The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: plumseverywhere on December 17, 2012, 08:02:59 pm
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Lost a wether to a dog attack today. Is there anything I need to do/notify anyone etc?
We'd already notified police before it transpired that 2 German shepherds got into our land, attacked the sheep, local farmer was in field next to us and managed to grab them, tie them up and contact owner. He checked my 5 over but didn't see any harm.
By the time I got home, he was covered in blood and I found gaping wounds. Vet came out and put him to sleep. Vet writing a report on the 'awful awful injuries', so that we can make sure the owner pays vet bills and collection charges but do I need to do anything else please?
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Other than getting the police to prosecute the owners if the circumstances justify it, I think you have covered all bases.
Dogs can only be shot 'in the act' ie where its essential to prevent further killings, but a judge could order destruction or more likely muzzling and on lead when out in public. Not sure I would want that for a first offence since its the owners fault not the dog's, but it might be worthwhile pursuing the muzzle/lead order.
Im so sorry you have gone through this. We lost a young sheep a couple of years back, with another ewe injured, but didnt see the dog, but the injuries were classic dog; the following year three lambs were killed nearby and the dog was seen this time, so the description is known by the village even tho it couldnt be caught to prove it was the specific dog everyone knew it was - but they are on a general silent warning from the village now! One good thing is in your case the dogs were caught and identified.
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Thank you.
Apparently the dogs escape a lot. I'm worried that they'll be back. Police popping round tomorrow to see us. While I don't want to cause hostilities locally, my livestock is my responsibility and priority (not to mention my childrens safety too!)
Just so cross!!
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I think if this isnt a one off where the dogs getting out was exceptional, I would be pressing the police for some further action against the owners, so that they are compelled to keep them on a lead and muzzled at all times outside their property, and also to secure their boundaries.
Of course your animals are your priority, there is no excuse for the owners given what you say about this not being a one off in terms of the dogs getting out. And this isnt a case of the dogs 'just' bothering the sheep, they have killed. And once they have killed they will have the taste for it.
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:bouquet: :bouquet: :bouquet: So sorry, Plums. Just awful :'( . Hope the girls are okay.
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That's a horrible thing to have happen. :bouquet: :-* :hug:
The Police need to take action to make sure these dogs are kept properly controlled. If they won't do anything, ask them if you could take action yourself though the Civil court.
Plums, do you have any pregnant ewes this year? Would they have been nearby? I ask because trauma can cause problems with pregnant ewes - abortion of course but also metaboilic disturbances. So just keep an even better eye than usual on the girls for a day or two ;)
:hug:
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:bouquet: so sorry plums.
Why do so many people these days not take full responsibility for their dog's behaviour and ACT on it!! This owner is irresponsible and the police should come down hard on him/her.
( rant over :rant: )
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Thanks All.
No, no pregnant ewes this year Sally thank goodness. No pregnant goats either. The farmer who caught the dogs and has given me the number of the owner is checking his flock over (he has about 30 lambs next to my paddock) he says I need to keep an eye today as often the shock hits within the 24 hours of the attack and the remainder could be affected.
I'm worried that the dogs will come back now that they know where they've killed. With the exception of an air rifle I'm not in a position to protect my flock as I'd like to :( Police coming this morning to talk to us. At the least, these dogs need to be muzzled at all times! I know what action I'd like to see but we'll have to wait and find out what goes on from now. Oh and hope that she's honest enough to admit liability for these huge bills. Oh and I will take some pics of my dead, savaged lamb before he gets collected in 'that' lorry today.
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You must take some horrid but very vivid pics of the wounds because unfortunately many people are unaware of what their dogs ACTUALLY did and will deny it :( So sorry for you in this situation.....
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Arh that is soooooo horrid, dogs like you say, will now be excited and do it again if they get out, that owner needs to keep them in a safer place, otherwise he will have them shot too.....sooo sad for you all.
My brother lives next to a chap who has a security business using Alsatian's, my brother adores any animal and understands dogs but often has to fend off one of his neighbours Alsatian's as they sometimes get out...as my brother said,t hats what they are trained to do but if that's the case, they need keeping securely, after all, would you let a lion or Tiger run loose!?
Not nice being a smallholder sometimes :bouquet: :bouquet:
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So sorry Plums, that's truly awful for you :( The only other thing I suggest is to contact your local council as well and ensure they are aware, as there may be a local by-law infringement too. I hope the Police will insist the dogs are kept muzzled and on a lead from now. We have a similar problem dog/owner here and she is compelled to walk it on a lead and muzzled. Local pressure (including warnings of the potential for the animal to be shot) also ensures she does not walk it anywhere near livestock. :hug:
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Are your others looking okay, Plums?
