The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Hillview Farm on January 26, 2013, 09:33:04 am
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I've currently got suffolk mules and put a suffolk ram on them. But I was thinking of changing my breeds. I want something med/large sized meat breed as my girls are big and I want them all together.
What does anyone surgest?
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Hi i keep around 45 Lleyn and ten Suffolk Ive tried to show them together if it where me i would go for Lleyn every time....good milky mums and so easy to care for at the moment im feeding sugarbeet as they are all in lamb, the suffolks are very gready and yet theLleyns although most with twins are very easy on the grass and hay and beet.
So Lleyn every time from me :thumbsup:
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Romneys, or "kents" as we call them down here, are very popular. I dont keep them myself, but they are a good doer, good size, good feet, and when crossed with a meat sire like a southdown make chunky, strong, saleable lambs. Supposed to taste great too! Good luck :thumbsup:
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Pasture farm, what ram do you put them to?
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Watch out for poor feet with the Lleyns. We had 20 a few years ago and within 3 years all had gone to cull due to poor feet (and we'd eliminated footrot from the farm years before, too). Several scanned for quads and triplets but none ever managed to raise more than twins, however.
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Zwartbles - large breed, very tame, good mums and milky, excellent carcase and especially good if put to a Texel. :thumbsup:
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Our vet keeps lleyn and so do one of our neighbours. They both rate them, good mums, easy births and easy to sell. Only downside of their having lots of lambs is that sometimes you get quads! They haven't had any more issues with feet than any other breed but probably would cull poor feet anyway. Worth considering.
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http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h117/castlefarmpoultry/The%20Farm/Dec08056.jpg?t=1317742877 (http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h117/castlefarmpoultry/The%20Farm/Dec08056.jpg?t=1317742877)
I keep Lleyn and they are brilliant.
Easy to lamb.
Will raise 3 with ease, due to being a 'milk breed'
You will get problems with multi birth if you flush them to well.
No major problems with foot rot. But you need to know how to clip the feet correctly.
Lambs are up and on their feet very quickly and look to live.
They finish at around 42kg on grass.
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Looks like i may have to look into Lleyns. Sorry blinkers I really dont like Zwartbles
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Lleyns will produce good meaty lambs IF you put them back to a terminal sire such as a Charollais or Texel.
Very milky, good mothers, stupidly large litter size so you need to be prepared for the fact that you will need to foster lambs and/or bottle rear. They won't rear triplets off grass IME. Can be prone to mastitis.
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interested in this thread, I have a 30 strong flock of last years ewe lambs, they are Cheviot x Beltex, and wondering what sire to put on them. I am only interested in producing a meat lamb with good feet and easy lambing, so trying to avoid going back to Beltex/Tex/Suff, any other ideas?
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From what some are saying charolais sires seem to make for an easy lambing and a good carcase
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We keep a flock of Shropshires, lovely looking medium sized sheep and very easy to keep
www.shropshire-sheep.co.uk/ (http://www.shropshire-sheep.co.uk/)
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Lleyns are great - they are very profilgate, and there seem to be two distinct types. I haven't had much foot trouble with mine and I cull for it anyway - and so do the people I buy off.
I expect mine to rear trips off grass (which they do), so I guess it depends where you are in the country.
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Mays - Charollais would work very well on your Beltex x Cheviot. And have lovely fleece too, if you spin :knit: :knit:
Rachel.mcm - I WWOOFed one summer on a mixed organic farm in Somerset which had Lleyns. At the time I didn't know enough to realise - but there was a disproportionately high number of pet lambs. I now realise this was due to the large - excessive - litter sizes on that very very good ground.
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What is everybodys view on the Oxford Down? Doesn't this fit into a 'large meat' breed category?
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Personally I love 'em, but them I'm a sucker for all the Lowland Breeds and even more so if they're on the Rare Breeds lists. :thumbsup:
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What is everybodys view on the Oxford Down? Doesn't this fit into a 'large meat' breed category?
I've always loved the look of the Oxfords! Anyone have any experiences with them?
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I researched quite a while before I choose Oxfords - I have just got 3 oxford shearlings a couple of weeks ago, hopefully in lamb due sometime after the end of March.
Up to now there are no negatives about them - mine came from a large herd so are still a little wary of me at the moment - but they know what the feed bucket means! They appear really laid back and I have got them in a smallish area of a field for now just kept in by 3 strands of electric wire and they have made no move to escape - so thats a definate positive in my book. ;D
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Zac, what about Ryelands?
