The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: nic99 on February 21, 2013, 06:10:54 pm
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Was out on my evening dog walk across our fields and discovered some (insert offensive profanity of your choice here) has removed planks of wood from our fencing and used it to make a bridge across a patch of mud. I am so cross, the cheek of some people :rant:
Yes, it is muddy. What do you expect when walking through fields in February?! If you don't want to get mud on your precious shoes, stick to the pavements! You are a guest on our land, please respect our property.
Our land is riddled with rights of way and it is a royal pain in the rear end!
Needless to say, I removed the 'bridge' and we will be nailing it back onto the fence posts at the weekend. Luckily damage to the planks was minimal.
Rant over. I am still cross though.
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We used to walk near Gartmorn and some one we knew had land around that area and we noticed people take seating and bits of fence to make their fires and bar b ques last, I am sure a lot of people do not give things like your fence a second thought, its sad but true, most probably young people on quads as they do that in the forest where I walk, certainly makes life harder and I can understand your rant. Young people here love BMX or similar, they take the concrete slabs of the ancient monument to make jumps! and when it snows, they also throw hard snowballs at the old clock! :innocent: No thought, no value, :innocent:
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Can only empathise. I think I can no longer be surprised by what tourists will do - but then they love to prove me wrong.... ::)
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I just remembered how mortified I was to see asbestos waste tipped in the forest, how wonderful and thought ful was that?
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That is unbelievable. :o
We don't seem to get many "tourists" .... perhaps they don't like Mid Wales. Reading some of the things that go on, I hope they all stay away. Just rude.
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Oh I'm a young person 22 and would never damage a fence or property or have the cheek to roam across others land I know plenty of old people that would ;)
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Yes Sheep Crazy I see old and young, able and infirm walk around the edges of fields on the margins, I'll be glad when single farm payment is stopped and I can plough up to the side of hedges. It's a shame but even when you try to be nice and explain why the margins are there some people are just rude and then when I take my dog for a walk around there garden they threaten me with phoning the police
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Some of them don't think, some of them don't care and some of them resent anyone that's got anything they don't have (however hard they had to work to get it). Let's face it, some people are just plain horrible and the problem with public footpaths is you have them crossing your land when, given the choice, you wouldn't let them through your front gate.
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My ex used to worry me when he insisted on walking through fields of grain because the public footpath went that way. He said that if we went round the edge we would be trespassing. Maybe we would, but what would a farmer prefer - trampled crops or someone going off the footpath to avoid crops?
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Generally, if the farmer would prefer you to walk through the crop, s/he would flail you a path to follow. Otherwise it is generally accepted that you would walk around the perimeter, if possible.
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In theory the farmer is breaking the law by not flailing the path route to keep it passable, so any comeback from either damaging the crop by using the legal route would be zero, as would any comeback from taking the nearest navigable route to the official one.
my preference would be to walk the paths route so that it is still used, otherwise farmer might argue noone uses it, but if that isnt possible due to crops then the local ROW officer would take that up as its a clear breach of the law.
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I usualy walk my dogs in a forest but as its been muddy and icy, I have walked in veriouse places along a disused train track but the last time, I noticed sheep at the start of the walk, although my dogs took no notice I turned around and went to a field near the forest that a lot of people use and blow me, it was being ploughed up so I walked around the edge then again turned around.....the farmer keeps the edge rough as it borders the forest, hope I was not trespassing :innocent:
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In theory the farmer is breaking the law by not flailing the path route to keep it passable, so any comeback from either damaging the crop by using the legal route would be zero, as would any comeback from taking the nearest navigable route to the official one.
I'm not sure that's right, is it? Just because the farmer is in breach of his/her obligations by not keeping a path clear does not, I thought, give a walker the right to commit a different breach, ie, trespass. (I used to be Secretary to our local RoW group when I lived in NW Wiltshire, and that's what the rules were in England at that time.)
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You do not have the right to take any navigable route to the official one :rant:
You have permission to use paths and bridleways restricted byways and byways roads used as public path. There is also something called permissible path this is when you have no right but the landowner grants access.
So now you know where you can walk that is the only place you can walk in the countryside be it across crops ploughed land havested land.. so enjoy the countryside and use those routes.
Landowners do have to work agricultural land and crops do grow, and we are allowed time to do these actions. I'm aware that some farmers chose not to quickly spray/ flail routes but if you have a problem you have the right to moan to the council, it is there responsibility to sort it out, they have a whole department to look after it.