Do you know if the owner is a reasonable sort in general? I know the dogs have got out before but now the owner knows what they are capable of ..... ????
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Everyone is telling me how 'lovely and sorry she is'. Even the farmer. I need her to see the damage her dogs can and DID cause as often I think domestic pet owners are oblivious to potential for harm from their pets.
still waiting for police. don't want to call goodmans to collect the sheep until police have been really.
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Even if it is hard - take pictures as evidence.
Once a dog has had the thrill of chasing and killing - they will do it again! So unless this person is able (and willing) to look after her dogs properly they should be re-trained AND re-homed. You could also check with the RSPCA, although I would normally not be too keen to get them involved in the case of farm animals.
Speak to as many neighbours as possible, if they see these dogs running loose in the future they may be able to call you (and the police) and you (maybe)can prevent them doing it again
However - the chasing and killing of livestock is a criminal offence (as far as I know) and the dog owner should be prosecuted.
So sorry this happened, :bouquet:
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Hope then, that she is genuine and will act accordingly. It's horrible but she should see the photos in order that she fully understands what her dogs are capable of. I don't understand how some people can let their dogs repeatedly "escape" from their property ..... I would be a nervous wreck if I didn't know where my dog was. Okay a one off, mistakes happen, but repeatedly :rant: .
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Exactly that, in the hills. I could (just about) forgive a one off as long as the damage was paid for, if what was thought to be secure wasnt eg if a gale blew down a fence panel and the dog got out. But not when it is repeatedly allowed to stray.
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:bouquet: Hope the owner is a reasonable sort and the police are helpful
Dans
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Oh Plums, so sorry to hear that, you do seem to have a time of it there. In such a nice place you do seem to have inconsiderate people living around you and I really feel for you. It's terrible to be worried when you are not there to look after things. Poor wee whether. You don't want the dogs turning up when your girls are in the field either (children that is) as such big dogs can be overwhelming. I hope you find a solution. There's a cracking smallholding up for sale along the road from me here and it's nice a quiet (and the schools are great) if you need to get away. :wave:
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What a horrible event Plums :hug:
If you haven't already had him taken away it might help to show the dog owner the actual corpse, rather than just pics (you need those tyoo of course for evidence)- that should bring home to her just what kind of attack it was. If you own dogs then you need to be responsible for their behaviour so you will have to talk to her yourself. Let her know she will be paying the bills, including the value of the wether - not if she intends to pay, but that she WILL cough up.
I really hope none of the others has been affected too.
There is, or used to be, a 'sonic fence' you can put up to keep dogs in, which might work to keep them out too :thinking:
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Horrible thing to happen. Think yourself lucky you know which dogs it is and the fact that the owner will have to pay will almost certainly prevent them doing it again as their dogs would likely be destroyed next time. We have had terrible trouble with dogs this year and the people that use the footpath are so ignorant. The amount that carry he lead and let the dogs run riot is unbelievable. Had one lamb with its ears bitten off and front leg ripped away, one lost its tail and three Suffolk's dead through exhaustion after being chased. Unfortunately while I'm pretty certain whose dogs were responsible for one of the attacks because i haven't witnessed it i cant prove it so I'm left having to stand the loss.
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Oh no, how horrid.
If possible, I think she should see the dead sheep so it really strikes home what uncontrolled dogs can do. Not their fault, but she definitely needs to control them properly, particularly big strong dogs like German Shepherds!
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I've suggested she come see the dead sheep, I don't think she will be. She is incredibly emotional about it all and feels just awful, especially when she heard from my farmer friend that its a childs' pet. I've gone from being incredibly angry and wanting to dump the dead carcass on her front lawn (!) to calming down and being rational enough to speak to her for 30 minutes, stressing the non-accidental, non-playful damage that was done and my very real concerns as to her ability to keep her dogs away from my stock/children.
My instincts are telling me that this lady has learned a very harsh lesson yesterday, she is distraught and cried most of the night, she has fitted electric fencing to keep the dogs in and they are on long chains currently.
The distance they covered to get to my house is surprising! It must be around 4 miles.
She is covering ALL costs - vet, carcass collection, new sheep etc. I have her address. I do feel that I have been very lucky in that the lady is admitting full responsibility. I feel for those of you who never see any justice as this has to be one of othe very worst things I've been through in smallholding, poor little sam the lamb! The farmer neighbour has hundreds of sheep and he said last night "Lisa, the one thing that terrifies me is dog attacks..." he lost loads of ewes to dogs a few years back and has the odd attack on his sheep now. Just so unpredictable and you can't prepare.
