The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Tedshort on April 05, 2013, 05:57:09 pm
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I have a Southdown ram who has started butting. He tries it on mainly with my daughters but today I made the mistake of turning my back on him and he came at full force nearly knocking me over. He is in with 4 ewes and their lambs. He seems to go through stages. He doesn't chase after you but his bead butting has now turned into taking a few steps back to get more momentum. Any advice appreciated as my two daughters age 14 & 15 do most of the feeding etc.
Thanks
Ted
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He is protecting his ewes and lambs. Is it possible to keep him separately but with a wether companion?
Not to be indelicate, but sheep are well aware that human females are female, and it is better to stay away from them at certain times of the month. Your ram may well want to include your daughters in his harem so will be trying to round them up. You however are a competing male so unless you show your dominance now you are in for a battered time.
People try various ways to show dominance over their livestock with various degrees of success. One which does not work is to whack your ram's head, because he will see that as fighting so will get back at you. The drawing back is indeed to get a better run at you, and when two horned rams meet after a long run-up it's cringeworthy and one or even both can be killed. The crack when they meet is loud :o
A very important rule when dealing with rams is NEVER to turn your back on them no matter how docile and cuddly they are. The worst are those which have been the friendliest and cutest as lambs :sheep:
For your daughters feeding the sheep, it is best for them not to go into the field, but to have a trough near an edge so they can lean over the fence and pour the food in from there. Or you could build an 'air lock' of hurdles just inside the gate, then have the trough by that and pour the food over.
But really it's best to keep your ram away from the ewes other than at tupping time, but to give him a wether companion.
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Fleecewife sums it all up rather well and the advice is good.
Don't turn your back, and best not to let your daughters in there - as advised, feed over the fence.
He won't stop so don't think he'll grow out of it or get used to seeing you all.
I've had some nasty bruises and been almost sent flying a few times. By comparison the next ram, raised in exactly the same way (and of the same breed) never batted an eyelid at us.
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Was the ram bottle or hand fed as a lamb? I agree that he's trying to dominate - very unusual in such a docile breed and out of tupping season. If he regards himself and you as part of the same flock he will seek to lead. I prefer my rams to be just a little afraid of me and never forget that I'm from a predator race. A ram's skull is 6 times the thickness of ours - they're not called "rams" for nothing! One thing we've found works is to hold your hand out each side of their nose and rapidly wave them up and down, as if you're towelling something off. Having almost 360 degree vision this confuses them mightily. Only drawback is that they have to be pretty close to try it!
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I hired two different Southdown rams a few years ago and they were quite Aggressive. The first had been hand reared and was fine with me but near broke a friends leg. Does serve him right as I told him not to feed him polos and turn his back but he knew better!
The second one was just downright evil. Thought he was going to destroy the trailer on way home. Gorgeous meat but wouldn't keep one.
I would agree with Fleecewife, keep separate if you can. They definitely know men from women, my Suffolk doesn't care of my other half sometimes, mind don't blame him!
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Many thanks for your advice. Don't know if he was bottle reared as I bought him in. I don't have a wether but will keep one back for next year, will one be enough?
He was ok until we started feeding nuts so maybe that has something to do with it.
I have just come back in from the field and decided attack was the best means of defence so as soon as he came anywhere near us I gave him a good hard smack on the nose with an alkathene stick and chased after him shouting and screaming. I then got my daughter to do the same and he soon legged it.
I don't think he is aggressive just a bit of a bully so I want to nip it in the bud.
Ted
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Well done Ted....alkathene pipe is my weapon of choice too......but go for the front legs not the head as that is what another ram would do.....eventually you only need to bang pipe on wellie and NEVER turn your back :-\
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Hi all- I have also seen a problem with my 2-year old tup. Up until a month or so ago he was fine and a bit of a 'scaredy-cat'. I now think it is down to offering feed on too regular a basis to him and the ewes that he wintered with- loads of snow and thus regular hand feeding (now he is in a paddock with a wether). Not feeding him, and chasing him with a piece of pipe works to keep him wary of me- but it is quite tricky and you have to be very aggressive- but he is not to be trusted- he has big horns and is fleet of foot (Castlemilk Moorit)! Once he has got some spring condition on him I'll send him to slaughter. I now realise I don't like adult tups and think that using a ram lamb and then sending to slaughter the following year is the best option for me. Lots less hassle and much less chance of personal injury.
