The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: trying on December 28, 2012, 02:55:30 pm

Title: Our sow, disaster
Post by: trying on December 28, 2012, 02:55:30 pm
Our sow delivered 10 dead and 2 living but after about 2 hours they too were dead, this is her 4th litter and the only one to go wrong, I'm so sad for her, no indication of anything wrong and all piglets look fully formed and normal, the sow has since been walking around and had a drink and she seems to be fine, after birth looked normal and delivery was as usual.
Title: Re: Our sow, disaster
Post by: Bionic on December 28, 2012, 02:59:03 pm
Ah, I am so sad for you and the sow.   :bouquet:
I wonder what went wrong.
Sally
Title: Re: Our sow, disaster
Post by: rispainfarm on December 28, 2012, 04:26:26 pm
So sad for you as well  :hug: I wonder what went wrong, any chance of having a pm done to find out, maybe avoid it again.
Title: Re: Our sow, disaster
Post by: Mammyshaz on December 28, 2012, 04:34:45 pm
It must be heartbreaking for you and your sow.  :bouquet:
Title: Re: Our sow, disaster
Post by: trying on December 28, 2012, 05:03:52 pm
I was very practical about it at the time but as the day is closing in I am starting to feel it a lot more, we bred her ourselves and she is a very sweet British lop, and very special, they are all special I know, but to loose the lot is so sad.
Thank you all for your kind words.
Ann
Title: Re: Our sow, disaster
Post by: Mrs Snoodles on December 28, 2012, 05:20:38 pm
What a shame for you all, very upsetting especially as you had no indication of any problems. :hug:
Title: Re: Our sow, disaster
Post by: trying on December 28, 2012, 05:26:31 pm
Hi, thank you Mrs Snoodles, I have been following your post with my fingers crossed for your sow :fc: , but that's the way it goes, my fingers are still  :fc: for your girl.
Ann
Title: Re: Our sow, disaster
Post by: oaklandspigs on December 28, 2012, 05:38:47 pm
Did you witness any problems with her straining to have them?
 
It is very unusual to lose a whole litter, but it is possible that one got stuck, and blocked the way out for the rest.
 
A piglets umbilical cord is only 50cm long, and the track to get out about 1.5m, so the cord breaks inside the sow.  The piglet has about 5 minutes to get out before it dies of suffocation, so if one piglet blocked the exit, then it is possible that the others backed up and all suffocated.  Most unusual, but if there are no other signs of illness, then that's the explanation I'd go for.
 
Suffocation is by far the most common cause of a piglet being born dead, but otherwise being fine and fully formed.  If they don't fully form then they look mumified, and if they die other than immediately before birth they tend to be re-absorbed, mummified or very odd looking. 
 
The sow has two uterine horns and a central way out - like an "M" with the middle "v" bit of the M being the exit.  Sometimes they can come up one side (eg from the bottom left of the M, and miss the central exit, going down the other (right hand) leg of the M.  They can then take too long to exit and suffocate.  Also the last from one side of the horn has a long way to travel, and it is not untypical for half the litter to be born fully alive, then one dead, then the other half all live, - the last on one side didn't make it out in time.  Ditto why you can often get a dead one with the afterbirth.
 
I'd certainly try her again
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Our sow, disaster
Post by: trying on December 28, 2012, 05:48:17 pm
Thank you Oaklands, a very informative reply, as usual, we have been watching her very closely as we were not sure of dates, long story, she started to nest build last night, started to deliver at around 5 am, she has always been slow to start, but the first 9 arrived dead quite quickly, then two live, then 1 dead.
Title: Re: Our sow, disaster
Post by: Marches Farmer on December 28, 2012, 06:30:48 pm
Mmm, odd.  Once piglets begin arriving they normally follow at about 20 minute intervals.  If there had been a blockage it would perhaps have been likely the two live ones would also have died.  How is the sow now?  Have you managed to take her temperature, in case she has some kind of infection that may have caused a problem?
Title: Re: Our sow, disaster
Post by: trying on December 28, 2012, 06:43:29 pm
Hi, Lola is fine, we have not taken her temperature as she has been up and walking around, taken a good drink and is sleeping very soundly, her skin feels very normal, there was no indication of any problems, no undue straining or pushing just dead piglets. We have another Lop due in the next week or two so fingers crossed for a better outcome. we will certainly be keeping Lola and letting her have another litter.
Title: Re: Our sow, disaster
Post by: Polished Arrow on December 28, 2012, 08:21:46 pm
Oh, I am so sorry to hear this news...  :bouquet:


Poor Lola.  And poor you, too.  That's a long wait and a lot of work for such a sad outcome.


