The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: Btrobe on June 20, 2009, 06:03:03 pm
-
Does anyone know what roxazyme G2 is? it is an ingredient of layers pellets and I would be grateful for any advice.
Thanks
Brenda
-
ROXAZYME® G2 contains an enzyme complex derived from
Trichoderma longibrachiatum. It has been developed especially to
complement the digestive enzymes of pigs and poultry, so that the
non-starch polysaccharides (NSP) in cereals and legumes are broken
down into simpler molecules, which the animals can digest and utilize
sounds a bit high tech
-
I wonder when it was that chickens need an additive to be able to digest grain ::)
I gave up feeding pellets a few years ago as I like to know what I'm eating when I have an egg or a chicken dinner.
The crap that goes into poultry pellets and mash is for the commercial industries benefit where the birds are locked in and cannot get out on grass and free-range to do what chickens have being doing for hundreds of years thats foraging.
I have not noticed any difference in egg production,hatchability or weight gain and the birds are healthy and full of vitality.
What ever you feed an animal comes out in the eggs or meat and I for one don't want to be feeding my kids on industrial chemicals because it's the norm.
We have been led to believe that without pellets the birds will not lay or fatten and be all the poorer for it...Total load of rubbish.
Just read the lable on your next bag of feed and see what they are putting in it and have a think about what your eating.
-
So what should I feed mine on - they are in a sand floored run for most of the time as I have dogs that would retrieve them - not kill them but they don't like it lol. They get out to my half acre garden for 2 hours every day.
Thanks
-
feed them what you want to feed them. the pellets may not be the most organic route but it helps with a balanced diet. if your chucks have limited chance to hunt for food then it maybe best to keep feeding it to them. or you will need to start doing some heavy studying on the dietry needs of hens. mixed corn by it self is not a replacement food. http://www.lionsgrip.com/nutrition.html (http://www.lionsgrip.com/nutrition.html) its not easy to know whats best to but don't rule any feed system out unless you can give them a adequate diet.
-
I always make sure it's non GM, and they get veg as well so I'll just carry on as before then. Should I give them mixed grain as well or just the layers pellets?
-
hello Annie,
what to feed ?. This is one for the individual really. Just about everyone will have different views and thoughts on what is and isn't ok to feed their animals. Like with growing vegetables , why grow veg if you are going to cover them in every pesticide and weed killer known to man ? just buy them from the super market and save all the work . The ones there already have all that crap on/in them !! I want to grow veg that is free of all that poison and I am willing to put in the effort to do so . I am trying to eat food as fresh as I can, and as clean and free from so called SAFE? chemicals , as I can . I also want to feed any animals the same way , why rear any animal for food, using commercial feed stuff , with all the crap they put in there. It was only a short time ago we were told it was perfectly safe to feed our cattle and sheep DEAD CATTLE and SHEEP!!!! What did we end up with BSE !!!! It all boils down again to big companies trying to make more and more money for less and less . They want cheap protein , that is the main problem . They care not where they get it really as long as it is the right price. Going the clean whole food route is hard work and can cost money . It boils down to, you pays your money and you takes your choice. But what IS the point in keeping animals and feeding them all the safe? ingredients that we are told they need to survive . This all reminds me of the film Soylent Green .
They say that most GM ingredients are stated as such on food ? Well I doubt that can really be true, as I have read that some 95% of soya grown in the USA is GM or GM contaminated ( weren't we told that this couldn't happen ?) So as soon as you see anything has soya in you then have to find out where it came from . Then you have to find out where the seed came from . Sadly you will then , most likely, find that it came from a big seed company that is converting the world to GM by any means it can .....the company begins with an M ....they are selling very cheap seed to third world countries , GM seed. There are reports out there that some 60-80% of world soya may now be GM contaminated. I even read that in rice, human genes have been used in them !! ( trials in 2007) whats wrong with that ? it must be safe !! otherwise they wouldn't do it !! would they ?
cheers
Russ
-
I always make sure it's non GM, and they get veg as well so I'll just carry on as before then. Should I give them mixed grain as well or just the layers pellets?
i would they love it. flaked maize goes down very well and any worms that you find digging are always gratefully received.
