The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Dogs => Topic started by: Mrs Snoodles on March 11, 2013, 10:52:23 am
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The winner didn't really register with me to be honest, but that labrador :love: - more so, his owner and their obvious joyious bond, really did. What a delight to watch.
I'm usually fairly sceptical about Crufts as we have proper working dogs here. All pedigrees but their builds and temperaments so incredibly different from what you see in the show ring. Even so, I was won over by that lovely yellowfellow. Ours are slimline and bred for speed. He was huge but still I reckon seeing him thundering across a field a top whack - he would be a force to be reckoned with. Wonder if he has any drive though?
The gamekeepers classes were very disappointing. Now that the docking rule exists, the number of true working spaniels is dwindling fast. There won't be much of a show in a couple of years time. My friend had to bring in her 15 yr old cocker to make up her team!
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Lovely boy, but sorry but I thought he needed to lose about 10kgs!
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I just loved that Romeo too!!! I was reading my FB when people kept saying how fat he was but then a good friend in the doggie world said he was just big built and when I watched last night I could see he was pure muscle and such a happy lovely dog and owner!!!
I did like the winning dog but could not help wonder how those dogs with the long ringlet dreadlocks walk , I would have to look up thier name as are internet went down when I wanted to check, especially in wet weather, its like not shearing sheep I suppose, the poor things would never go out up here, its always damp.
I loved the bits of crufts I watched and did have a few tears in my eyes, we / I would love a Burmese, lovely big strong gentle giants!!! :thumbsup:
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Shep, my labs are slim and working Labs but many breeders have the bigger stronger labs, on my FB there are loads like him and I do prefer my slimmer versions but he was soooooo wonderful :wave:
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Give me a working line lab any day. ;D ........ just can't take to the show lines ..... so heavy.
BUT ...... the Flat Coat :love: ;D ...... a true dual purpose gundog.
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I went on Friday, the breeds are getting better in my opinion re inherent problems and I do appreciate what your saying about the lab that got second, it just worries me that to an untrained eye it looked fat, and that it will give less knowledgable owners an excuse.
In my opinion the King Charles should've won, I saw it on Friday it was a lovely example and as a standard was moving in the right direction away from the inherent problems of that breed, it winning would've done a lot of good to the breed as a hole.
Still a lot of diamond eye in the big breeds and that German shepherd was still too low in the hips for my liking
Anyway, I wanted the puli to win, I love puli dogs, I'm saving up for one at the moment, hopefully September / October time and I intend to show it and do agility as well
Happy (puli or pomadour are the dreadlocked dogs)
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I too hope that people now don't start going down the heavy lab route - luckily the gene pool is so huge you will always have a good variety (round my way, small sniped face labs are popular). That dog looked fit and well proportioned. He was just a big beautiful strong boy.
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I loved that big strong boy look, and such a happy sole that I just wanted to cuddle, my chocie Lab was watching but then gave up and feel asleep :innocent:
I would love to have gone, not got a clue how they can judge one breed against another, me and my husband kept saying "we want one of those" most of the time although he is keen on a Saffie, not my type of dog, I just love Labs, espeicaly gun dog types!!!
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Best in show was a Petit Basset Griggon Vendeen - it has a rough, harsh outer jacket with a thick undercoat.. The yellow Lab is a working Gundog in Italy. Their Labradors, like many other continental breeds are dual purpose. In the UK Labs and other gundog breeds have split between show and work and rarely resemble each other, more's the pity.
The Breed Clubs of the Continental breeds (GWP, GSP, Vizsla, HW Vizsla, Bracco, Spinone, Munsterlander, Weimaraner, Brittany etc) are trying their best to remain dual purpose in the UK - I only had one of mine at Crufts this year, due to Allez's recent operation - Belle was 1st in Veteran Bitch and 2nd in Open Bitch - she beat 4 Champions, including our Breed Leader who has 32 Challenge Certificates and has never been in the same class as her prior to this.
This morning Belle was hunting as usual and pointed two pheasants, a rabbit and a couple of pigeons, all flushed to command, and she sat to flush each time. Truly dual purpose.