*Something important I learnt last night that many of you will know but if it can help one person going through this in the future then I feel it worth sharing...The skin of our sheep was ripped in several places but the blood didn't show until it had worked its way through dense, lamb fleece. If you suspect a dog attack do part the fleece, or trim back if poss, as it was only once the vet sheared some off that we could see exactly the extent. It wasn't just the 50p size hole I found at all.
Also...a tampon makes a great 'plug' for large holes in these situations. It helped stem the flow on our lamb really well.
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Oh, bugger Plums, what a horrible thing to happen. My dear little Ouessants were killed by a dog, I felt ill for weeks. The horror does fade though :bouquet:
Make sure you get what the lamb would have been worth had you had it slaughtered and sold to discerning buyers. £350 at least, I would say.
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Thats exactly it Sylvia!! I feel sick. I think you've hit the nail on the head as to how its impacted upon me. Once he's been taken tomorrow, I'll start to feel better. Children have taken it really well, they are so hardy to these things now bless them. the 2 eldest were helping me dress wounds and hold torches last night. I am going to charge her for the lost wether and use the money from that to take the girls out, even if just for a meal somewhere as I think they deserve it after all the lambs were theirs.
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A sad affair Plums, I hope you all manage to have a good Christmas, will think of you all. :hug:
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Glad she is at least doing the right thing Plums and thanks for that advice because I would have assumed the damage if that bad to be obvious without having to look for it.
Pity she hadn't taken measures to secure them before :rant: ...... how could she not realise that 2 big dogs out on their own might end up in trouble one way or another ??? ? ..... Road traffic accident, anything ???
Well done to your girls :thumbsup: :trophy: . What stars.
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How terrible and I hope the owner has learnt just what pet dogs can do when free. I went mad at a woman who's dog was in my field where my mares and foals were. she said I was making a fuss about nothing. I replied in a very angry voice well I hope you feel like that when one of the mares attacks your dog for getting too close to her foal. :rant:
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This is such a horrible attack. I'm glad you found out who the owner is. What sort of owner is she if she can't keep control of her dogs? Why do people have such big dogs if they can't control them? It's all very well being sorry but it's a bit late for your poor wether.
My rare breed chickens were attacked by a Dalmation a few years ago. Apparently my poor little Lavender Pekin was tossed up in the air several times by it. The dog was renowned for escaping and causing mayhem. The owner said 'sorry'.
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So sorry to hear this news :(
I think I would expect the dog's owner to pay:
- Vet's fees for euthinasia
- Cost of carcass removal from farm
- £120 compensation for what you would have been able to get if you'd grown the lamb to full size, and been selling it as meat.
Are you insured? If your insurance is like mine (NFU) I think they will help you to recover the costs. In doing so, you will help the lady to be very aware of what the dogs have done. The insurers do all the contacting, and you can be as nice as you wish to be to your neighbour so she can't tell everyone you are the nasty one.
To get your insurers to act for you, you will need to report the crime (it is one) and have a crime number for them.
I'd recommend trying this route. It is less personal, but should be highly effective. If I was the lady, I'd be putting a muzzle on my dogs voluntarily to stop them causing the same situation a second time.
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So sorry to hear about your sad loss. It sickens me to hear these sad stories people can be so ignorant about how other people live and try to make a living. And how much care and love they put into their animals. I had a cat killed by two Labradors belonging to a neighbour who found it ok for her dogs to chase him he never recovered and she never mentioned it again. I will never get over her attitude and her obvious disregard for life. Perhaps if country file gave 10 mins and showed these ignorant buffoons how upsetting it is for these people that care for their stock and animals. It might help
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This is such a horrible attack. I'm glad you found out who the owner is. What sort of owner is she if she can't keep control of her dogs? Why do people have such big dogs if they can't control them? It's all very well being sorry but it's a bit late for your poor wether.
My rare breed chickens were attacked by a Dalmation a few years ago. Apparently my poor little Lavender Pekin was tossed up in the air several times by it. The dog was renowned for escaping and causing mayhem. The owner said 'sorry'.
I agree with this - I have a rescue Doberman who is not safe with any livestock, and yet I have sheep and my neighbours have sheep and cattle. We spent a large proportion of our renovation budget on installing a mesh 7 foot fence so Dobie could have freedom on our land but our neighbours would also know that he would absolutely never cause them an issue. Apart from wondering if we were going to keep llamas or emus :-DDD, neighbours have been very appreciative (and actually the fence is very useful for lambing as we have split it so he can still have part and lambing ewes have a different part).
Our action was extreme but it really does reflect the degree of responsibility we felt to protect both our own and our neighbours animals, but also our dog's life, and quality of life.
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It does sound as though she might have learned a harsh lesson here - just a shame it was you and your children as well as the poor wether, that had to be there to teach her! :hug:
Let's hope she doesn't just cry, but continues to act to keep her dogs in.