Right to roam this is an act from IIRC 2000 it only refers to areas of 'mountain, moor, heath and down' in addition to registered common land; please note not all uncultivated land is covered. Yes I know the ramblers association would like to publish through the Daily Mail they have won the right to walk everywhere. But pastures and grass land that are for cattle and sheep don't automatically become your personal dog walking field, even if the cattle and sheep aren't there!
Grass margins, these are the strips around fields that government pay for. Grass margins can provide nesting sites for ground-nesting birds such as grey partridges, whitethroats yellowhammers and Corn buntings also insects and mammals these are not sprayed or cultivated and are only tended as per strict rules. Unfortunately some members of the public believe that this is there personal dog walking route, or the only reason farmers keep them is because of wild partridge, and pheasants. (admittedly this does have an influence but for the greater good) However government is strapped for cash we have to pay farmers in Europe to keep pigs in stalls and Tescos HAS to buy it, lucky we don't have a meat scandal! So the payment to keep this strip of land will now fall to those farmers that want to keep those wild partridge or pheasants the other choice of course crop it and pay off the bank manager, but if the dog walkers or just walkers keep the birds away what option is there.
Finally I'm a dog owner and I have walked many miles across country, in this country and others within the UK and the world, my rant is over. Enjoy the countryside keep your dogs on a lead and your feet where they are supposed to be :wave:
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In theory the farmer is breaking the law by not flailing the path route to keep it passable, so any comeback from either damaging the crop by using the legal route would be zero, as would any comeback from taking the nearest navigable route to the official one.
I'm not sure that's right, is it? Just because the farmer is in breach of his/her obligations by not keeping a path clear does not, I thought, give a walker the right to commit a different breach, ie, trespass. (I used to be Secretary to our local RoW group when I lived in NW Wiltshire, and that's what the rules were in England at that time.)
Thats right, if you notice/read the wording I purely was discussing the likelihood of there being comeback (ie legal problems) from doing it in reality, given that the farmer was breaking the law by blocking the official route.
I did not say (and would not say) that there was a legal right to follow the alternative route.I did also recommend taking it up with council ROW officer :-)
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Ok I I'm gonna ask here as it seems there's a lot of knowledgeable folk about and I don't want to be walking anywhere I shouldn't be.
I live in Scotland and have gone on walks collecting hawberries and sloes at the edges of fields. I always stick to the edge of the field. Am I trespassing? I had thought it to be ok as long as there was no signs up saying private property or have I mis-understood? :-\
Dans
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Yes, I do think the person responsible did not even think about the possibility that someone might actually own and want the fence they used to make a bridge. Perhaps they even thought they were being helpful! Further along the path (I assume it is the same person) they have used various large branches and sticks to do the same thing across other muddy patches. I have no problem with this, and in fact welcome it, as it does make it easier to get across. They obviously could not find any spare branches near the first patch so decided to use the fence instead. ::)
The walkers are good and bad for us. We literally get hundreds of people using the footpaths past our house and across our fields on nice days. Most of the time they do not cause a problem and a big positive - they buy lots of eggs! The biggest problem we have is out of control dogs, I had several chickens and ducks killed and mauled in my garden last year and a neighbour lost one of his chickens to a dog just this week. When one walker was confronted about letting her dog run through our garden and chase our chickens we were told the dog was 'just having a bit of fun'. We may be getting sheep soon. That's going to put the wind up their sails!
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Ok I I'm gonna ask here as it seems there's a lot of knowledgeable folk about and I don't want to be walking anywhere I shouldn't be.
I live in Scotland and have gone on walks collecting hawberries and sloes at the edges of fields. I always stick to the edge of the field. Am I trespassing? I had thought it to be ok as long as there was no signs up saying private property or have I mis-understood? :-\
Dans
The law in Scotland is different from England and in Scotland you are generally allowed to walk fields provided it isn't growing a crop (which includes cereals root crops or grass grown for hay once it is above ankle height). Altho i think if there are good tracks on the land it is more courteous to stick to those personally.
Taking the sloes and haw berries I'm not sure of the legalities, personally if you took them from my fields I would be very miffed as I use mine myself. politer to check if the owner is planning to use them if you are taking more than a hatful from a property.
