The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Jcrang on March 31, 2013, 07:58:47 pm
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Any ideas much appreciated.....
Had 14 live lambs from 7 ewes, 5 shearlings and two old girls so very pleased as all had doubles.
Three weeks later I'm left with 7 ewes and 7 lambs. The lambs are very slow and lack any sense of energy, compared to the mule lambs they are like slugs! One ewe had lost all milk, stopped eating and scouring so is in antibiotics and drenched, to give here a chance I have her 2 on the bottle. Another had a good sized double, had milk they had both sucked and been given kick start as an extra boost but 48 hours in they both died. No watery mouth or other signs or infection, full tummies but both dead. Lost another yesterday was in a small paddock seemed fine but they dead in the morning. One had a deformed leg/foot and also died today, others died in the pens and barns over the past 2 weeks.
My only other experience is 5 years lambing the commercial girls who by comparison have been fine. On 200 out of 500 and whilst there have been some issues they are doing pretty well considering the year they have had.
My remaining 7 that are still alive are very slow and lack any real get up , they are on creep, the mums have maize silage, hay, meal and have plenty of milk, they are wormed and on Hep p.
Any ideas???
Quite disappointed with them at the moment.
Anyone have any experience of Ryelands and had similar issues??
I think I'll get the vet out tomorrow if get any more issues.
Thanks
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Poor things, I'd definitely have the vet if you don't have any sheepy neighbours who can help you. Let us know what they diagnose, Ryelands are such lovely sheep, they are on my shortlist so hope it's not a problem specific to the breed.
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Have you dosed the lambs with Vecoxan as coccidossis will kill?
I breed Ryelands and have never experienced your problems.
We only feed our ewes prior to lambing and after, ewe nuts as they have the right balance of what they need if fed at the rights quantities.
Have you dosed for fluke as that is also very rife this year?
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To be honest if you have had lambs die over the last two weeks along with shearlings, and you say one had a deformed foot was this one of this years lambs?
I would have had a VET out within a day or so of more than one dying for no apparent reason, for if it is a virus or an infection you may have past the point of incubation and to late for veterinary medicine.
I do hope that you are lucky with the rest and you can save some of your lambs.
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Its kind of weird though - if you have 200 commercials out of 500 who have lambed fine and are raising lambs fine to have these problems just with the Ryelands...
Maybe you bought a poor strain?
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or came with some condition/virus etc??
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Post mortem?
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sounds like third semester schmallenberg infection, brain problems and lack of thrift, blood test would give an indication if the virus is present
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Thank you all, I'll get in contact with the vet. It is very strange that its only the Ryelands. No sign of fluke, no bottle jaw or poor condition been kept on dry ground away from main flock. It's very weird and pretty upsetting as I so wanted them to do well so that they have a place on a commercial arable/ sheep farm and have very quickly got attached to them.
Fingers crossed next year will be better for them.
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Are you saying that the ryelands were kept seperate from the main flock? I don't know if its relevant but on the farming forums they are seeing calves where for no apparent reaon they are failing to thrive thought to be related to schamllenberg ( as they have also seen schmallenberg on the farms)
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You do need to get a PM done the minute the next one dies, I would have done that after the second one died anyway.
Also who is the sire (is he yours) and is he (closely) related to the ewes? Are the ewes related (as in have same sire and/or are sisters/half sisters)? Any pedigrees?
Have the ewes been vaccinated/boostered with Heptavac P+?
When did you buy them - were they already in lamb? and if yes, where did they come from. I don't know where in the country you are, but if down south Schmallenberg could well be implicated.
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This week I heard schamllenberg has reached Scotland.
Cosmo
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My Southdowns and Badger Face are a good half condition score lower than usual for lambing this year and are lambing early (1 week early means they've lost 17% of their serious growing time, after all), but lambs have been vigorous and are all, presently, surviving, even the twins born 6 days early to a first timer than were just skin and bone with fuzz where a fleece should be. Have just spoken to my neighbour across the valley and his ewes' milk is drying up after 3 or 4 days, lots of problems like mastitis. Lambs lack vigour and he's wondering about SBV - no malformed lambs yet but has heard there may be residual effects on the ewes even so. We put our breeding stock in the "midgiest" field in July and August in the hope they'd get it then if it was around but he's 150 ft higher than us and has less shelter.
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As lots of us breed ryelands successfully then you can be assured that its not "a ryeland thing" though whatever it is, its clealy limited to the Ryelands in your flock. I hope that the remaining 7 continue to thrive and doubling your flock in such a bad year is not too bad despite your losses. I do hope that you get to the bottom of it and that you have more luck next year.