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Im afraid I thought the lab was hideous. It did look overweight, and if it wasnt, and the fat look was not fat but just extreme large bones and flaps of flesh/skin, then as a breeding trend then it is a trend that has gone too far IMO, it looked like it was wearing a sumo fat suit...... I certainly wouldnt want any dog of mine to look like that.
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Well done Annie :thumbsup: :dog:
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If you look closely at the video - and know what you are looking for - you will see that what was rippling under the skin were muscles not fat. Videos and photos can be deceptive. I was there and saw him.
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Annie, can't agree more re the lab, truly a healthy and obviously very very happy dog, I just see people bringing me working breed, doesn't matter what, springers, labs etc, dogs that are overweight, I always comment and its always over feeding and lack of exercise, what worries me is that these owners, who undoubtably love their dogs, see a lab like Romeo and think its ok for their dogs to be overweight
I feel an awful lot of dogs each week, at least 50% of the working breeds are obese, I'd say the proportion is higher with the toy breeds.
I do like the way the KC are now targeting the inherent problems in each breed, the trouble is that unless a breed actually wins its group then the general public don't see the dog properly and what it should be bred to as a standard. There are still a lot of breeders who are breeding their stock to sell and not show, the general public will just go on it having the right papers etc..
I bet there's a proper surge in polish lowland sheepdogs though, where Chanel 4 on commission from adaptil over and above the ad fee?
Mind I'm not sure that just making a dog, such as the King Charles, win because it'd help the breed in the publics eyes is the right way to run te greatest dog show in the world, and his forum isn't the right place for me to rant either, I think we are all talking to the converted
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Im afraid I thought the lab was hideous. It did look overweight, and if it wasnt, and the fat look was not fat but just extreme large bones and flaps of flesh/skin, then as a breeding trend then it is a trend that has gone too far IMO, it looked like it was wearing a sumo fat suit...... I certainly wouldnt want any dog of mine to look like that.
It's a funny thing but I always think top show dogs look fat, I know they're not, but they always look fatter than I like them, I think it's because their frames are different to the average, and that's most breeds, KC border collies always look too small to me, I've got a farm dog who's big and an isds dog who's tall and very athletic, not at all like the fluffy one who won the breed
And Annie :trophy: well done you & belle
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If you look closely at the video - and know what you are looking for - you will see that what was rippling under the skin were muscles not fat. Videos and photos can be deceptive. I was there and saw him.
Im sure you're right, however, I dont think it is an attractive sight at all, its supposed to be a lab not a Dogue de Bordeaux, and also think that a lot of lab owners will see that and will think it is ok for their lab to look like that when in their case it will be fat.
Just an opinion :-)
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Strongly built, short coupled, very active; broad in skull, broad and deep through chest and ribs; broad and strong over loins and hindquarters. Chest of good width and depth, with well-sprung barrel ribs. Level topline. Loins wide, short coupled and strong.
http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/services/public/breed/display.aspx?id=2048 (http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/services/public/breed/display.aspx?id=2048)
This dog was exactly what it says above - he is broad not fat. Believe me there was very little spare fat on him. You weren't there, I was. Opinions should be based on hard fact.
Here is Belle with her rosettes. Thanks, Bionic!
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I am guided by you in the subjects of whether it meets the breed standard and how fat it actually is.
But im afraid not on matters of aesthetics, that is something based on perception of what pleases the eye which is always subjective. I am allowed to have an opinion and to say I think it looks awful, even if it is the epitome of the breed standard and all bone and muscle and no fat. You are entitled to say it looks lovely!!
IMO it looks awful, and we shall agree to disagree on that
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Breed standards are one thing and personal choice another, good job we do not have breed standards for choosing a partner :innocent:
I loved Romeo, but if you do not like the look of something, no amount of saying thats how they should be would pursuade anyone, well not me, after all, there are a lot of people that do not like fat humans either but I am fine with that as I am one! :innocent:
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BH loved him, I'm with the "he looked fat (though he obviously wouldn't have been) and people will think it's ok for their pet labs to look like that" brigade, I'm afraid.
Do remember, though, that they say the TV camera adds half-a-stone to a person; presumeably it has a similar effect on dogs, and we who saw him only on the telly won't have seen him as Annie saw him.
I have mixed feelings about the "dual purpose / keeping the show dogs" working issue.
