The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Smallholding => Equipment => Topic started by: Fleecewife on March 30, 2013, 11:02:31 pm
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Hypothetical(ish) question - in an emergency, say if the driver collapses at the wheel, how would you stop a car which has an electronic handbrake, from the passenger seat? The handbrake doesn't work when the car is going along and the switch is far to the right. It would be very difficult to reach across the central bit between the seats to reach the pedals, but could maybe reach the ignition key - if you turned off the ignition, would you also lose steering?
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..........if you turned off the ignition, would you also lose steering?
The power steering would turn off, and the steering lock would turn on.
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Electric handbrakes? Why. As far as i was lead to believe, when i used to build cars in my youth, the vehicle had to be fitted with a mechanical park brake, indipendent of the normal hydraulic braking system. Unless the construction and use regulations have changed i wouldn't think an electric parking brake was legal
A few weeks ago one of the lads at work parked his VW Passat on a slope in the car park at work and applied the electric park brake. When he got back to the car later it had moved.... and was embedded in the side of a VW Golf. For no apparent reason the parking brake had failed. You can't beat the old "brick under the wheel" park brake
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Trying to stop a vehicle using the handbrake would be dangerous pulling the hand brake applies the rear wheel brakes and can induce a skid. It would be better to kick your foot across and apply the foot pedal while holding the wheel. Of course hypothetically speaking this is assumes reaction and no panic as the driver may possibly slump over taking you straight into the hedge.
Discovery electric brake is a prop brake so pulling that at speed could mean all 4 wheels locking and the shafts shattering.
Prius has an electric hand brake but then they're a death trap already so that will probably speed up
Finally parking according to the Highway Code when you park on a hill you are supposed to turn the wheel in to the curb, therefore your friend technically be prosecuted.
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It's a 2010 Subaru Outback and the electronic brake is standard - but weird :o I don't really trust it at the best of times so always leave the car in gear when parked. Everything in the Subaru seems to be electronic and it definitely has a mind of its own.
I would think that if this problem were to happen it would be more important to stop the car somehow even if it blew up the engine or broke the axles, rather than crashing and dying, so I am trying to have an advance plan so there is no thinking time. Maybe I shouldn't worry about it - it might never happen, but then again, it might.
It is not easy to reach a foot across from the passenger footwell as there is a central console bit in the way. I would think it's possible to push the gearstick into neutral without using the clutch, but then the car itself would still have to be stopped. :thinking: :thinking:
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Hassel..... Landrover ELECTRIC handbrakes do not work on the propshaft as per older models . Infact it is only the Defender that uses a transmission brake in the current line up.
Other models use small handbrake shoes inside drums built into the rear discs.
Some are good old fashioned lever but most are now electric. The Evoque and current encarnation of the Freelander use electric motors on the back of the caliper.
Back to the original posters question, the ability to reach the handbrake from the passenger seat depends on vehicle some are next to the gearlever as per normal ..... But that has always been the case. The old Peugeot 504 and jaguars had the handbrake on the RHS of the driver.... And a lot of Mercs use a system that can only be used by the driver.
Some manufacturers are now turning away from electric handbrakes as they could never get them right. Replacing the motors on discoveries is a very expensive job . Adjusting and maintaining them is not straigh forward either..... So much for progress !!!!!
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Oh i stand corrected, well I have both one I work on and keep road worthy the other I give to a computer technician to keep going
Can you guess which is which :innocent:
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Oh yes.... There are some days that all I use at work is a laptop !! Very clever stuff but rather dull ! But that said most jobs on modern LR's are a PIA.
Still luv 'em though :-)
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"electric motor on the back of the caliper"
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha......... how long is that going to last down on the farm. I do think Landrover have lost their way somewhat. Bottom of the JD Power reliability survey too
And i have four of the buggers (had five till the Disco TD5 got nicked) '81 Series 3 Diesel is the daily driver :-)
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I do think Landrover have lost their way somewhat. Bottom of the JD Power reliability survey too
When you lead the pack though you are going to suffer mistakes
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I am not sure sure they deserve to be bottom of J.D. Power. There are just some cars that I never need to touch... Freelander2's are pretty sorted. And my own Defender I have had from New and never had to do anything to it in 7 years. Most of the problems can be avoided with care ;-)
Despite their faults they do the job better than anything else.
I have heard recently of a Discovery 3 owner being annoyed at needing a new engine at 470,000 miles !!!! That is Toyota territory!
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But i've had TDCI (2) Defenders imobilise themselves when changing a light bulb and then need re coding. And Disco 3s needing new suspension bushes for the first MOT? And the diff breaking up on a (dealer serviced) Freelander 2 at 70,000 (three years)
I'll stick to the series motors thanks
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Pardon ::)
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Jules... Not sure why a tdci should need attention after a bulb change as they are still pretty simple and don't have much in the way of can- bus tech that is blessed upon the rest of the automotive world.
Yes Disco 3's are horrendous money pits, with some of the jobs still listed as "body off" . And full suspension rebushes are common at pretty low mileages. But I guess that is a trade off for trying to achieve the impossible ( fantastic off road and superb on road) .
Under Fords wing LR made huge steps forward, and it is clear that this continues with Tata....... And all the time they are less than perfect they keep me in business....... Once they become perfect, they will loose their attraction......that is why Hondas, Toyotas are so dull.....
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I thought that was just the drivers :roflanim:
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I thought that was just the drivers :roflanim:
LOL.... Ouch !
