The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: colliewoman on January 31, 2013, 11:22:43 pm
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I have been very lucky so far and have grazed my animals where no stock has been for decades, that I assume is the reason I have avoided fluke on my grazing. However Neighbouring farms are beginning to have problems so I know it is now only a matter of time. Now to my dilemma....
I was chatting to people at the market yesterday and was recommended 'combinex' by several people and told it was the best product on the market at the moment.
I have also been told by a trusted friend and shepherd that one should never use a woemer/flukicide combined.
Can I have any opinions please?
Also is there anyone nearish to me that would like to share wormer/flukicide as I can never get through the volumes I need to buy before it either expires or I need to rotate ::) ::)
At the moment I have a half bottle of oramec that will go out of date very soon and I don't want to use another dose on my guys really, so if anyone nearby can use it up please shout :thumbsup:
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where are you based we are in somerset and only have 16 so even some small bottles is to much for us, and everyone i know uses combinex mine included this time.
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:wave: :wave: :wave:
I am just outside of Glastonbury, where abouts are you?
I only have 13 (soon to be 15) and I HATE wasting anything :D
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Combinex contains Fasinex plus wormers. If you only want to fluke then get Fasinex - it's cheaper and you aren't 'wasting' wormer. I appreciate that getting this, that and the other isn't so easy for small numbers - but would your vet dispense a smaller amount for you? Fasinex has a long shelf life and comes in 0.8L packs as well as 2.2L and 5L. It's 1ml per 10kg bodyweight, so if I have my arithmetic right, 800ml would treat 15 x 60kg sheep 8 times. If you dose 3 times over the cooler / wetter months, so long as it has at least 2 years left to run when you buy it, you won't be wasting much if any.
We have been using Combinex this year as, with our current weather, the fluke persists all the (cool, wet so-called) summer, and the worms survive all the (mild, wet) winter... ::) - but in Somerset I guess these parasites are all still seasonal as they should be. So if I were you, colliewoman, I'd use Fasinex over the winter and whatever wormer in the summer as needed.
And with your numbers and history I wouldn't get too het up about rotation of drugs, either, I'd just dose at the recommended intervals and, most importantly, at the recommended dose (having checked weights to be sure of getting the dose right) and with the correct technique.
With wormers they are now saying that if resistance is going to develop it develops whether you rotate or not, and there is now a school of thought that it may be best to use one wormer until resistance has developed to that, then switch to another wormer until resistance develops, and so on.
Personally I suspect resistance is much more likely to develop where dosing is less accurate (underdosing due to underestimating weight and/or failing to calibrate and test dosing gun every time), too infrequent or delivered badly (bad technique resulting in underdosing.)
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fluke seems to be a problem around here this year too. talking to our slaughterman last week and he told us out of 48 sheep killed 47 had ofal rejected.
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I thin attention also needs to be paid to what happens immediately after worming and fluking - and sheep put back on the pasture they've just come from for 24-48 hours then moved onto fresh pasture, so if the sheep pass resistant parasites they'll breed with the non-resistant ones still on the pasture and slow the spread of resistance. If the sheep are put directly on fresh pasture then any resistant parasites will breed with each other and create super-resistance. We have a holding area with flat, round stones which don't get caught between the sheep's clees, where the sheep used to drain off after dipping and it's ideal for holding sheep - the dung gets washed down between the stones between sessions.
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If you dont have resistant fluke, then triclabenzadole is the first thing to try. Only use a combined wormer/flukicide if you were going to be worming anyway - do you have a high FEC count?
You can buy generic stuff cheaply - Tribex or similar.
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:wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:
Im in chard we only have 16 soon a chance of being 21.
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If you dont have resistant fluke, then triclabenzadole is the first thing to try. Only use a combined wormer/flukicide if you were going to be worming anyway - do you have a high FEC count?
You can buy generic stuff cheaply - Tribex or similar.
No we don't I am very lucky that my grazing is so clean. I was watching the pennies and hoping to be able to use one product for all but see now that that is not appropriate. Also after reading SITN reply and chatting to my vet, current thinking being you only need to change wormer type if a resistance problem occurs. This being the case then I don't need to change my wormer and can continue using my bottle of oramec :thumbsup:
I have ordered a bottle of fasinex to cover the fluke.
My dosing syringe has just buggered up though so now to mine a drenching gun that won't cost more than the wormers, shame they don't give you a free one with the little bottles ::)
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I always think Fasinex is a bit expensive:
Fasinex 0.8l - £49.55
Tribex 2.2l - £36.39
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Our land has never had any stock on it - it's always been arable (or at least for the past 170 years anyway) but we were advised that we still ought to treat for fluke given the awful wet weather. We used Trodax (as we couldn't hold of Fasinex for love nor money near here) and the vet gave me individual doses to inject the four sheep. Cost me a grand total of £2.70 for all four :innocent:
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I like Trodax did wonders for my shearlings, but the orange stain was a pain!!
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the main thing in fasinex and comb nex is triclabendazole there is resistance to this .jannsens flukiver contains clostanel or somthin like that (on my sixth stella )there is nok nown resistance to it. some makes only kill adult fluke .sure it ment to be the imature moving through the liver does the most damage >:( i fluke every three months but only worm ewes couple weeks before lamb.
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Resistance to Triclabenzadole isn't widespread in the south and it kills all stages. Closantel isn't quite as effective kills something like >95% of the juveniles and all of the adults. So, the advice is usually to use that unless you know you have resistant fluke.
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Resistance to Triclabenzadole isn't widespread in the south and it kills all stages. Closantel isn't quite as effective kills something like >95% of the juveniles and all of the adults. So, the advice is usually to use that unless you know you have resistant fluke.
Yep Closantel kills from about 6 weeks, the fluke are mature (so have done most of their damage) by about 9 weeks up. If you can use Triclabendazole you're best off with it.
Dans
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I always think Fasinex is a bit expensive:
Fasinex 0.8l - £49.55
Tribex 2.2l - £36.39
Don't forget to check the dosage rates when comparing prices - I looked up Fasinex and Tribex in NOAH, and Fasinex is 1ml per 10kgs, Tribex 1ml per 5kgs - so you'll use twice as much of the Tribex.
Also, price per ml goes down as pack size goes up. I found the Fasinex available online for £39.99 for 0.8L, £83.02 for 2.2L. The former pack will treat 160 x 50kg sheep = 25p/sheep, the larger pack treats 440 x 50kg sheep = 19p/sheep.
That 2.2L of Tribex treats 220 x 50kgs sheep, at a cost of 17p/sheep.
So I agree that the Fasinex is more expensive - but 12% more, not the nearly 400% your figures suggested!