The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Maesgwyn on December 22, 2012, 07:37:42 pm
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I am looking to get in 4-6 meat lambs next year but can not find anyone to help me learn the correct way to look after them. are there any local shepherds around Newcastle Emlyn, Carmarthenshire who could help me please
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Maesgwyn,
I am in Carmarthenshire and have 5 sheep myself, bought earlier this year. I would love to be able to help but am still very much learning myself.
Still, we are in sheep country so there must be loads of others out there who have more experience than I do.
Good luck
Sally
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I guess your options are
1. buy in lamb ewes or ewes with lambs at foot
2. raise orphan lambs on the bottle
3. buy stores at market later in the year
We went for option 2 and it's very labour intensive but still rewarding! We did look at buying a few stores about a month ago but they seem to be making fairly good money at the moment at market so it wasn't really worth it financially. Option 1 is expensive but you would then have breeding ewes who would produce lambs year in year out but much simpler than bottle rearing lambs.
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And the problem with breeding ewes is that you have to shear them, find a ram for next year, and then the worries of lambing. Plus you have to get all of the official nonsense started. You are suddenly a sheep producer.
The problem with orphans is that a good 50% will suddenly die on you for no reason apparent to a novice shepherd. If they have not had sufficient colostrum [why were they orphans in the first place? ] they are pretty much doomed. Also can you bear to kill them when they regard you as their Mum?
Stores are expensive, but probably the best all round way to go, they are a flying flock, so you can get in and out of them quickly, and give your land chance to rid itself of all the problems that appear with long stay sheep on a small acreage. But you are still effectively buying lamb.
But in your situation just to produce a freezer full of meat, I would consider 50 meat birds, bought day old in June, raised in movable arks on grass. Feed them largely on wheat and 'straights'. You can do the whole thing yourself that way?
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We produce pork both to sell and for ourselves, poultry for the eggs and the odd meat bird though will get in more meat birds next year, you can only eat so much pork before wanting to eat something else. The idea of the meat lambs was also to strip graze the field and in doing so improve the grass, i have seen this done in hampshire and in an arid situation in Spain and both worked really well http://www.holisticdecisions.com/index.html (http://www.holisticdecisions.com/index.html)
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I'm with CS on this. Store lambs have less commitment and an easier learning curve than going straight into lambing. Ask a local producer - and you are spoilt for choice - and you may pay more than from the mart but you get a neighbour who'll answer questions,
Your local sheep breed is the rather nice mid-sized Llanwenog - based just a few miles east of you.
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I know that they are the most 'complex' of the options up thee, but I cannot be doing with orphan lambs - they cost more to feed than they are worth, stores are pricy....
Id always get some ewes, but thats just me.
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Id always get some ewes, but thats just me.
That's because you really know all the problems and techniques, and have the kit. There's a lot to be said for learning about catching 'n turning, feet 'n flystrike before long gloves and lubricant gel!
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I started with just 15 ewes, some hurdles and string. Bought them in the spring to get them tupped in the autumn. I had a full-time job at the time (although, admittedly it was next-door to where my sheep were).
Although, admittedly I was always a yokel and knew one end of a sheep from the other before I began.
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Although, admittedly I was always a yokel and knew one end of a sheep from the other before I began.
Damn! That's where I've been going wrong :)
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I know that they are the most 'complex' of the options up thee, but I cannot be doing with orphan lambs - they cost more to feed than they are worth, stores are pricy....
Not true, there is money in them. We worked out we spent £60 per lamb to buy, feed, kill and cut and if we had sold them (which we didn't, kept for our freezer) we would have easily got £65/half lamb. If you include labour then yes it's not economic, and we are on a farm so hay/straw cost nothing.
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Hi,how much did you buy your lambs in for,how old were they.Sounds like you got a good deal,dose that price include butchery. or do you do that your self.
Graham.
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Orphans this year were about £20-ish, a kill and cut is about £30 so I guess they probably spent about £10/head on food which seems reasonable.
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I bought my orphans for £20 a head they were between 1 and 4 days old. Kill and cut was £25 and worked out they had just under a 10kg bag of lamblac each and a 25kg bag of creep, so circa £65/head to raise.
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Hi,that id defiantly worth doing put like that,do you loose many.How much time per day do you need to spend feeding them when they are young.How long do you have to keep them inside.
I have been buying in stores for the past couple of years just to get experience,I have also now bought some ewe lambs to tup next autumn.
The stores are costing me £60 per head,£25 to kill and cut the same as you and then I am selling them for £60 a half.So with any additional feeding very little money in them.
Like I said I thought this was for me was a good safe way to start + the guy I bought them from is local and there if I need advice which in two years luckily I haven't.
Graham.
