The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: plumseverywhere on December 06, 2012, 11:40:12 am
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Once we have reduced the fox population over the next few days and once the electric fence etc is all 100% safe again, I'd like to consider replacing my lost hens with ex batts.
Is this a good or silly idea? I have just the 6 years chicken keeping experience and have only had hybrids up till now.
wondering about pro's and cons' and considerations please?
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Six years experience will do you nicely Plums. ;) ;D They are no different to keeping any other hen IMO. We collected 4 last January ..... they were part of my daughters xmas present .... she liked the idea of giving some a bit of a life. Bit tatty on collection but soon couldn't tell them from other hybrids. They were laying when collected and surprisingly continued until their moult this autumn. They needed putting to bed at dusk as they had no idea what to do ::) , this continued for quite a few weeks but not a difficult task as they were kept in isolation from rest of flock initially. VERY tame, almost stupidly so ..... didn't move from under your feet when you tried to walk, stood there when all the others scattered as a bird of prey went over and although my dog is completely safe with hens, so not a problem, they had no clue that maybe you should move when a big black brute is hurtling towards you!!! Soon clicked though and now behave just the same as the others.
Feed layers mash to start with as this is all they know but again within no time onto pellets and corn.
Ours are EXTREMELY docile so good for children to handle.
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Ergh - where do you get ex batt hens these days, seeing that keeping hens in batteries is illegal now? ???
I know you can get ex freerange hens here... Not the same, of course. You wouldn't be "rescuing" them, just prolonging their life. I've thought of that myself. The ones I know of would have had more freedom than they could ever get in my garden.
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well this is what confused me but its the battery hen rescue trust i was researching it all on
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aaagh! me being really dense - it now stands for british hen welfare trust not battery :innocent: lack of sleep lol!! still nice to rescue some hens though ;)
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Ah - all is explained now... :D
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I had an email from BHWT this morning....they have a whole load coming in from enriched cages.
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they gave me a date for Coventry on 22nd but I've booked family tickets for the footie in watford that day. I shall sit tight for January. Although would prefer a bristol venue as easier to get to than coventry even if COv is nearer as cros (or hen) flies. Do you have some Mrs Snoodles?
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Ours were from near Ellsmere, Plums. Think it's a regular pick up point. Not sure if it's any easier for you to get to?
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It could be, In the Hills thanks! will get a map and look. :chook:
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Yes We do Plums. We picked up 20 last Xmas and they have be wonderful. My 7 yr old has run an egg business out of them and they paid for the pigs feed. We have about 10 left. They did really well though. We lost only one hen in the early days and that was because she got swept into some panelling by a stupidly strong gust of wind, poor love. There are some at Baylam in Suffolk on Dec 16th. I can't recommend exbatts enough, lovely friendly birds despite all the crap they have endured.
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Ergh - where do you get ex batt hens these days, seeing that keeping hens in batteries is illegal now? ???
A common misconception. The cages are a little bit bigger that's all.
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My experience is that they dont last very long free ranging - Out of 10 fetched in July (kept non free range and separate for about a month and integrated gradually), I only have 4 left. 1 'went' early days, one was picked off by the fox. 1 killed by vet (for the 'greater good' of a postitve diagnosis of gape worm - not convinced, and £18 poorer), then a month ago one fell off perch in night and anothr 2 taken by fox last week. They have also started laying soft shelled eggs - a sign that they are getting on a bit in laying terms. I think they could go on to have much longer lives non free ranging and with a bit more cosseting, but they certainly arnt doing well in the long life front here - but I figure its more than they would have had. I'm not surprised they are knackered, when they did lay, the eggs were about 3 x the size of normal eggs - wouldnt fit in standard boxes. Poor lovelies. This is my second lot and I would take some again if I felt there were some that needed homes........ but at my collection point (Oswestry) there was a queue of posh cars, most people picking up 4 @£10 each, they wernt keen on me having 10 (its about £20 petrol for me to get there, so I wasnt going for 4 again, which is waht they let me have last time) and were really sniffy at my 'donation' of £20. So I'll leave it to the pet brigade I think. Hope you have better luck - its a great cause, but too expensive for me to join in with :(
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oh no Fib, that's worried me a bit. only 4 and having to pay £40? that might put lots of people off as you can buy layers from dom fowl trust for 15 each without the petrol as its about 2 miles from here :-\ I would hope that with respect to the fox, they wouldn't be picked off as they'd be fenced in and we'll have got rid of some of the injured foxes that seem to be hanging about. :fc:
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this might be a bit controversial, but ive always considered taking ex batts to be a way of supporting the industry tbh.
if i were you, id buy some proper good stock, from an established high welfare local breeder, in an attempt to a, reduce kiddy heartbreak, and b, support someone who is doing it properly.