I have a "spare" Toyota avensis sitting around as back up incase one of my many vehicles is not working..... And I do find myself doing more miles in that than anything else....... Soooooooo dull.
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Hu'Hum...any further thoughts on stopping the Subaru ?
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Oooops sorry..... In the unlikely event..... Turning the ignition off , as long as you don't take out the key would slow you down... The engine would still be turning as it would still be in gear (unless it is auto) so you would still have PAS and Brakes as they are engine driven.... ( unless Subaru have started using electic PAS pumps. )
Nice to have all eventualities covered.... But I hope you never have to do it.
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If it is a manual "box you might be able to knock it out of gear and try to get to the footbrake. Really don't know what I would do?!
Electronic handbrakes are technology for technologies sake. I really do not see a need for them and I hope it is a fad that passes soon....along with the associated hill start assist etc.
Rgds
Sskye
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Thank you - yes it's a manual gear box (I don't like automatics). I have got used to the hillstart doodah but I can't help wondering how long that and the electronic handbrake will last. This is supposed to be our forever car, and in all other ways it's great.
I think we'll take it into the fields which aren't too wet now, and experiment with getting it into neutral, and trying to stop it, all off the road. I'll let you know how it goes. If that doesn't work I will contact Subaru direct.
PS we also have series 1 and series 3 Land Rovers so wonderfully electronics free :)
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I will let you into a secret...... Even though I am a LR specialist, and have fields full of them..... I always make sure nearest and dearest drive something sensible..... And for the past 24 years my mother has had Subarus. Her last one is still going strong at 17 years old. So is a good choice for a forever car ! The "hill holder" on her one and I assume it is the same on yours is entirely mechanical and has not needed any messing with from new. If you do wanna have a safe play switch of the ignition and see how quickly it slows down.... Important to keep it in gear and the key in the ignition.
The last incarnation of the Range Rover with the electronic handbrake had the capability of stopping it from quite some speed and was even part of the demonstration when you were luck enough to have a factory backed test drive.
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Hu'Hum...any further thoughts on stopping the Subaru ?
We have a 2012 Forester and that has a conventional handbrake. But more relevant to your question turning off the engine at the key does not lock the steering until you remove the key, and on ours that takes quite a deliberate effort. You would lose steering power assistance but not immediately and if the car is still in gear its own motion will drive the hydraulic pump as you slow.
You don't have the model with the "key in the pocket" feature do you? I'm not fond of the idea myself.
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So it would work just to turn off the ignition and stumble to a halt?
I don't know what the key in the pocket is, so I probably don't have it ;D just a normal ignition key with door lock doodah.
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Re: Turning the engine off and coasting to a stop - only if you are on level or slightly rising ground? If on any downhill slope, you'd be better to keep it in gear so you have the engine braking wouldn't you?
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Hi Sally :wave: - yes, that's why I put 'stumble to a halt' meaning still in gear. Can't reach the clutch or brake from the passenger side, but yes, wouldn't try to knock it out of gear, although if we were going fast, I wonder how it would pan out then. I really don't want this to happen (although I would be the one collapsing so wouldn't have any say in the matter :roflanim: ).
The longest I ever coasted in a car (not this one) was about 4 miles in Yorkshire ;D so it could be a slow way to stop the Scoobie ;D
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One thought I had was a second brake control on the passenger side - they fit dual controls to cars being used to teach learner drivers, could something similar be fitted?
Or some sort of 'dead man's handle' (gruesome term! :o) on the steering wheel, like on an electric lawn mower, so that if you stop holding that, the brake automatically engages?
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I think if they were unsafe then the manufacturer would have recalled all models with electronic hand brakes and changed them for manual. Soon all cars will be driven by robots anyway :roflanim:
My original question was just an idle thought, a 'what if' moment.................................
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The top of the range Subarus and a lot of others have a key that merely needs to be near the vehicle to unlock it, and there's just a pushbutton to start the engine. So the "key" stays in your pocket.
Not sure about it myself. I could see us swapping drivers and the one with the key wandering off.
There's an automatic braking system standard on some Volvos now which uses radar to look for hazards in front and will intervene if you don't. Not to mention the Google driverless car which sounds perfect for those trips to the pub.
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About 60 years ago my Mum had a vision, well two actually, but this one is relevant. She told my sister and I as small children that one day if you wanted to travel anywhere you'd go to your door, clap your hands and a car would come. You'd get in it, tell it where you wanted to go, house number/name, street, town etc, then when you wanted to go home or anywhere else you'd do the same again. Far sighted or what?
Her other vision was that one day you'd type a list of your groceries on a typewriter (no computers in those days), press a key on the machine, and an hour later your groceries would come down a chute into your kitchen. Not quite so accurate but close - go to supermarkets websites, type your list, and a man with a van comes with the groceries.
Maybe she was a witch? :excited:
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Annie, are we related? ;)
My Dad had a few visions:
- one day we'd get our computing through the TV screen (this in an era when only very large companies had computers; they ran off punched paper tape and took up a whole room)
- one day, handling of waste / rubbish would be big business
I don't think anyone's ever thought anyone on that side of the family was a witch - but I did have one boyfriend used to tell people that my mother was a test pilot in a broom factory... :D (He loved her really. ;))
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Annie, are we related? ;)
I think we must be - your message could be from me "rarely short of an opinion but I mean well" :-[ :innocent: :roflanim: :roflanim:
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Annie, are we related? ;)
I think we must be - your message could be from me "rarely short of an opinion but I mean well" :-[ :innocent: :roflanim: :roflanim:
:roflanim: :roflanim: :wave: :-*