-
Ask yourself this.
What were chickens living on before they came up with pelleted feed.If the birds then managed to breed and lay eggs around all the farms and cottages in the country how come they need all this stuff to live nowadays.
It's another con trick and people are brainwashed by people who don't know any better.Poultry keepers used to give birds meat and fish meal as a protein supplement until our illustrious goverment banned the use of swill etc and we all know how they have the interests of the public in mind.
I feed Wheat,Rolled barley and cut maize.Twice a week they get cod-liver oil in the feed and all the water contains Cider vinegar.
As soon as the chicks hatch they get Cider Vinegar and that lowers the ph in the gut...no cocci or microplasma can get a hold if the gut is low on the ph scale.
I do feed chick crumbs until the birds are almost feathered up and they go onto wheat,rolled barley and porridge oats.
I give clover about the same time as I take them off crumbs and get them out on grass as soon as they are big enough and fearthered up to keep warm.(delayed if the weathers cold).
There is no downside to this it's a natural way to feed birds.
Grass tips hold around 21% protein if cut on a regular basis.
-
thats fine but the person who asked the question has them mainly on sand. without extra protein there diet will be low in lots of trace chemicals. the traditional diet will work but if you have the red hen layers then any reduction in protein etc will impact on egg production. This may sound like a dirty word but the less eggs the less profit. again its what you think is best for your hens. there is no harm mixing your feed sources and it gives them a varied diet.
-
Thanks, everyone, lots of food for thought there. I let them out round the garden for at least two hours every day, and they get a lot of raw fruit and veg from neighbours - OK that will be from the supermarket mostly I'd guess, I feed them 110gms layers pellets per bird per day(more for the ducks), but will feed mixed grain from now on and give them cider vinegar too. They get citricidal occasionally and are wormed regularly with Vermx, and also at least once a week have porridge with honey and milk in it. So thank you again, everyone.
-
Thanks for all your advice. I worry about what my hens eat because if me and the family eat the eggs, we are eating the enzymes as well and everything else that's put in the feed. I read a while ago that some layers pellets may contain hormones so I started to feed them on organic layers pellets (very expensive) but after reading advice from Castle Farm on another thread, I started giving them wheat, rolled barley and cut maize and they seem to do fine. I also give them cod liver oil or linseed oil and put cider vinegar in their water. They get all of my kitchen scraps too. My hens have a large run which they've scratched up so there's no grass anymore. I give them clover and grass cuttings when I can to compensate. They love this. I also collect dandylion leaves when I find them. I let them out into the rest of the large garden ( which has a lawn) for a couple of hours a day. They don't seem to take any harm with this natural diet and I can't tell if they are laying less. Even if they were, then it would be more natural for them. I always worry that they are getting enough greens, especially, as they have no grass in their pen so I occasionally mix in some organic pellets or organic mash. This way it works out at about the same cost as ordinary pellets. By the way, I must say that this is an excellent forum with lots of experience which very much helps amateurs like myself. I have had hens now for about a year and love keeping them.
Brenda
-
you could also grow some comfrey if you had a small area spare ? if you had an area 10-12' x 10-12' , you could grow 25-30 plants . This would give you somewhere in the region of 1lb-1.5lb of fresh comfrey every day. You could put all your poultry manure direct onto the comfrey bed too. You can cut comfrey from say April to september ,about 4 or 5 cuts in total . This could give you anywhere between 200lb - 450lb of comfrey per year, and comfrey is about 22% protein ,plus it has many trace elements etc in it . If you get the bocking 14 variety , you need not worry about it seeding as it is sterile and will only spread by root cutting . Any spare comfrey can go onto the compost heap , or chop it up and put direct back onto the comfrey bed. But once the chickens are used to it , you won't have much to spare. If you only have an ornamental garden , you can still grow comfrey , as it is a pretty plant and will attract many bees when it is in flower, and you can grow a few little clumps of it here and there. ONLY do this with the bocking 14 variety though ....otherwise you could end up with a HUGE comfrey garden. ::) ;D
cheers
Russ
-
i dont quite know how to ask this but does anyone have a particular recipe
for their own homemade mix of hen/duck food,
i dont have a clue where to start!!!!!!!!
