The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: mab on February 07, 2013, 10:29:50 pm
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hi all,
I have a stream as the boundary on my land, and at the upstream end, the road crosses the stream. I've noticed the odd dead sheep in the stream before, but when I went down there yesterday, there were 5 sheep (no tags), in various states of decay in just 200yds from the bridge, plus 'remains' of older carcasses.
I don't have any proof of who's dumping them, although my immediate neighbour did see the farmer from up the road jumping back into his car which was stopped on the bridge - and there's no reason for him to be stopping there.
trouble is, as the new guy here, I'm a bit reluctant to start causing trouble for 'old boys' (like to maintain goodwill among the neighbours & all that); but on the other hand I feel that this is unacceptable behavior, and I don't want other peoples dead sheep on my boundary near my sheep (not to mention yesterday morning spent clearing a chest high, 12 foot wide logjam that was causing the stream to flood, which had 2 1/2 dead sheep in it - not my idea of fun :( ).
Also (probably a silly question) I'm not really sure who I should complain to (local council/env' health? animal health/defra?).
Any advice / opinions welcome.
marcus
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Environmental health I would have thought. If you speak to the Police, they would know.
That's totally unacceptable - you don't have to say who's complained, you can blame some townie walkers who were making a fuss ;)
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Animal heath or enviromental services is your best bet......with regards to the neighbours i'd do a wee phone around, something along the lines of "have you had any sheep stolen or go missing, because sheep have been getting dumped at the bridge and im really worried someone is up to something as there tags have been removed"..............that way they know that you know, you appear to be a concerned neighbour and if Animal health get involved its only because you were concerned not because you were accusing anyone :excited:
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i bet the tags have been taken of its Whit folk do to avoid the knacker man and cost very bad
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i bet the tags have been taken of its Whit folk do to avoid the knacker man and cost very bad
indeed - but as most of the farmers seem to have big diggers, if they really want to dispose of them unofficially, why can't they dig a hole and bury them on their own land? >:(
Alas Holz, I don't have their phone no.s so I'd have to make personal visits - I'm not sure I could do 'innocent enquiry' to their faces - I'm not that good an actor ;D .
OK that's 2 votes for env health/services - I think I will have to make that call. I think I'll take some pics and monitor the stream more closely too - we're just about entering the lambing season here...
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HI Mab - this isnt very pleasant behaviour but I just wondered what sort of impact you thought it will have on you or your sheep?
Is the stream flowing toward your land or away from it where the sheep are being dumped?
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That seems to be quite a lot of dead sheep at one time ..... I would be a bit concerned about what they died of too....... definitely report .....
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I would have loaded them up and deposited them on his driveway without saying a word, he would be verry reluctant to try that again, Most farmers just bury them under their muck heaps anyway.
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There are farms affected by Foot and mouth currently, todays news. This behaviour is just out of order. Get onto AH and environmental health asap
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There are farms affected by Foot and mouth currently, todays news. This behaviour is just out of order. Get onto AH and environmental health asap
No plums its an old clip of news TIz has posted! read it thro it dates back to the original outbreak years ago
Mandy :pig:
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Really? omg I panicked!!! TIZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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POST NOW REMOVED ........
Got the adrenalin going this morning , who needs coffee when you have me...?
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;D such a relief that its not current news though and in a way has shifted me into a positive thinking mode, makes us so glad that no matter how difficult the mud, rain, hay prices etc has been - we DO NOT have FMD, thank goodness. Life could be unbearable.
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As far as not being seen to be causing trouble, The local farmers probably wouldn't think it's acceptable behaviour either, Can you chat innocently concerned to one or two you know better and they'll warn the other guy off doing it again.
If it's anything like around here the words already gone around before you've walked back home.
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Definitely report it. The 98% of farmers who do follow the rules would support doing the same thing.