Anyone want a cheap tup? ;D
cheers,
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He probably expects food and butts out of frustration too. Never trust one, the clue is in the name ;D
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My castlemilk is a bit on edge at present - I always pen him with a handful of feed before feeding the ewes who have their lambs with them. But last night I had the chance to speak to my neighbour's and although one minute he was at the bottom of the paddock, the next he was 10ft away.
I was ready, got his hornes then he turned into a softie - but I know/realize what he could do given the chance - on the plus side my wee lambs are out in the paddock and hopefully have a bit of a protector :thumbsup:
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As good rams are scarce near me I tend to raise my own and ones I buy come in young I seem to always have a group. What has worked well for me is a bucket of water dumped over their head as soon as they tried anything. I have been known to climb over the fence and go after one of them with it. Probably looking like a complete lunatic yelling at them. The talk down at the ram pen is likely something along the line of " watch that one, she's not right in the head" :roflanim:
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Buy a starter pistol and some blanks, when he starts to think about butting put off a shot, if that doesn't work do it at close range when he gets to you, failing that have him shot for real. Aggressive animals should be shot if they can not be rehabilitated, your daughters must come first. Don't bugger about with him the longer it goes on the harder to break.
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A bit harsh. Rams by nature will protect their ewes and their territory and people need to respect them for what they are. Like other animals such as horses which are aggressive, usually humans are at fault.
Every effort should be made to re-educate and use common sense to keep them in a separate area. I usually try and make sure I work with someone if in with rams so there is a distraction and help if needed. If he does his job well he deserves a chance, otherwise curry! Young children should not be in with dangerous livestock and definitely not unsupervised. Even a protective ewe could cause injury if she feels her babies are threatened.
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Keep the girls out - people have been killed by tups. You give it a good leathering if it starts - as you have done. Don't be namby pamby about this - those who take the nicey nicey approach have never obviously faced a tup in full flight. I was floored by a ewe when I was about 6 because I was cuddling a lamb (not even hers). It really hurt my back and took a while to recover (I still remember and it was nearly 50 years ago!). Its easy to lose sight of the fact that sheep/tups are big hefty animals and much stronger than us!
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its common for a tup to get aggressive, and more so in a smaller flock as they will be tamer. I used to grab 1 by its ears if it attempted to butt me, stopped him but he'd have another go next time ;D
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I don't think any rams are to be trusted, there may be some exceptions but generally they can become reactive over ewes and/or feed. My Ryeland ram was a docile pussycat until his second year of tupping, when he suddenly started charging me whenever I crossed the field if he was in there with his ewes. He reverts to being fairly docile if not kept with the ewes, which I now don't do because he was butting both the ewes and lambs and butted one lamb right through the electric just because it was in his way! :o .
I have another large tup, a Zwartbles, he's also a friendly one but I've seen the power he has when butting the Ryeland and I wouldn't like to be in the way! I had a Gotland who was very 'butty' but after being whacked across the knees with a piece of blue hose he got the message and all I had to do was smack my leg with it and he'd back off. Not tried that with the Ryeland or Zwartbles, they are big powerful rams and I'd have to be a bit quick!
Rams will live quite happily with other wethers or rams if not near females. I have a group of three rams and one wether at the mo, they are fine to feed (but I never turn my back on them! ;D )
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A bit harsh. Rams by nature will protect their ewes and their territory and people need to respect them for what they are. Like other animals such as horses which are aggressive, usually humans are at fault.
aye against strangers and intruders not the bloody hand that feeds them. you get bad rams who wont accept their place and in smallholdings you eat them.
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We presently have 11 rams sharing a field - our 3 year old stock ram, two 2 year olds and 8 shearlings. One is Badger Face, the rest Southdowns. All are very docile .... now. I expect this to change as tupping time nears and also with age, but I never turn my back on them any more than I would a bull or a boar.