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I just collect from the forests and so do the dogs although its me that gets bitten to bits
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I can't quite understand how anyone can think it is right to go into a farmers field and pick fruits from his hedges without permission.
You wouldn't go into someones back garden and pick apples from their tree, just because you can walk through the field it doesn't mean you own it. :rant:
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To be honest I hadn't thought of it as something the farmer would be wanting. I certainly wouldn't go and the more common fruits but I seem to think of hawberries and sloes differently to cherries and apples. I don't know why, probably due to having not thought it through properly.
The first time we went there it was too late in the season, the first frosts had been and the berries were rotting, I didn't think anything of going the next year and taking a few before the frosts got them.
I've no idea how to check who owns the field. Seeing it in this light I won't return to the field, at least not for foraging and will try and find somewhere else with hawthorn bushes this year.
Dans
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It's more a courtesy thing, legally foraging does have some protection (this is historically so that you dont get transported for stealing a blackberry!) so you are allowed to pick bits and bobs for personal use when walking along footpaths and roadsides etc. the issue comes with Scotlands much wider access code which means you are not just picking along the tracks and paths but going into someone's fields and taking stuff from the fields.
In theory that is still allowed if for personal use, however in terms of fairness and courtesy it is much more borderline as it is quite possible the farmer relies on it for their own personal use. Which is why you should ask first and respect the answer if wanting to harvest ' off track' IMO without exception.
NB you aren't allowed in either England or Scotland to pick anything from anyone else's land without permission if it or the end product if it is to be sold in any way.
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NB you aren't allowed in either England or Scotland to pick anything from anyone else's land without permission if it or the end product if it is to be sold in any way.
So no picking that lovely Welsh Black heifer I saw on a walk the other day then........ :innocent:
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What if a neighbours plum tree over hangs our land significantly and they never come round to ask if they can access it via our fields so all the fruit drops the the ground? are we allowed to snaffle some plums off of it if we are slightly short for our wine recipe during a bad year :innocent: ? not that we have, purely hypothetical of course...and I would suggest to my husband that he knock on their door first and ask if I caught him up there with a ladder....
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What if a neighbours plum tree over hangs our land significantly and they never come round to ask if they can access it via our fields so all the fruit drops the the ground? are we allowed to snaffle some plums off of it if we are slightly short for our wine recipe during a bad year :innocent: ? not that we have, purely hypothetical of course...and I would suggest to my husband that he knock on their door first and ask if I caught him up there with a ladder....
In theory no....although windfalls would go to waste if you didnt use those, and it's amazing how many fall off in even quite a light breeze when someone has switched the vacuum onto reverse and is employing an industrial pressure washer to dislodge the reluctant ones :-DDD.
I think in practice (not legally but in practice) if they don't pick them and they overhang your property then it's fair enough to use them as long as plenty left for the wildlife. After all you would legally unless here's a TPO be able to cut those branches off and return them to the owner which would mean no one would get any.
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I think that, legally, if you pick them, you should hand them back. The easiest thing is to ask the land owner if they mind.
In theory no....although windfalls would go to waste if you didnt use those, and it's amazing how many fall off in even quite a light breeze when someone has switched the vacuum onto reverse and is employing an industrial pressure washer to dislodge the reluctant ones :-DDD.
:roflanim: :roflanim: :roflanim:
Or when you trip and grab a branch to save yourself - several times and a different branch each time.
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I think that, legally, if you pick them, you should hand them back. The easiest thing is to ask the land owner if they mind.
In theory no....although windfalls would go to waste if you didnt use those, and it's amazing how many fall off in even quite a light breeze when someone has switched the vacuum onto reverse and is employing an industrial pressure washer to dislodge the reluctant ones :-DDD.
:roflanim: :roflanim: :roflanim:
Or when you trip and grab a branch to save yourself - several times and a different branch each time.
Asking them would make the most sense really. But supposing (hypothetically again of course) said neighbour really couldn't stand us and has in the past fired display quality rocket fireworks at our lambs and goats, could this alter things? ;D
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You should still ask them. Of course, if they don't hear you because they are several miles away that is hardly your fault.
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pick em at night plums :-J
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Dans, I think its common practice for people to pick fruit from hedges, not sure many big farmers would be going around the hedges collecting the berries but maybe I am wrong and yes, I suppose if that was my field I would be angry as well, but, I mostly go to the forest as I always have the dogs with me. See, another thing I/we did not think was wrong, well too wrong!