Hope you will try her again and that there is better news to come.
Title: Re: Our sow, disaster
Post by: sabrina on December 28, 2012, 09:26:47 pm
Maybe a stupid question but could it be due to a lack of calcium. I lost a litter of kittens to this, they just slipped away and found out through my vet that this was the problem. My cat was very fussy with food.
Title: Re: Our sow, disaster
Post by: zarzar on December 28, 2012, 09:34:49 pm
HI im new to all this but does anyone know for definate if pigs can be bitten by the same insects that bite sheep and cows, can pigs get bitten by mites ect carring smallenberg as all i have herd is sheep and cows but made me wonder if pigs get it to
Title: Re: Our sow, disaster
Post by: trying on December 28, 2012, 09:36:35 pm
Hi, thank you for your input but as she is on the same food, sow rolls and market veg/fruit and lives outdoors, we moved her 3 weeks ago to the farrowing house, she has always farrowed there,  I do not think that that is the problem but who knows! she is up to date with worming.
Title: Re: Our sow, disaster
Post by: Blinkers on December 28, 2012, 10:40:31 pm
Oh what a bummer - so, so sorry about that. But as Oaklands says - DO try her again.    :fc:
Title: Re: Our sow, disaster
Post by: trying on December 28, 2012, 10:55:50 pm
We will not give up on her, no matter how old or what has happened she is still our baby,
Title: Re: Our sow, disaster
Post by: Fowgill Farm on December 29, 2012, 04:29:31 pm
just catching up on my TAS reading and sad to read your news trying, must be very painful for you but the main thing as you point out is that your girl is ok and that so long as shes happy and well in  herself thats what counts and asyou say you can try again. nature works in mysterious ways and maybe it decided it just wasn't the time.
 :fc: for next time
 :hug: all the best mandy :pig:
Title: Re: Our sow, disaster
Post by: oaklandspigs on December 29, 2012, 05:33:22 pm
HI im new to all this but does anyone know for definate if pigs can be bitten by the same insects that bite sheep and cows, can pigs get bitten by mites ect carring smallenberg as all i have herd is sheep and cows but made me wonder if pigs get it to

ZarZar - good thought, but pigs fortunately are not subject to Smallenberg. 
Title: Re: Our sow, disaster
Post by: rispainfarm on December 29, 2012, 05:50:15 pm
This may be of interest.

 1.There are more piglets born dead among multiple farrowing, usually the fifth or the last three piglets. This is perhaps because of the length of the womb and the umbilical cord. For about one meter of the cord to be borne by the piglet, (while it is normally only 70 cm. long) in its length of passage, the cord is stretched and cut and so the last piglets lose breath before they are able to emerge.
 2.It could also be due to the aging mother, (which may have farrowed five or six times). Usually, delivering dead piglets start from the fourth to the seventh farrowing. The next farrowing can be seen in the piglets that have been delivered.
 3.Other causes could be the stress borne by the mother pig before delivery -perhaps she has had a fight or had undergone much difficulty in the last weeks before delivery.
 4.Fat mother pig have difficulty in delivery.
 5.If the mother is anemic or lacks Vitamin E, the piglet cannot survive its delivery because it also lacks Vitamin E.
 6.Death of the piglet could also be due to the mother pig’s lack of Vitamin A in her diet, months before delivery.
 7.If the mother pig’s meal becomes contaminated with molds, it will deliver weak or dead piglets.
 8.If at a certain time several mother pigs deliver dead piglets, infections or sickness could be the cause. There are diseases for instance that are transferrable from cats to pigs, but seldom vice versa. If the mother pig gets contaminated while the piglet is still in its womb, this could result in abortion. But if the infection comes about at the latter part of the pregnancy, the piglet will be born dead.
 9.If the pig pen lacks proper ventilation, and much more when there is a gas leak around, or if the carbon monoxide level (from vehicle exhausts) is high, this could result in the death of the piglet in the pig’s womb.
Title: Re: Our sow, disaster
Post by: Rosemary on December 29, 2012, 07:11:59 pm
Really sorry to hear about Lola  :(
Title: Re: Our sow, disaster
Post by: trying on December 29, 2012, 07:55:37 pm
Thank you all so much for your kind thoughts and advice, Lola does not seem any the worse for her ordeal and is as friendly and calm as ever, she has eaten and had a wonder about outside, we shall rest her a while and then try again.
Ann
Title: Re: Our sow, disaster
Post by: Marches Farmer on December 30, 2012, 12:07:37 pm
Rispain - you could be right on moulds in feed.  Particularly bad this year as feed bagged at the mill in high humidity will almost certainly contain them, and the humidity meter we have in the poultry incubation room read a minimum of 68% all summer.  We used to buy weaners from a top herd that suffered infertility or piglet numbers down by 80% for months after eating mouldy feed.  Unfortunately the breede rwas a heavy smoker and hadn't noticed the smell, although the feed looked OK. 
Title: Re: Our sow, disaster
Post by: rispainfarm on January 02, 2013, 06:35:27 pm
My local tarff valley will only stock a few bags at a time due to the mould aspect as i am the only one in the local area that buys sow and weaner pencils (not rolls) so both they and I have to keep a check on the amount they have got in store over holiday periods.