The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Hillview Farm on January 12, 2013, 08:56:34 am
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I bought a ewe lamb about a month ago. She was hand reared and has a single yellow electronic tag (slaughter tag)
I rang up to order some tags and asked if i could upgrade her tags to breeding tags. The ins and outs of it I rang DEFRA And they basically told me she had to be slaughtered by 12 months because shes on her 2nd holding after the holding of birth and if not i'll be fined a large sum of money.
Shes a Pet... What do I do? I was planning to breed from her etc. I actually cried when they told me, shes part f the family.
Any help?
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According to Defra's own document, Guidance for Keepers in England, Rules for identifying sheep and goats, Section 3.23(a)
Upgrading sheep with an electronic slaughter tag to full EID
These animals can be upgraded to full EID as long as the animals are on their holding of
birth or have moved to their present holding either directly from their holding of birth or
from their holding of birth through a market. The full individual animal number must be
recorded when the animals you intend to upgrade to full EID are moved onto your
holding.
It is only lambs whose single slaughter tag is non-electronic, or where the full individual Id was not recorded as the animal moved onto the subsequent holding, that cannot be upgraded.
Do you have the full id of the lamb's tag and was it recorded on the movement license when you moved her onto your holding?
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You could always "loose" the first tag and re-tag her with a (double and EID) red tag, full numbers from your own flock. Especially if you don't plan for her to enter the food chain an she isn't pedigree.
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Basically, The holding of birth sold her through ashford market then onto a lady at 3 days old, the lady bottle fed her and sold her to me at 8 months old. Shes just got a yellow tag that has her UK number on it. An a AM1 form was filled in which had her tag number (UK number) on it and sent to trading standards. So she was moved onto the holding correctly.
So does that mean I can keep her and upgrade tags?
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'These animals can be upgraded to full EID as long as the animals are on their holding of
birth or have moved to their present holding either directly from their holding of birth or
from their holding of birth through a market.'
From the above DEFRA text it doesnt sound as if she can be upgraded. as she didnt come direct from holding of birth and she didnt come straight from them via a market - the lady in between is the issue. The bit about full recording appears to refer to those animals qualifying under the quoted paragraph.
However..........IMO unless you get a lot of single farm payment for your land (which they might dock you for - thats normally the sanction for minor infringements), then the important thing is traceability and provided you are recording everything accurately I would upgrade her and record all the details of the old and new tags in your register.
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So I just take out the old tag, put my breeding tags in and then record it?
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Page 24 of the DEFRA published guide to tagging (http://www.defra.gov.uk/publications/files/pb13327-sheeps-goats-guidance-091209.pdf (http://www.defra.gov.uk/publications/files/pb13327-sheeps-goats-guidance-091209.pdf)) says that an animal which is on its 2nd or more holding from the one it was born on CANNOT be upgraded to breeding stock because it is not completely traceable. Does the lady you got her from have a record of the full electronic number of the lamb? Is that what was recorded on the AML1 form?
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Doesn't the electronic tag have the individual's number recorded if you scan it?
You have my heartfelt sympathies, being in a similar position. As suggested on here, I intend to retag with my own flock and individual number and record the upgrade. Hopefully, as long as traceability is maintained, it won't be an issue.
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As its a slaughter tag it has no other number apart from the uk number. the lamb has no number of her own. the uk number was put on the AM1 form
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I may have misunderstood, but I thought the individual number was embedded on the chip, if you can get hold of a scanner...
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I thought slaughter tags just had the flock number on, but I'm not sure if electronic ones also have an ID number on there too as the ones my slaughter lambs had on were non-EID. I'm assuming not, otherwise DEFRA wouldn't have a problem with upgrading.
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Depends where you are - in Scotland the slaughter tags do have an individual number, which you can read with a reader I presume. When I ordered a mix of slaughter and breeding tags, the slaughter ones were Nos 80 to 120...
Really the easiest is to upgrade to a red tags, as you would with any ewe that wandered onto your land....
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Somewhere on here is a thread from me from a year ago when I took on the sheep 'co-op' lambs that had been destined for slaughter but I decided to keep. I'll try and look it out for you.
In the end, I was advised by AH to put red replacement tags in. All is sorted now and the lambs are huge ewes still with red earrings.
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How do I go about getting red tags then? her current tag has the UK number she was born on. Does she have my UK number on if i put red ones in?
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Somewhere on here is a thread from me from a year ago when I took on the sheep 'co-op' lambs that had been destined for slaughter but I decided to keep. I'll try and look it out for you.
In the end, I was advised by AH to put red replacement tags in. All is sorted now and the lambs are huge ewes still with red earrings.
If you could that would be brilliant!
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replacement tags (I am sure, from memory) would have your details and an individual number. Nimble (our pet ewe) has our UK.... number plus 00001 or something, another has 00002 and so it goes on... let me look for the thread, bear with me :)
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Can't find the one I'm looking for, but came across this -
http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=21143.msg201044#msg201044 (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=21143.msg201044#msg201044)
might be useful?
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Thank you plums :) I'll give that a read!
Could I just be really naughty and upgrade her and say i believed the woman i got her from bred her? When upgrading, would she still have the uk number from the holding of birth or does she go to having my uk number?
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If you phone your tag manufacturer just ask for 5 (or whatever their minimum is) pairs of replacement tags, these will have YOUR flock number on and start with 000001 (if these are your first ever tags).
Then just cross reference in your register book.
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Make sure you have a tag applicator that is compatible with the tags you order too. Just keep a record of the change in your book.
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Lovely. Big thank you Plums and everyone else :)
I was going to order my tags for the coming lambs tomorrow anyway so I can do it then.
Cheered me up big time :)
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Update, rang defra again and they said as shes a pet I can now upgrade her! Thank you everyone, just goes to show there are ways around it!
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Brilliant news!!