xxxxxxxxx thanks xxxxxxxxx
xxxxxx gem xxxxxx
-
good idea. green anything will aways go down well. unless your planning on going organic then i would spend your money on a better quality free range layers or growers. i won't mention the kitchen scrap issue again but keep it green and they will be happy. thou having to chase them off the odd dead starling shows they are really not fussy. if they get into your veg patch you will soon know what they like.
the cod liver oil if your going organic would possibly be an issue. would it not taint the meat if the were meat birds.
-
would hemp oil not do the same job as cod liver oil ?
-
Sometimes ignprance is bliss. You think by keeping a few free range birds and feed them the same as everyone else you are eating the best of eggs/bird - so not the case. ???
-
"I feed Wheat,Rolled barley and cut maize.Twice a week they get cod-liver oil in the feed and all the water contains Cider vinegar.
As soon as the chicks hatch they get Cider Vinegar and that lowers the ph in the gut...no cocci or microplasma can get a hold if the gut is low on the ph scale.
....there are no downsides to this as its a natural way to feed birds".......eh?
I think you might want to step off of your pallet box & consider how exactly cod-liver oil & cider vinegar is a natural supplement for chickens. Given that you are all for them rooting/foraging for their own food, surely leaving them be is your preferred option. Since when did land birds that can't fly go fishing for cod? Oh & cod are benthic feeders therefore are in effect the bin-rakers (in the nicest possible sense!) of the oceans, along with shell-fish & are therefore much more prone to eating contaminated protein as opposed to pelagic fish such as mackeral & herring.
Oh and last time I looked wheat, barley & maize have all been bred to produce maximum crop for minimum coverage, so whilst I think your sentiment is right, your argument is flimsy at best.
-
I will be growing a wheat variety from the 1860's era, 'Square Heads Master'. So although it was ,even then ,a result of selective breeding , it is from a time before the modern short heavy cropping types. I will also be growing spelt wheat, and that goes back to the times when man was just starting to farm !!! At the moment I am only growing a modern type of barley , but I shall try to get an earlier one if I can . I haven't looked into old varieties of barley at all yet , looks like a job for this afternoon/evening!!. I will also be growing a small amount of rye , mainly for the straw , to stuff horse collars with !. This, in the main, is the same type that has been grown for many many years , so I will just be growing a small amount of whatever I can get hold of . The SHM wheat , is mainly for the straw to use as thatch , but all seed will be used first for me, in bread making etc, and then as animal feed . The barley will in the main be just for animal feed and straw for bedding etc. I will also grow some oats for use by me and as an animal feed . Any stock , be it chickens , cattle , sheep , pigs or horses, will be fed this home grown, free from any additives and definitely free from GM ,food. I will also use cider vinegar in water as it does have many good health benefits without pumping my stock full of chemicals, plus it is as natural as you can get in my opinion , fermented fruit juice basically !!. I wouldn't bother with cod liver oil as I hated that crap when I was a kid and wouldn't make anything take it ....but hemp , which I will be growing for the fibre , not the other sort of hemp !!!!! , will provide an oil that is almost exactly as humans require , so I use it now myself and I think it has mostly the same benefits as CLO. I will also be growing mangles , very large beetroots really , for livestock feed along with cabbage , carrots etc and alfalfa/lucerne and comfrey. I will only be getting any animals, as and when I can feed them from my home grown harvest. There will be times when an animal will need a vet and then they will get whatever they need for good health etc. But other than that I will be feeding both my animals and myself with totally organic, chemical and GM free, food . One thing I can't do is stop pollution falling from the sky in the rain . So whatever there may be in the rain will be in my soil , nothing I can do about that , YET !!!! ;D This whole system is my way of doing things , not everyone would want to do it this way , but if I can ?, I will !!!
