The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: colliewoman on December 11, 2012, 10:47:56 pm
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Hi guys!
I'm in alien territory here so will ask....
I don't usually use licky buckets but as the ground has been so wet this year I have given in an got them a beetlic bucket. I have a Hi Mag bucket (for sheep and cows) in reserve.
I am bringing in a ram this week/next week....can he have the lick or do I need take it away?
Can someone remind me what it is I can feed to a ram please?
I have always had my sheep go to the tup rather than the tup come here so I am inexperienced with the boys!
Thankies ;D
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Ach I'd run the tup on with the ewes until before lambing. Makes keeping them easier rather than having a single sheep to care for, always time consuming. You should be ok with the buckets due to the lower intakes, although I'd be wary of the high mag due to possible problems with urinary calculi. That said, with the lower intakes through the use of the licks and being outside so there is a high moisture content in the diet the problems become more limited. Best speak to the manufacturer and they will give definate answers.
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Do not feed 'ewe rolls' or 'ewe pencils' to a tup. Any general purpose stock feed, you must check whether it is suitable for rams - some are, some aren't.
We always had the red Crystalyx out for the ewes during tupping, but we fed the tup a tup mix from a bucket so he'd get any feed he needed that way and I never saw the tups at the licks. In the same way as I'd check about any general sheep feed, I'd check with the supplier or manufacturer about the licks. I just checked the Crystalyx site, and it would seem tups can be fed the EHE - Extra High Energy - (red) licks. What to feed sheep and when (http://www.caltech-crystalyx.co.uk/index.php/our-range/sheep/what-to-feed-when)
I have also looked for the good info that has been posted on this subject before. Heygates have a really good info page here (http://www.heygatesfeeds.co.uk/SheepFeeds/UrinaryCalculi.aspx).
From the Heygates sheet, one of the key things is that the cake/feed should have a calcium:phosphorous ratio of at least 2:1 and should have no added magnesium. If the ingredients list includes Ammonium Chloride, it's probably fine for tups and wethers.
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If in any doubt speak to the manufacturer, they are always very helpful. I asked the same question re Lifeline buckets last year and Rumenco said they were fine for males too.
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Thanks all!
Dougal. I'm hiring a tup in as with only a small amount of ewes I find it easier than keeping one full time ;)
So when he's done his job he's off back home :thumbsup:
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Do not feed 'ewe rolls' or 'ewe pencils' to a tup. Any general purpose stock feed, you must check whether it is suitable for rams - some are, some aren't.
We always had the red Crystalyx out for the ewes during tupping, but we fed the tup a tup mix from a bucket so he'd get any feed he needed that way and I never saw the tups at the licks. In the same way as I'd check about any general sheep feed, I'd check with the supplier or manufacturer about the licks. I just checked the Crystalyx site, and it would seem tups can be fed the EHE - Extra High Energy - (red) licks. What to feed sheep and when (http://www.caltech-crystalyx.co.uk/index.php/our-range/sheep/what-to-feed-when)
I have also looked for the good info that has been posted on this subject before. Heygates have a really good info page here (http://www.heygatesfeeds.co.uk/SheepFeeds/UrinaryCalculi.aspx).
From the Heygates sheet, one of the key things is that the cake/feed should have a calcium:phosphorous ratio of at least 2:1 and should have no added magnesium. If the ingredients list includes Ammonium Chloride, it's probably fine for tups and wethers.
I have had first hand experience of loosing a Tup through feeding Ewe nuts, But one thing i had not even thought about was castrated lambs, when i feed my Ewes starting around 4/6 weeks before lambing i have a walk through feeder set up in the barn:- I can walk along in the middle and the Ewes stick their heads through. Once lambing has finished i carry on feeding the Ewes but what i did not give any thought to was the early lambs often climb through and eat the nuts including any intact Ram Lambs as well as castrated. Im going to have to have a rethink
Many thanx Sally for the Heygates link
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Hi mag bucket at this time of year is a waste of your money. The sheep don't need it at this time of year. They really need it when they are milking hard and the grass is growing quickly - second half of march through to end of May, depending on when you lamb. They don't need it before you lamb. Definately a no-no for a tup.
Get them a high energy block if they really need something. If they have a good block and enough forage, either grass, hay or silage, they shouldn't really need cake until lambing gets much closer.
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Hi mag bucket at this time of year is a waste of your money. The sheep don't need it at this time of year. They really need it when they are milking hard and the grass is growing quickly - second half of march through to end of May, depending on when you lamb. They don't need it before you lamb. Definately a no-no for a tup.
Get them a high energy block if they really need something. If they have a good block and enough forage, either grass, hay or silage, they shouldn't really need cake until lambing gets much closer.
Thanks VSS
I only cake them enough at the moment to keep them tame ;)
Hi mag buckets were bought as a buy one get one free (as were the beetlics :thumbsup: ) so will do no harm sitting in the feed shed waiting till spring. But it sounds like what I have going on feedwise at the moment is going to do rammy no harm which is what I was concerned about :relief:
Thanks again all!
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From the Heygates sheet, one of the key things is that the cake/feed should have a calcium:phosphorous ratio of at least 2:1 and should have no added magnesium.
Note the 'should have no added magnesium'. For the avoidance of doubt, just in case it's ambiguous to anyone else reading this thread for guidance at a later date - the Hi Mag licks are not safe for tups.
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Aye, I thought the purpose of hi-mag licks was to help prevent twin lamb disease - I give my biddies hi-mag licks at lambing.
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Aye, I thought the purpose of hi-mag licks was to help prevent twin lamb disease - I give my biddies hi-mag licks at lambing.
Aye, here too. In the last 8 weeks before lambing, or if any start exhibiting twin lamb type symptoms, earlier.
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High Magnesium buckets are to prevent Hypomagnesia -or magnesium deficiency. This occurs in ewes post lambing in the spring when the quickly growing grass is itself deficient in Magnesium. Mag buckets are not particularly palatable so they tend to last quite well.
Hi Mag buckets won't prevent Twin Lamb. The technical name for it is Hypoglycaemia - basically glucose / energy deficiency. You need to give high energy buckets to help prevent it, although if you are feeding your sheep correctly according to the number of lambs they are carrying, it will not be a common occurance anyway.
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Ah, I think the beetlic hi-mag has both ends covered then. I don't give it as early as 8 weeks though - usually 2 weeks before lambing because I don't want the lambs too big - lambing April though so plenty of grass for energy. I would also not expect young ewes to need supplimenting - my biddies are.....5+
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Well my tups get the same as my ewes and have done for all the years ive been sheep farming , which is very many. Ive never had any issues but then then only get them for the month there with the ewes.and i always feed ewe rolls 16% . The ewes always have a energy lick with them at tupping , then again month b4 lambing , All the ewes are in the heptavec p system . Once in lamb they get turned away till 6 weeks b4 lambing on next doors dairy farm they do well on cow grass :).The only issue with high mag buckets is if you get one or two ewes that gorge on them which may be an issue u shouldnt need hi mag buckets unless you have an is with low levels of magnesium in your land . Just watch your tup when hes with the ewes if your feeding they can sometimes be a bit full of them selves and may be give u a dap in the back of the legs , but a sharp crack across the nose soon sorts it . I dont think there are any rules carved in stone when feeding livestock, its all about your farm ,and what your systems are. what grass you have , what the nutritive value of your hay/haylage is , what its DM is ( dry matter) and its CP ( crude protein) its always worth having an analasis done on it could save you apacket . Feeding is alot about common sense i think, keep an eye on your ewes a good indication of how they are doing is if they play, this may seem weird but my shearlings are like little lambs , they skip about like lambs playing in the spring , even though there in lamb , this is always a good sign there doing and healthy its a scream to watch on a sunny morning .