I have 5 and as these are my first sheep I don't have anything to compare them with but they are very laid back. No escaping, its too much effort for them. :thumbsup:
http://www.ryelandfbs.com/ (http://www.ryelandfbs.com/)
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Reason I enquired about Oxfords is after a visit to the Suffolk Show last year. We only played with some lambs last year to grow on and will most likey do something similar this year......nothing to stop me researching for the future though ;)
A few people we know have Lleyns and rave about them. I must admitt to having a soft spot for Kerryhills but after seeing Oxfords at the Show they did tick a lot of the boxes for me :thinking:
GFD's are also very very very nice ;D (Are you there this year Tilly???)
We will see...time will tell...until then I'll continue to plan :excited:
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What about the Hampshire Down?
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Pasture farm, what ram do you put them to?
At the moment we have four tups.... two Pure Lleyn One Hampshire Down and One Charolaise x Texel. In the past for meat (terminal Sire) we have always used the Hampshire this produces a good carcass for market at around 42-45kg but the drawback has been at lambing where the lambs forehead has always been a problem for the ewe to pass without me having to assist, when using a pure lleyn for new stock there are very few lambing problems and Ditto to what Castle Farm says. My Recent Charrolaise cross is more of an experiment for next season we havnt used him yet, were after a good terminal sire for meat but with less lambing difficulties.
hope this helps :wave:
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Yikes - that's not what I wanted to hear about the difficulty with the Hampshire Down and difficult births. My 10 ewes will lamb to a Hampshire Down sire this year after a swap from a Charollais X tup. I have 1 x very large ewe lamb that I am now extremely worried about :-[ When I researched the various breeds prior to purchase it mentions about easy lambing with this sire. My ewes are all large ewes of Charollais x breeding with the ewe lamb being a Charollais x Suffolk. My older ewes are normally able to lamb without any assistance at all, so I really hope I haven't made a big mistake and put them at risk by choosing a Hampshire Down!
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GFD's are also very very very nice ;D (Are you there this year Tilly???)
:fc: I will be there :eyelashes: :excited: .
Hi ZakB :wave:
.........I am a fan of the big native down breeds , they are just awesome :o .
My Greyfaces were penned next to a chap at one of the shows last year who was showing his Hampshire downs, and I was really taken by how laid back they seemed.
....He said they were a really easy breed to look after and normally have twins ,that they lambed easily and the lambs fattened quickly :thumbsup: .
I would imagine the lamb carcase would probably not fit into the" standard" supermarket type carcase and the chops would be extra large and possibly with a extra internal fat coverage on the meat,
personally I love that as it adds extra flavour :yum: to the meat.
As for handling such a large breed -and I am a small lass :eyelashes: ! I think I would`t even attempt to turn such a heavy breed - foot trimming and shearing would have to be done with the sheep standing :sheep: , a bit unconventional but possible. ;D
Tilly :wave:
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:fc: I will be there :eyelashes: :excited: .
Look forward to seeing you there again
:fc: a little better weather this year :sunshine:
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Yikes - that's not what I wanted to hear about the difficulty with the Hampshire Down and difficult births. My 10 ewes will lamb to a Hampshire Down sire this year after a swap from a Charollais X tup. I have 1 x very large ewe lamb that I am now extremely worried about :-[ When I researched the various breeds prior to purchase it mentions about easy lambing with this sire. My ewes are all large ewes of Charollais x breeding with the ewe lamb being a Charollais x Suffolk. My older ewes are normally able to lamb without any assistance at all, so I really hope I haven't made a big mistake and put them at risk by choosing a Hampshire Down!
Please don't worry, the only Hampshires i've had to assist this year have been the ones with Schmallenberg, all the others have spat them out no problem and i have over a hundred of them.
If you get any problems it is usually down to over feeding but ALL sheep can be prone to bad births, We have lambed Hamps for many years and they are not hard, but they are also not prolific except when put to the mule type sheep. on their own as pedigree, singles and twins are the norm and triplets occasionally.
My crossbred Llanwenog flock lamb later in Feb / March and i tend to leave them to it and they spit out lambs with no assistance these are to our large Hamp tup
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All the down breeds tend to be very docile (and their comparatively short legs make them less likely to have fence jumping tendencies). I wouldn't recommend Kerry Hills as a starter breed. Our neighbour keeps them and they're certainly no respecters of fences and tend to be very skittish, although excellent mothers.