I too, can tend to jump up on my pallet box ...( although very rarely ) ::) ;D , although I hope I do it for the right reasons in the main ..... ::)
cheers
Russ
-
then i take it your going to be doing the old 4 year rotation. your missing peas and beans and a years fallow. what acreage do you have. we could grow an old type of barley but wheat is out for us were to far north. cabbages are a good idea so are fodder crops but mangles are they not lower in food quality than turnips or swedes. we have some really tough Shetland kale that give greens through out winter the chickens turkeys and geese loved them. i would still check on you vit levels and minerals make sure your not going to be missing anything. we have 25 acres but only a couple that could grow anything. Sounds like your planning total selfsufficency and that great but most just don't have the land or time. the wife is planning to use our Shetland ponies to run a light prow and harrow system. don't you need a licence to grow hemp. ive no idea just wondered.
-
yes it will be a sort of 4 year rotation, with the fallow year growing alfalfa or maybe mustard as a green manure crop. Peas and beans are in the plan it is just hard to mention everything, a prattle on enough as it is.... All veg will be old named varieties and seed will be saved from year to year . The mangles should provide enough feed quality plus they grow huge compared to the others and they also grow better for me than the others. Vitamin and mineral levels should be ok , I have checked all the veg and other crops I am growing for these and the levels would seem to cover all my needs. I only have just under 6 acres, but have access to another 26 to do as I want with , plus in the region of 30 or so wasteland for growing willow and norfolk reed etc. Total self sufficiency wasn't on the cards really ,I did that 30 odd years ago when I moved to Wales . But this time I just got so fed up with companies and the government fiddling with my food , for their own gain all the time , that I have ended up here again lol. I will be growing all my own fruit trees , apples, pears , plums , greengages, even a nectarine maybe? plus some nut trees , all my own veg , even my own rice both plain longrain and basmati , as well as a pudding type later on . I have my own spring , with clean water , plus a river going through the land so that is all ok . I will be growing Norfolk Reed (Phragmites Australis) , fern/saw sedge (cladium Mariscus) , Yellow Flag Iris (Iris pseudacorus ) and Bullrushes (Typha latifolia) as greywater filters and the Norfolk reed and Saw sedge will also be used as thatching material. I am also growing cotton bushes and linseed and hemp for the fibre , to use for string , rope and for cloth and shall be growing a few tea bushes to make my own cuppa. Sheep will provide all the wool I need ( I can get enough wool for free if I want it ) so I will be SS in cloth etc too. I can already spin and weave and I used to work as an industrial hand operated machine knitter , plus my mum was a seamstress and taught me how to sow , I have 4 hand operated sowing machines, plus a spinning wheel, the plans to make a large loom, all I need is the knitting machine now. I also keep bees , so they will provide all the sweetness I need along with wax for candles, polish etc . Hemp did need a licence at one time then they changed it so you just needed to inform your local plod shop you were growing it . Last time I asked in a plod shop they were not in the least interested, and said grow what you want mate !! just NOT the other type..lol. I will be getting mechanical power from the river via a water wheel . This will also provide a small amount of leccy . The willow will supply all the charcoal I need for my forge and small foundry, as well as material for baskets and wood for the fire. Scrap metal will supply all the metal I need for the forge and foundry and local trees will provide all the wood I need to make furniture and waggons etc. I too have horses which I can use to work the land I do also have a huge 4x4 tractor for the big stuff , but that is just if I need it . I also have an old Lister SOM genny . This runs off of any oil you have really . I have used diesel , heating oil , sunflower oil , rapeseed oil , old engine oil and old cooking oil . I will grow my own sunflower to supply oil for cooking and for fuel for the genny. All these things are slowly dropping into place now , so sometime in the next year to year and a half , I will be stepping back in time , all assuming swine flu leaves me be ??? lol . As for time , well all that is what I will be doing with my time ...should be enough to keep me quiet ...?
cheers
Russ
-
Wellyboots
I don't have a pallet, just the good sense to feed my birds a diet that has been tried and tested for many many years.