On the one hand, I hate to see pet-ified dogs in the ring who couldn't do a day's work if they tried - but the fact is, a true working dog in the average pet home is an overweight, overfed, hyped up, under-exercised, head case. IMO. ;)
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I was so disgusted when I saw the German Shepherd that I gave up watching Crufts. Well done Annie on doing so well. You must be very proud. :thumbsup:
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Sabrina, I thought the German Shepherd was too low at the back and potential hip problems went through my mind!!
I also cannot remember the breed with the dreadlocks, to me it looked like it could not go for proper dog walks unless Shaun like a sheep, its tail dragged and all those locks must have weighed a ton, I used to have a few dred locked friends in Leics, they told me how heavy they were, also a work college had one of the same breeds, like Dougal from The Magic Roundabout? I did not catch or hear the name and not sure if it is the ones I google!!!
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SITN - My father has true working labs from probably the most well known/ successful line of working labs in this country. When he had more dogs they were part outdoor/part house dogs but now he only has 2 they are kept as house dogs. No problems. Many of the gamekeepers etc that he knows also kept working retrievers/ spaniels as house dogs. I suppose any dog, working or not, can get fat or develop problems if fed incorrectly or not exercised. Can only speak of gundogs though as no direct experience of other "working" breeds.
When it comes to whether many of the gundogs are truly dual purpose I think it depends on your definition of "working" and your expectations. When I said flatties are dual purpose it was a bit :-J . Look at the breeds winning A.V. field trials and you will see which breed is capable of reaching very high standards. Of course there are exceptions but in general it is the working lab. When I picked up my flattie the breeder said she also worked them and could show me what they could do. She was mainly into showing but worked in order that she could fully qualify them as champions. Oh dear :o .
My father had some success in A.V trials with flatties but eventually moved to the good old working lab.
Okay now I'm going to :sofa: .
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Sabrina, I thought the German Shepherd was too low at the back and potential hip problems went through my mind!!
I also cannot remember the breed with the dreadlocks, to me it looked like it could not go for proper dog walks unless Shaun like a sheep, its tail dragged and all those locks must have weighed a ton, I used to have a few dred locked friends in Leics, they told me how heavy they were, also a work college had one of the same breeds, like Dougal from The Magic Roundabout? I did not catch or hear the name and not sure if it is the ones I google!!!
Hungarian puli & pomadore like I said before are the dreadlocked dogs, puli's are amazing dogs they are also herding dogs & do well in agility, pomadores are the bigger ones and I know little about them.
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in the hills, my Labs would love to work more ;) a friend is making a special effort to train my Chocolate Lab as there are not many used in the gun dog world, mainly as chocolate ones have a bad reputation as there are less of them so not so much choice re breeding, she has a lot of show labs in her pedigree but is or could be brilliant gun dog, no messing, no nonsense just fetch and bring it to your hand, just got to get her working on jumping over or under things, my Yellow one is fantastic but she is a bit fussy about carrying things too far, its funny as she lets my chocoate lab carry stuff then takes it off her, my older Lab is from great working stock but not trained at all, she will retrieve but never really has been trained. We have some wonderful help from a very well known trainer/breeder who loves our pups, so much so that he actualy sold 2 of our pupsto friends of his, one is now a pampered posh pet the other works in St Andrews or will do and his owner is a Billionaire, I have met his game keeper but thats the only contact but hope to get some good photos as he is a cracker of a dog!! I think our dogs are good all rounders, but they would go stir crazy if they did not get enough stimulus unlike me!!
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:thumbsup: yup a Puli, thanks, thats been playing on my mind, with them you cannot tell which end until you feed them!!! :thumbsup:
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SITN - My father has true working labs from probably the most well known/ successful line of working labs in this country. When he had more dogs they were part outdoor/part house dogs but now he only has 2 they are kept as house dogs. No problems. Many of the gamekeepers etc that he knows also kept working retrievers/ spaniels as house dogs. I suppose any dog, working or not, can get fat or develop problems if fed incorrectly or not exercised. Can only speak of gundogs though as no direct experience of other "working" breeds.
ith, homes with gamekeepers / huntin' shootin' fish' types aren't what I meant - not "average pet homes" at all!