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Please don't worry, the only Hampshires i've had to assist this year have been the ones with Schmallenberg, all the others have spat them out no problem and i have over a hundred of them.
If you get any problems it is usually down to over feeding but ALL sheep can be prone to bad births, We have lambed Hamps for many years and they are not hard, but they are also not prolific except when put to the mule type sheep. on their own as pedigree, singles and twins are the norm and triplets occasionally.
My crossbred Llanwenog flock lamb later in Feb / March and i tend to leave them to it and they spit out lambs with no assistance these are to our large Hamp tup
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Thanks feldar for that peace of mind reply - much appreciated.
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Mays - Charollais would work very well on your Beltex x Cheviot. And have lovely fleece too, if you spin :knit: :knit:
if onyl I had the time to spin! but good idea, I have a freind breeds good Charollais, I need to speak to her :)
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Its not the hampshires that have problems lambing???? my post read that i use a Hampshire as a terminal sire on my Lleyns thats where the problem was!!!! Please read my post again
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Pasture Farm - I don't have Hampshire Down ewes either, but have for the first time ever used a Hampshire Down as terminal sire on my Charollais x ewes - hence my worry that like your ewes, mine will have lambing issues with the lambs forehead being too large to pass unassisted. However, I have been reassured by Feldars post and hope that as my ewes are larger in size than a Lleyn that the majority will be fine and lamb unassisted. I expect to assist a ewe lamb or first timer but had visions of me having to assist each and every one of my ewes this year! Apologies if I have misread your original post though :eyelashes:
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HDs have foreheads no bigger than the Southdown and I've only ever had to assist one of the Badger Face that we put to a SD ram - she had an exceptionally large single, for some unknown reason, but the following years they were all standard size.
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Pasture Farm i wasn't getting at you , it's just i couldn't understand you had such problems cause my Llanwenogs can't be any bigger than a Lleyn and they spit lambs out to our Hamp tup no problem.
The Hamp forehead is no bigger than any other just looks it with wool on it and it surely can't be any bigger than a Suffolk tup! Everyone has problems occasionally and i'm sorry you did i just feel perhaps you were being a bit harsh towards Hampshires, but then i am a bit crazy about them they are my favourite breed so forgive me if i defend them to the grave.
No hard feelings i hope :eyelashes:
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I've no direct experience of Hampshire tups, although I know that a neighbouring smallholder uses one on their Llanwenogs too.
I posted to say that the external measurements of the ewe are only a part of the picture - pelvic width is very important, and as I understand it, Soays, Shetlands and Castlemilk Moorit have a wider pelvis than most commercial white sheep, which is one of the reasons why they seem to be able to lamb to a Texel no bother when some of their much larger cousins - Texels themselves, Mules, etc - can have problems.
Same thing applies to Jersey cattle - she's one of the smallest breeds but her pelvis is the widest, hence she can produce a double-muscled beef cross calf with ease, when some of her much larger Holstein cousins can struggle.
Another factor I've been observing in sheep is how much the mother puts into the growing lambs. I think the primitives and hill sheep are possibly better at not 'overcooking' their lambs, whereas some Mules will drain every atom of their being into producing mammoth lambs that they then are too **ackered to rear ::)
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i have been farming in my own right for about 8 years now started with ten ewes ! now have about 200 .i have been down a few differnt routes but am now building up a flock of easycares .not everyones cup of tea but they suit my system well .anything that i dont want gets put to mainly the charollais tup for meat . i tryed lleyn which did ok but had to much wool .the hill i rent has horrendous flys so they didnt suit i also found the big lamb crops only came when the ewes were abit older .we have some pedigree charollais and a few pedigree beltex .i try to breed all my own tups and replacement ewes.
on the tup question everything used to lamb to the beltex or texel we were assisting about one in every 3 ewes i swaped to the charollais and i had to help 4 out of the full flock it was great. care has to be taken on tup choice as the lambs can be a bit soft if its bad weather.
the pure beltex are a nightmare .
it is hard picking the right breed as every breed has good and bad points depends on your area and land type how much time and effort you want to put in aswell .
:sheep:
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Feldar....no offence taken I comment based purely on my own experiences and on last year alone i had to assist the majority of our Lleyns and the Llanwenogs....which incidentally we no longer have........the suffolks to the Hampshire we had no problem with......the pure Lleyns we had no problem with
The previous year we had practically no issue with the lleyn x hampshire
This year the hamp has two pure girls and the suffolks.... the rest went to the Lleyn and here comes lambing....... :sheep: ....i'll keep you posted