I have used this feeding method for at last 5 years and have been keeping poultry for almost 50 years.
How long have you had poultry???
Carry on feeding your birds whatever you want, I am not asking you to give up on your pellets or start using Cod-liver oil and Cider vinegar.
I shall let the other members of this forum decide if it's a load of hot air or common sense.
-
whats the costings. i cant grow most of the stuffy you feed. so if i was to buy a good mixed grain with something to replace the maize. what would this cost per 20kg sacks. mixed grain is costing us more than our normal pellets. i agree they do bung in loads of stuff and i limit what i feed them i refuse to use medicated pellets have we all read the warnings on the label. i agree i don't see the need to chuck enzymes in for the sake of better food conversion. i could understand if i was having 100s of thousands but most of us small scale producers don't need to be that hard. what are your birds i can believe that the old utility birds would be happy but the more modern mutated egg layers which i use are more demanding in what they are fed.
does rice not need sub tropical temps to grow. global warming has really kicked in if you can grow it in wales. i wish that we were not so limited in what we can grow but thats the joy of living so far north.
-
I think rice would need tropical conditions if you wanted to grow it all year round . But I am just after getting one crop a year . So far I have only sown small amounts to trial grow it . Each time slugs have had the lot ....The next lot I will be placing salt around the trays...I will only find out if it matures outside then . I have grown it in a greenhouse before though ....but maybe that doesn't count. There are many different types of rice though , grown in many different areas of the world , so I should be able to find one or two that will grow here.
-
Thanks once again. This thread has developed into something I have been dreaming of doing since the 70's but have never been able to. I would love to try to be self sufficient but have never had the chance either because of work or where I lived. I now have a garden of about a fifth of an acre so I have 24 hens and grow vegetables in the back garden. I have fruit trees and fruit bushes and have recently planted some more trees(cherries and pears). I'm also going to look into keeping bees. I will take on board the planting of comfrey to give the hens their greens - thanks for that. The thought of having 6 acres and doing what Russ is doing sounds wonderful. The trouble is I work away quite a bit ( I have a hen partner who shares the hens and looks after them when I'm away) but I have to pay the mortgage. I've often felt like packing the work in and starting a small holding but have never had the courage. I don't have enough experience etc. I don't think that anyone is standing on on a pallet box thinking they are great. It just sounds to me like they are trying to do the best for their animals and family and I welcome their advice - keep it coming. You are living my dream.
Brenda
-
i would keep the job there is no real money in smallholding.
-
all depends what you want out of life really Paul ?,
I only want a minimal amount of 'STUFF' so I therefore live on very little money. This would be very hard for the average person to get used to , as there is never any money for anything !!! but I get by . When I say the average person , I don't mean that I am better than that ...just that I am used to having far less things than most, and that I am prepared to do without many things in order to live an almost money free way of life, ALMOST !!!! Not saying that my way is right or that anybody else's is wrong , just that I like my life and the simplicity of it , and I don't need to earn £3-4-5-hundred a week to live it !!
cheers
Russ
-
true. but unless your going big scale on something your going to make a loss. pigs are out, cows and sheep are heading the same way. the only thing thats made us money was turkeys and that was close. you still need a good income stream to pay the government,feed yourself and family maintain the home and cover all the expenses of having animals. not forgeting the insurance and transport. just can't see anyone earning a good living off less than a few hundred acres. could be that I'm just pessimistic but being self sufficient would make a big difference.