work full time. Working type dogs will destroy the house if not given enough stimulation and they get quite depressed.
I have had sight hounds, mongrels and spaniels and all trained not to touch livestock. I have even taken in the odd dog during holidays and they get the same lecture that chickens are not an easy snack! They soon learn that my grumble means to leave. Having said that I wouldn't leave them or my youngster alone with the hens.
The sheep and goats make it perfectly clear where they expect dogs to stay, now my dogs sit quietly by the gate unless I call them!
You could get a dog flap into a lockable room. I did that into back porch and dog could come and go when I was working full time. Garden was completely secure. I did also get people to walk at lunchtime but they get used to being left and I gave them good walks morning and evening.
Whatever you do don't get 2 pups from the same litter or at same time or training is a nightmare.
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Whatever you do don't get 2 pups from the same litter or at same time or training is a nightmare
i would go further and say dont get any puppys if you are not home all day .... how would you be able to train them. Older rescue dogs maybe quite happy to sleep away the day.
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Lots of people get a dog when at home all day then go out to work when its older...a lot of peoples cercumstances change, perticularly now with current job market, if you get a dog its ideal to spend some time while its getting used to the new environment and settle the dog in, many people who do not go out to work actualy spend a great deal of time away from thier dogs anyway, thats fine, as long as they are settled and have stimulus and walks regularly and are kept in a safe environment when they cannot get up to mischief or upset others or injure themself. I also think most dogs are good up until they area a year old then they get a bit rebeliouse and can then get anxiety problems, in that case, I would be careful about rehomeing a 1 year old but a 3 year old is usulay more stable, its a bit like either taking a teenager into your home or an adult!!! If you cannot be at home, a good idea is puppy walkers, neighbours being paid a few £ to pop in and out and hopefuly a sympathetic boss, I could have easily taken my dogs to work and left them in the car while I visit people, but not in this weather...this meaning HOT and its not actualy hot today....so, basicaly, most people who get dogs are out the house for as long a period as many people who work.....I could easily return to work and be happy that my dogs are happy too...........and my neighbours...so...go for not so young rescues and make time to get them settled, buy some congs to stuff with treats, a good walk before you pop off to work and a good one when you get back...quality is always best, some people may be at home all day and just watch Jeremy Kyle :innocent:
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Sandy makes a good point about dog walkers being a partial solution. My next door neighbour's daughter has just started her own business doing that. But it IS costly - £12 for an hour's walk per single dog, £18 if she takes two at a time. And that is fairly standard in this area.
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I sold a pup that had owners out all day etc but that pup has proven to be a little star of a dog, so wonderful, so it can be done........dog walkers are getting more and more popular, shame that Clackmannan council are not keen on people looking after dogs durring the day, I did give that a thought as I am here all the time but was told I would need planning etc so sod that one,,,,,,shame!!
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Only need planning if you do home boarding. Gill isn't doing that, she is dog walking and no planning was required.
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You could get a dog flap into a lockable room. I did that into back porch and dog could come and go when I was working full time. Garden was completely secure. I did also get people to walk at lunchtime but they get used to being left and I gave them good walks morning and evening.
I had a dog flap, into a secure garden but never knew what I would find when I got home. One day, when he was nice and comfy on a chair on a divet cover I didn't recognise. It had been a windy day and it would seem that next doors cover blew over into our garden. He obviously took a liking to it and got it though the flap to sleep on. Another day he pulled down the curtains and curtain rail. Don't ask me how he did it but he got the whole lot through the flap. He must have spent all day working out how to get a 4 ft pole and curtains through a 1ft hole. :roflanim:
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I had a dog flap, into a secure garden but never knew what I would find when I got home. One day, when he was nice and comfy on a chair on a divet cover I didn't recognise. It had been a windy day and it would seem that next doors cover blew over into our garden. He obviously took a liking to it and got it though the flap to sleep on. Another day he pulled down the curtains and curtain rail. Don't ask me how he did it but he got the whole lot through the flap. He must have spent all day working out how to get a 4 ft pole and curtains through a 1ft hole.
:roflanim: :roflanim: :roflanim: That would be a great onYou tube, plus a dog flap would fit a burgler as well!!
Funny I was told that even for day care I would need planning so I gave up, especialy due to the B&B but we are not doing that now........also, a company wanted to open day care place in Alloa but were not allowed, same with 2 women I spoke to on a dog walk.....I was told Clackmannan council is much more difficult than Strling where no planning is required...anyway, I gave up on that idea as I could not see myself running after a mad dog in Devilla Forest...so I intend to foster some dogs!!
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She's in Alloa, doesn't take them into her own home so no planning issues at all. She walks them from their own home or place of work. But I suppose you can't walk dogs on lead with your hip problems.
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Sounds hilarious seeing curtains being dragged through the flap! My dog didn't have access to main house at that point as I had already got fed up with her spring cleaning. Even managed to jump a 4' stair gate to shred anything she could find upstairs!
Settled down with a companion but I went self employed after a couple of years and now come home every lunchtime to walk them.
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Not got hip problems..... :roflanim: my hip was put back in place a long while ago, its back problems I have...........mind you, my joints get some strange goings on too!!!!!!
I think about dogs pulling and do not like the idea of taking out dogs that I am unsure of as I do get off balance due to my back, the lower spine is badly twisted and cuts off my nerve supply with sudden movement........I have no probs with my dogs as they are very good on the lead...but a lot of dogs are very very bad, you should see my brother in laws springer!! it lives up to his name ;)