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Oh that must be so heart breaking and frustrating. Hopefully the remaining 7 will start to thrive as the weather improves. As Buffy has said quite a lot of people on here breed Ryelands, myself included, and honestly I don't think this is a Ryeland issue. I have found them to be remarkably resilient. A couple of our lambs have been a little weak this year and slow to suckle but have come through ok so far. We have not had a great season for twins with quite a few having good sized singles instead. Although I obviously adore my first timers, I am a fan of also having older ewes too there is a reason they have got to that age and have such good antibodies to pass on. Will keep my fingers crossed for your guys :fc:
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OMG....sorry to hear this Jess, One lamb born so far to my Ryelands which is obviously same ram, who now all live with other friends as have had to give up sheep is thriving.....all other lambs of this ram in past have never had a problem....
I would have been straight to vet for PM on first one as I think you have a problem. Ryelands are easy sheep, not difficult ones and its not the ram.....
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The ram was mine, good ram, well looked after, wormed and fluked.
You do need to get a PM done the minute the next one dies, I would have done that after the second one died anyway.
Also who is the sire (is he yours) and is he (closely) related to the ewes? Are the ewes related (as in have same sire and/or are sisters/half sisters)? Any pedigrees?
Have the ewes been vaccinated/boostered with Heptavac P+?
When did you buy them - were they already in lamb? and if yes, where did they come from. I don't know where in the country you are, but if down south Schmallenberg could well be implicated.
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Could it be that your soil has some deficiency or other that was not present in the area the ewes came from? Some micro nutrient lacking from the diet that the ewes were used to that then suddenly was absent might cause problems like this.
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We crossed our North Country Mules with a Ryland a couple of years ago and found the lambs very sturdy and quick to get up. I do hope you find out what it is and can do something to save the others.
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Could it be that your soil has some deficiency or other that was not present in the area the ewes came from? Some micro nutrient lacking from the diet that the ewes were used to that then suddenly was absent might cause problems like this.
That or feeding of lots of cake or....over fertilised pasture which has caused an imbalance springs to mine as you have lost older sheep as well as lambs. From what I have seen of Ryelands they literally live on air! Trying to keep them slim is more of a problem!
I think it might just be what VSS has said....and must ask what mamagememt the ground and grassland they are on has had? :bouquet:
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Soil deficiency is an interesting thought as they were kept on our other farm with the cull ewes away for the hogs and breeding flock. The grass they were on is a pretty old lay of 37 acres and only used for silage and parking for Glastonbury festival! Any recommendations for soil analysis companies??
Val it's great to hear the rest of the lambs are ok, my 7 all came from different places so no pattern emerging there. On Hep P and had boosters 5 weeks pre lambing, wormed as well earlier in year. Not fluked but think we are free at the moment. Udders are good, not sign of mastitis or lumps.
I'd agree with condition score in the Mules as they have had a tough winter but the Ryelands were In pretty good shape, maybe even a little too fat.
It really is a mystery but great to here that other Ryeland breeders find them pretty resilient. If they were the Mules they would have a red dot and be sent to market but they are far too lovely for that!!! I've moved them today to an old walled garden that is now grass so they have a sheltered place, fingers crossed everything will be ok from now on.
Thanks for everyone's advice and support, this is definitely my favourite website!!
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Did you say Parking, will the drops of diesel and oil not foul the ground and if so the accumulation of heavy oils over the years could have soured the lay. And the by the sound of it the animals have been poisoned as the symptoms of heavy oil poisoning does induce wobbly walking, deformity in young, and brain damage.
You must definitely have the soil checked and you may need to look at last years silage if cut after the festival and have that checked for it may contain heavy oil residue.
Lets hope all goes well with the remainder of your Ryelands.
Tala
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Lack of selenium? Can be fixed with a jab from the vet. Fluke may not have been a problem in your sheep in the past but can be spread on pasture by wildlife vectors such as deer, hares, etc. Wet conditions will allow the intermediate stages of fluke to survive and be eaten by sheep, whether or not they have suffered in the past.
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Having had Rylands in the past i found them to be easy to keep and healthy. I would want a PM before even thinking of breeding again. Sorry that this has happen to you but you need to get to the cause.
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If you are that near the festy, then you are near me and our soil is copper deficient for sure.
Fluke has also been hideous round here and the losses all round are dreadful, esp with cattle around abouts.
Dunno which vets you use but I find westfield very understanding with regard to pet flocks and they are more than happy to issue advice :thumbsup: