The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: Mel on December 14, 2012, 04:40:48 pm
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Hi all,
Yesterday afternoon I found a huge pile of feathers at the top of the field next to the entrance gate, the feathers were strewn around a 6-8ft area, no chicken found. at the bottom of the paddock I found a girl with her neck broken- and still alive bless her, I had to put her out of her misery, :'( she had two puncture wounds to the back of the neck but the gait was some 2 inches or more, :o That would have to be either one huge fox, or one of the neighbours German shepherds. :thinking:
That neighbour keeps bringing me birds to put out of their misery where their dogs have caught them- and savaged them. I am sick to death of it, she only brings them because she knows I can't see one in pain and it breaks my heart to do it, I am just not a natural born killer!
Whilst I am unable to prove this, I just cannot see it being a fox- killing and taking one, leaving such a huge bed of feathers and leaving on still alive, and leaving all the other chickens- like 40 of them.And when a dog catches something it shakes it around to kill it, is this the same as fox? I would say there were about 50-60% of the feathers of the bird in that pile.
I am certain a fox would kill everything and come back for more, yet today it has been as normal and there is no trail of feathers, whatever killed the other one took the complete bird.
What do you think?
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dog.
foxes are crafty and surgical.
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I would think on balance it was probably 'A' dog, but no way to tell whose dog....or even to be sure. CCTV?
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:bouquet: Sorry, Mel.
Only had the fox come calling on a couple of occasions. First time he took 7 out of 8 birds and was coming back for number 8. All the bodies were gone!! Found some hidden behind the rabbit pen ...... wedged in tight and funny thing ..... NO feathers anywhere.
Other people I have spoken to though, have said that there birds were picked off one at a time.
Not sure which is the most common. I suppose there could be lots of factors eg. foxy was disturbed
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I would tell the neighbour that you think there dogs may be responsible and if you catch them worrying you livestock they will be shot dead. Your neighbours are not responsible enough to own dogs, it's a pity that the dogs May be the ones blamed when it is the owners who are at fault.
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How have the dogs got access to your chooks? Cos the dogs escape or the chooks free-range?
If the former, I think you could tell her what's happened, 'that of course you have no proof but you're really upset and you'd be very grateful if she could just make sure her dogs can't get out and into your chickens, you know what dogs are but the chooks are kind, friendly creatures and it wouldn't be fair for them to be frightened and hurt'. I know it's a bit appeasing but likely to get a better response than threats - save those if you need to and can get irrefutable evidence.
If they're free-ranging into the dogs garden, you might have to add a lot of chicken wire to your boundaries. If it's the latter PM me and I'll send you a photo of my now chicken-proof gate (to keep them out of my flower beds)
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I have a 6ft fence all the way down one side,the bottom is 5ft with barbed wire on top and bottom,up the other side is a mix, from the bottom area an 8ft fence down to 6ft in the next area.
There are only two places that a dog could get through, this year we had a new eco klargester put in, the pipe runs into the ditch adjoining mine and the farm next door. And they do have sheep dogs.
My friend found one of their bitches hiding in behind a bush not long ago-so she knows how to get through, however, he brought her in because she was petrified, this was the week of the 5th of November. When she came in she was such a wreck, I comforted her and she hid kind of in between my legs, shaking like you had never seen.
After about an hour, she had calmed down a bit and I asked Chris to look after her whilst I looked for her owners, I went down the road to the neighbouring farm and 3 lads- and they are lads- flippin parties, pee'd up all the time, out on the street making moonies at drivers,shouting obscenities like you don't know what at livestock, I am sure some bad things go on in there.
Well, when I went around I asked if he had lost a dog/bitch- he just nodded, I said she is around mine,he and the others followed me around, came to the front door and the dog started to shake uncontrollably again, he raised his voice at her and she lowered and walked towards him- you can see how worried she was, he then picked her up by her back and took her off.
That's the last I have seen of any of them, they are a rowdy bunch. I shall tell you now, they are just rich farmers kids whom look down on everyone else as if they are nobody, born with silver spoons in their gobs... And I do not get on with these types and I don't care if it offends.
Come to my place and hear how they treat their livestock, you won't like them either.
Anyway, I feel it may have been the bitch collie back, but this time probably starving- why else would she do it. I thought I would mention that when I left her with Chris, she nipped him.
So, I Am going to report them to RSPCA and defra and everyone else I can find as they need looking in to. You know it is really hard to accept your chooks have been got at, especially when it is a neighbours dog, and like you say jaykay, it is really the owners fault and not the dogs, I could not harm their sheepdogs, especially that bitch as with the right mount of love and training, she would be wonderful and you can't get a dog to knock at your door because it is hungry. I am sure this is what has happened.
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Hi,can you not put some heavy mesh across your end of the pipe big enough to allow most things through but not a dog or fox for that mater.
Graham
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Mel, they sound dreadful!
Yes, if the dog is that scared and they don't take care of their other livestock, maybe someone does need to look into it >:(
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Fox takes the head and neck off the first one killed and kills all the others it can see moving. Some survive because they hide. One body is taken by a bitch for cubs but otherwise all the rest is left.
A dog kills in the same way but usually wouldn't take the head and neck or kill any others.
Unless you photograph their dog killing your chickens you won't get very far. Best secure your boundaries without any compromises Mel. A boundary with just one access point to predators is completely useless. A predator always walks the entire perimeter looking for the best entry point before using it.
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Foxes seem to get the blame for a lot of killing that they probably know not about dogs cats stoats etc are a bloody pest if not looked after not on about food. My neighbour I have mentioned before about her thinks because she walks her dogs ( off lead) on the bridle way she can do anything she likes let the dogs lift nesting birds chase my sheep up and down the fences kill my much loved cat s**t anywhere they wish and generally upset people trying their best to earn a crust. At least with fox problems you can sort it quite easily with lots of methods to help you do it. There's not a lot you can do with a ignorant sellfish obnoxious person like this
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I have had my neighbours 2 little dogs among my birds and the ponies. Ponies went for them and they stay in their own fields now. I had warn the guy that the ponies would do this so now I see them being walked rather than just let out. I was not nasty when I spoke to him, just stated the fact that the dogs could be injured. Before saying anything you need proof which sounds might be hard to get. I would have thought that the culprit would have had blood on it somewhere.
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I would tell the neighbour that you think there dogs may be responsible and if you catch them worrying you livestock they will be shot dead. Your neighbours are not responsible enough to own dogs, it's a pity that the dogs May be the ones blamed when it is the owners who are at fault.
Don't tell people you intend to shoot their dog - that constitutes a threat. If you have to shoot one, just do it, then ring the police to report it.
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Foxes tend to eat one whole then stash the rest. If you find a big pile of feathers it's often a bird of prey. I've see a buzzard pluck every feather off a wood pigeon before eating it, and a sparrowhawk do the same with a dunnock. Both caught birds were still alive for most of the time. I would've scared the raptors off but the caught birds would've died anyway and the raptors would only have found others. Nature's way.
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Mel I find with foxes they'll reek havock by killing several or the whole bunch & just take 1 unless they have cubs in spring & then take them all or most of them & even lambs & bigger poultry >:( >:( I'm sorry to say but I have no experience of dogs killing really except I know terriers shake their prey to death whereas I thought larger dogs would pounce & go for the jugular & also suffocate at the same time like wolves.
As for your comment with the young farmers I'm sorry your having problems & I quote:
"That's the last I have seen of any of them, they are a rowdy bunch. I shall tell you now, they are just rich farmers kids whom look down on everyone else as if they are nobody, born with silver spoons in their gobs... And I do not get on with these types and I don't care if it offends.
Come to my place and hear how they treat their livestock, you won't like them either."
I am actually a trainee veterinary nurse & a young farmer of a similar age hoping to take over the family farm possibly with my 19 year old brother at some point & yes granted we go out & get drunk & party sometimes like the majority of us do (Granted I'm a bit older & wiser & can't stomach the hangovers anymore) but we don't do it often & the same goes for the majority of our friends of the same age & a lot from farming backgrounds & we don't have a silver spoon off our families for a long time we both also have had full-time jobs when working alongside the farm & work our backsides off & treat our animals with respect & just recently my brother has become one of the main vehicle drivers for the farm due to an older family member not being able to.
So when we do go out & have a laugh & come back slightly merry we don't go mooning our neighbors or shouting & swearing & the money spent was money hard earned not given - granted there are some very hard to get on with there & a lot of the time I find older people in the pubs can be just as bad! & you have to take it with a pinch of salt.
So please don't go lumping all young people & young farmers into the same category as everyone likes to have fun within reason & some of us are jolly nice & hard working but sorry you've had trouble with your neighbors x
P.S - I'd also advise on getting CCTV
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I had a neighbours dog grab one of my hens once - the neighbour had him off lead and he ran into the garden of our old house. The neighbour found it hilarious and just stood laughing. I managed to get the spaniel off and the hen lived to tell the tale but was very stressed for ages after. I think the breed of the dog dicates whereabout he/she grabs the chicken, we were lucky it was a spaniel! The german shepherds that killed my sheep went for the jugular and intended to kill.
Not all young farmers are silver spoon fed but when you are struggling against a minority of any kind that find it acceptable to be antisocial and act in an abhorrant way its easy to judge them so I know why you've said that but I'm sure Shropshire lass and her friends are just the sort of people we'd all love to live near :bouquet:
Interesting point SteveHants about the threat. I'd not considered it that way before. We had a poodle prance about with our sheep once and OH said "you know I could shoot your dog if it came back don;t you?" to the owner, makes me see the need to rethink what we say now. Tell you what though, if those German shepherds got back into my stock I'd not think twice now about having them shot - never thought I'd say that but seeing the damage to our lamb made me realise how vulnerable our little smallholding is.