It's the everyday working family, who "like to have a pet dog, it's good for the kids", but don't realise how much stimulation and how little food (especially high protein "working dog" food) their usually under-exercised pooch needs.
Like all generalisations, it's wrong in a lot of cases (and I know there are lots of really good owners who do keep their dogs active, stimulated and trim) but as a generalisation, homes on a housing estate with inexperienced owners are not the most suitable for working breeds. IMO.
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homes on a housing estate with inexperienced owners are not the most suitable for working breeds. IMO.
Certainly where a lot of bad behaviors develop when sold to people with no or little knowledge of the breeds, especially with the more difficult to look after high end working dogs. I was so saddened to see a beautiful lab just being let out to go for his own walk, that's the attitude some people have, they want a nice looking dog like any of us would but without the responsibility.
As with anything, fashions in dogs etc can be bought on a whim like a car without knowing what you are letting yourself in for, that's the reason I chose a Lab and not am keen on having another terrier, they are too much for ME to handle, there are lots of dog breeds I love but know they are not for me!!
I often smile at dog threads as like some others on here, I worked all my working life with problem families who could not look after thier children, shame there is not so much passion about children!!
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For sale in my local gumtree last week, poodle cross collie jack russell puppies. £600. Soon be no pure bred dogs if this keeps up. :innocent:
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:o
I don't understand the trend for these crosses but they seem really popular. My mum spotted someone advertising for a lab. x collie puppy ie. looking for one. Maybe there are plus points for them. ???
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I don't understand the trend for these crosses but they seem really popular. My mum spotted someone advertising for a lab. x collie puppy ie. looking for one. Maybe there are plus points for them. ???
Hybrid vigour and a whole lot less snobbery.
I know that crossing two breeds doesn't guarantee no inherited defects but as a generalisation it is likely to reduce the probability and/or severity, especially if the two breeds have different inherited problems.
And whilst crossing two breeds could result in an individual with the temperament quirks of both parents, it often gives the better of the two halves.
I had a lab x collie, and knew another, and both were good eaters and 'good do-ers', loyal, fantastic with children, energetic but not hyper, and clever. Both chased sheep, of course, but so long as the owner doesn't live in sheep country (neither of us did at the time), that can be managed! :D Both had the lab double coat, which was a bit of a downer. (Intentional pun - couldn't resist ;))
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Designer dogs give me a living!
The amount if cockerpoos, jackapoos, sprockets and labradoodles I see is amazing, I see next to no poodles though, and people are paying upto £1500 for these dogs, it astounds me, mind they all get a nice teddy cut, cos thats wat the owner wants
I'm not sure there's anything wrong with theses designer dogs, after all I own an original designer dog, he's a long dog, saluki x greyhound, mind I'm not sure anyone would part with £1500 for him, he's a bit thick after all
And as for dog theft, people round here, in the good old days wen lurches where proper working dogs, used to get them nicked and they changed hands for £400 plus (20 years ago)
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I did see a pug and beagle cross that was very cute, I quite fancied that and my brother in law is after a poodle spaniel cross, of course if people want to pay those prices that's their choice, and you get a designer dog, could go badly wrong if you were not careful :innocent: I mean you could get a poodle crossed with a mastif and end up with a very heavy dog with spindly legs, big muscly head and curls....ha ahaha :roflanim:
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:roflanim: That made me laugh .... what a thought.
Met a labradoodle ... is that what you call them ??? on holiday once. She was huge and so friendly .... a real bundle of joy. Her owner said she was very lively but adorable.
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Happygl, I think tat cross is known as a bugle... There should be a big book of made up ase fr these made up dogs, I pride myself on being abe to identify most breeds, I've got to say I Avnet a clue most of the time and end up asking
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Apologies - I appear to have list the ability to communicate in any known language, must earn to type, no learn not earn, oh I give up.......
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Lost not list
Sorry
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when I use my I pad it puts all sorts of rubbish that I do not intend to post, yest it was a bugle, nice and clever little dog, I bet they are hard to train and beagles or any hound run off at the slightest sent!!!!
It takes all sorts and its all sorts we get!!! When I was a little girl I think it was considered very posh to have a pedigree dog now its reversed!!