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When we first got them they were on 5 feeds a day, 6 lambs probably about 1/2 hr per feed? They were off milk by 6 wks old, by then they were on creep and out at grass during the day. We had them out in the day, in overnight until about 14 wks old as we have a lot of badgers and foxes on the farm, then turned out 24/7 until beginning of Oct when they came in and were killed. We didn't lose any, but 1 went down with pneumonia at a fairly late stage, 1 had an eye problem which we cleared up with some eye drops that they dog had (!!) and 1 didn't have a great sucking reflex so was difficult to feed for the first 2 weeks or so and needed extra small feeds inbetween the other regular feeds. So v labour intensive, our first feed was at 6.30am and the last was about 11.30pm but we live on the farm so it's fine, feeding in pjs!
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Hi were you bucket feeding or straight from the bottle,How many did you have,how bigger shed did you keep them in, if you don't mind me asking
I have had to work else where in the past but the way things are going at the moment this year may be different so this could well be a possibility.
Graham.
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My orphan lambs were very worthwhile. I bought 4 and got them from someone I knew at about 4-6 days old, paid £10 each (though he only asked for £5 each).
Because we have the dairy goats, we were producing milk anyway, so no milk costs. Fed until they were 12 weeks old. We did have to give one lamb antibiotics and vitamins as she had very weak legs at about 2 weeks old, but she recovered fine. The other female lamb died at about 14 weeks old- pasturella despite being vaccinated ::)
They had a bit of sheep mix, but probably only about half a sack, so about £5. Cut and butcher was £73 for the three, and I did have my petrol to a, pick them up, b, take to abattoir, c, pick up the meat. But all in all, very reasonable. And needless to say, we are having roast lamb for lunch tomorrow.
Beth
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I know that they are the most 'complex' of the options up thee, but I cannot be doing with orphan lambs -
:eyelashes: :eyelashes: :eyelashes: Should you happen to get any orphans that you can't foster I would like to buy some this coming year so think of me should it happen please!
Hopefully you wont get any but just in case!
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Maesgwyn,
We are near Lllandeilo, about an hour from you. We have ~60 Soay which are a primitive breed. You are welcome to come over some time, chat and get some hands on experience. They are not typical of modern breeds - they are small which makes them hard to catch but easy to handle and they shed their wool so I can't offer advice on shearing but the basic jobs like foot trimming, dosing and spraying are the same.
Richard
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How much land will you have available? You could offer grass keep to a local farmer (April to October) and ask to be paid in lamb. He'd check them every day and you could hang around and pick up tips.
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Hi were you bucket feeding or straight from the bottle,How many did you have,how bigger shed did you keep them in, if you don't mind me asking
I have had to work else where in the past but the way things are going at the moment this year may be different so this could well be a possibility.
Graham.
No bottle feeding so as to ensure every lamb got the right amount. We had 6 as it was the first year we did it but this year we will take as many as we can get poss 15. OHs sister had 5 but were kept in a separate pen next door, but turned out in the field together later on. They were kept in a small pen 10' by 5' in a large cow shed. We made the pen smaller by sectioning it off my straw bales and had a heat lamp rigged up too.
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Hi,sorry for so many questions but I'm very interested.What wattage was the heat lamp and how close do you set it.
Thanks Graham.
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That's ok! To be honest I haven't a clue what wattage it is, it's just a heat lamp we have here on the farm for calves and lambs, it was quite warm though. Probably set a metre above the lambs?
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:eyelashes: :eyelashes: :eyelashes: Should you happen to get any orphans that you can't foster I would like to buy some this coming year so think of me should it happen please!
Hopefully you wont get any but just in case!
Fostering lambs on an outdoor system is always a case of lots of luck, and doesn't work very often, I fond (and if its going to work, it has to be a wet foster) and the day I get no orphans is the day I have created the perfect ewe and will make my millions. So, I should imagine I will have some lambs for you come April. :)
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I have raised lots of orphan lambs for our freezer over the years and found it very worth while. Gave up breeding and sold my ewes as often my vet bill was more than any lambs we had. We only had a small flock but they were still a lot of work. I get my lambs from a local farmer who I know and trust.
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:eyelashes: :eyelashes: :eyelashes: Should you happen to get any orphans that you can't foster I would like to buy some this coming year so think of me should it happen please!
Hopefully you wont get any but just in case!
Fostering lambs on an outdoor system is always a case of lots of luck, and doesn't work very often, I fond (and if its going to work, it has to be a wet foster) and the day I get no orphans is the day I have created the perfect ewe and will make my millions. So, I should imagine I will have some lambs for you come April. :)
ACE!! ;D ;D
Can you let me know (pm if you prefer) how much you ask for a cade, then I can put the money away ready. Thank you :-*
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PM Sent (I hope).
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Pm received I just am rubbish in remembering to reply :-[ :D
I would reckon on about 6, but will know for sure nearer the time :thumbsup:
Thank you!
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I have found a local sheep breeder, who in return for some spinning she would like me to do for her, will teach me the basics of keeping sheep and which type to buy in for a first timer for the freezer, I do not have the time to take on orphans which I can pick up for £0 around here which is a great shame. When we take pigs to slaughter it is a two hour round trip, once to take them and then to go and collect the meat, soon adds £s to the price of production, will be the same for the sheep