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:fc: :fc: I'm not quite sure from your post who's land they are on? ( I know they are in a stream but is it your stream or a neighbours?) Because whoever's land it is can get into trouble with the authorities for having decaying carcasses there. If its your land then forget about upsetting the neighbours - get it reported asap, otherwise you may be prosecuted. If its not your land then who it belongs to would be the obvious person to speak to. Decaying corpses in a water course is very serious and the Environment agency need to know. Hope you haven't caught anything nasty from being in the water with them :fc:
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Like Shep said - a decaying sheep in water that is being used is really serious. My mum was seriously ill about 20 years ago - after some investigation it was discovered a sheep had fallen into a well that supplied the house but was not on their land. It prompted Dad to drill their own borehole and have their own supply.
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Good - I felt I should report it and I'm convinced now. Certainly don't want to be prosecuted for other peoples dumped sheep.
Talking to the neighbours whom I don't suspect is a good idea - as you say, they word'll get around. :thumbsup:
Shep. :
the middle of the stream IS the boundary between my land and another farmer (not the one I suspect) - But I'm definitely going to talk to him - the bridge it at the upstream end of my land so the dead sheep get carried along my boundary.
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Like Shep said - a decaying sheep in water that is being used is really serious. My mum was seriously ill about 20 years ago - after some investigation it was discovered a sheep had fallen into a well that supplied the house but was not on their land. It prompted Dad to drill their own borehole and have their own supply.
my thought precisely. many people have private water so things like that can be life threatening.
also think of the germs that your sheep may catch cos these sheep died from something.
report it asap as its too close to home and you may get the blame.
as for being the new one - start off as you mean to go on - we were far too soft with our neighbours in the beginning and they took the mickey constantly until a sheep was killed by our neighbour. that would never have happened if we were firm from the start.
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well so much for reporting the problem;
I started with the welsh assembly agri no. as that's the first I found:
They said it was not their dept and passed me onto Animal health.
OK, so I explained to AH about the dumped sheep and their response? "if someone's dumped the sheep on your property then you are responsible for their disposal".
That's it - they aren't going to do anything about it except tell me to pay for the disposal :rant: , so I asked what should be done about stopping future dumping and they suggest I talk to the council officer who deals with fly-tipping.
I guess I'm going to have to solve the problem myself then - maybe you're right Scarlet', I will have a chat with the neighbours, and if they know I suspect them, that's their problem - goodwill be dammed!
I wonder if a sign by the bridge saying cctv in operation would help...
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mab, youve just got to step up and go and confront him, its your land, hes doing something bloody bang out of order. you can hardly piss anyone off, by you stopping it. youll probably find people will respect you all the more for standing up to him, maybe hes dropping them there BECAUSE he thinks your a soft touch?
a bit of 4x2 is optional....
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Could you report it to the police and ask their advise? Dumping sheep is illegal so they should at least have a view on it.
Could the sheep you found in the blocked stream have fallen in during the flooding, how steep are the stream banks?
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mab, youve just got to step up and go and confront him, its your land, hes doing something bloody bang out of order. you can hardly piss anyone off, by you stopping it. youll probably find people will respect you all the more for standing up to him, maybe hes dropping them there BECAUSE he thinks your a soft touch?
You're probably right but, as I don't KNOW it's him I don't want to come out and accuse him - but I will try and let him know I suspect him
...a bit of 4x2 is optional....
don't tempt me ;D
Could the sheep you found in the blocked stream have fallen in during the flooding, how steep are the stream banks?
There are a few places where they could get out. They probably went in during the floods - certainly if one was thrown in now there probably isn't enough water to carry it far from the bridge. But if they did fall in by themselves, they managed to cut their eartags off on the way in too.
Trouble is I'm now a bit wary of reporting to EA or police in case I get it in the neck for polluting the stream.
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I would report it to police saying that eartags have been cut off and so you think they may have been stolen....that might get their attention....
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I bet the environment agency won't fob you off as badly as animal health :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant:
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sepa (or english equivalent) are supposedly strict on water pollution.
thats terrible that they havent took you seriously.
push the sheep onto the other farmer boundary - just in case.
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Well I may try EA, though I'll be a bit cagey about who/where I am until I'm sure they're interested in finding the culprit.
push the sheep onto the other farmer boundary - just in case.
I was thinking that, but it seems a bit unfair on that neighbour (he can't be the culprit as he doesn't have sheep). But better out (of the water) than in, certainly - the fox & crows should dispose of them more quickly that way.
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Dumping them in a watercourse shows complete and utter disrespect for who evers problem it is going to be - I agree.
Are there any people renting land in the area? Is it just off a thoroughfare road?
People dont normally s**t on the doorstep unless they are making a point or stupid - or both.
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People dont normally s**t on the doorstep unless they are making a point or stupid - or both.
i agree.
around here - each flock is quite different in breed/quality to the experienced eye, and id reckon itd be easy to idenify the flock they came from within a 10mile radius.
i couldnt imagine a proper farmer dumping the bodies when he could bury them. its not that expensive to get them collected either.
Well I may try EA, though I'll be a bit cagey about who/where I am until I'm sure they're interested in finding the culprit.
our animal health want my holding number before they will speak to me at all on the fone.
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Dumping them in a watercourse shows complete and utter disrespect for who evers problem it is going to be - I agree.
Are there any people renting land in the area? Is it just off a thoroughfare road?
People dont normally s**t on the doorstep unless they are making a point or stupid - or both.
I don't think I've pee'd anyone off yet, and I'm learning that dumped carcasses may be the norm around here - someone dumped a steer on the road nearby not long before I came here apparently ::) ; the council removed it.
don't know about anyone renting, but then I don't have much local knowledge yet. My 'prime suspect' is a local welshman and I don't think he's renting.
As for i.d.-ing the breed; well I don't have an experience eye, except for a few breeds that I know, and after a sheep's been lying dead in the water it doesn't make 'em any easier to id.
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Ring the police say you've been out with the dog and theres a load of dead sheep been dumped in the river with their ear tags obviously ripped out and hopefully they'll take a dim view and push the appropiate buttons.
I can't believe AH were so unhelpful i think EA is your best option, polluting water course angle, they're responsible for that.
Hope you get it sorted, very horrid.
mandy :pig:
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This behavior is utterly disgusting and should be stomped out immediately report it to the EH.
you mention cleaning out the stream, what have you done with the carcasses have you kept them as evidence or have they been removed and disposed of?
But you must report this to EH and to the Rivers Authority as pollution of our streams not only effect you but also all those down stream.
Tala
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I would call the Environment Agency - they will look in to the matter.
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Well, I've talked to most of the neighbours over the weekend; everyone seems sincerely dismayed and some have offered to help (dragging bodies out of stream) which is nice.
As it turns out, some of the dumps may be a bit older than I initially thought - a sheep lying upright underwater looks quite intact until you pull it over, and I don't really have any idea how long it takes them to rot underwater in winter. Still, at lease those were easier to drag out than the recent ones. Dead waterlogged sheep are HEAVY.
Will call EA once I've got rid of them.
m
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OH and I once pulled a drowning sheep out of a medieval moat when out for a walk in Somerset...I can vouch for the heavy bit, esp when still alive and struggling!
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And when you've sorted it all out, make a complaint about Animal Health - that's disgraceful that they were so unhelpful.
I'd talk to the Police - I think, if someone is damaging your water supply, ie polluting it, it could be criminal damage and Environmental Health.
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And when you've sorted it all out, make a complaint about Animal Health - that's disgraceful that they were so unhelpful.
I'd talk to the Police - I think, if someone is damaging your water supply, ie polluting it, it could be criminal damage and Environmental Health.
Sadly they have form on this, a notorious case of a dead horse in a watercourse for weeks possibly months is one i remember.