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I see where you are coming from DITW. I think the egg buyers are the ones truly supporting it though as its no skin off the producers noses if the birds are culled or rescued is it? don't know. Haven't looked into it properly (yet). I just wanted to do something kind now I'm in a position to (ie. no blardy birds left thanks to foxy) but I have the other option of buyin in day old hens from DFT down the road too. Oh decisions decisions!
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Plums, I think the girls would love the day old chicks. Stick to your original plan and get them in the spring when you can enjoy them most.
Sally
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Plums, I think the girls would love the day old chicks. Stick to your original plan and get them in the spring when you can enjoy them most.
Sally
would be nice for the children. I think if anything happened to rescue hens I'd feel doubly awful (and you know how sappy I am about things dying!!)
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...didnt want to put you off :-[ ... but to share exp (note I only payed £2 a bird.... and your rescue centre might be a little less oversubscribed and posh) - if yours are fenced in, I'm sure they would have a better chance. Vet said they are vaccinated to the hilt, but less able to deal with the worms and parasites that they come accross free ranging and in a 'normal' environment. They are very friendly and would fill your sheds whilst waiting for more chick friendly weather (I dont think I could wait till spring !!!! ). I'm addicted to hatching now so thats the way forward for me, although Id never say never! I have had the same thoughts as DitW, its a toughy (especially when they have had sucha short lease of extra life here (12 months was longest I think) - but to see them feathering up, and getting all glossy, to see them scratching around and sunbathing in a dustbath (usually my raised beds!!! ;D I pretty much gave up on those this year!!!) as they were meant to IS a treat. Good luck wahtever and hope you have some chickeny friends agan soon :fc:
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Plums, I gave about £4 per bird and collected only 4 ...... our collection was nr Oswestry ....... we weren't in a posh car though FiB. :roflanim: It depends what your reason for having them is. In my very humble opinion, if people want just a few really good layers I don't think you can beat the reliability of modern hybrids :sofa: . I keep pure breeds, utility strain RIR,s , pekins and all sorts ..... so have tried them all!!!! My daughter liked the idea of rescuing some and they did learn quite a lot from it eg. more about the caged bird industry, saw how birds are transported (in crates), the condition of birds kept in the system, how the birds did not initially behave like "chickens", led to lots of discussion on modern farming.
Hatching is also good fun though ...... quail have a short life cycle and are good for children to observe .... from hatching to laying in 6/8 weeks.
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Taking ex-batt enriched cages only saves the hens, not the industry. They were destined for pet food otherwise and costs have been calculated on that basis. Just that most are in such a poor shape they are past saving anyway. The cost charged for them is to fund the rescue centres.
Noted the 'gapeworm' diagnosis FiB. Probably a vet mis-diagnosed respiratory infection as usual -a very familiar story.
Ex-batts are fragile birds and initial losses can be high, induced I presume by the stress caused by their new environment. Whilst it is undoubtably good for them, they don't like change. But I have heard of survivors lasting and laying for years.
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The first chickens we ever had were ex batts. They settled in to life here very quickly, laid a lot of eggs for about a year, but then faded away quite quickly and most had died about six months after that. I culled the last couple as they hadn't laid an egg for ages and were not particularly healthy birds.
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They just need teaching how to be hens again, the last ones didn't even know what to do with worms. They look awful but the difference in a month is amazing. It can be very traumatic for them the whole day being moved around, new environments, food etc. They can be fragile and the care you give them in the first month makes loads of difference, but having said that despite your best efforts some just don't make it. They usually have had a whole load of vaccinations too.
We've had lots over the past couple years even some I picked up 3 years ago. All are free range in a flock that has other rescues and our own pure breeds. We give them a retirement home we don't count the eggs because their not machines anymore they've had enough hard work for a lifetime and the funny shapes and 'wrinklies' and a bit different.
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Plums ...we paid £3
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We picked up 10 ex-batts at the end of March this year. They had some bare bellies, wings or necks but overall not as bad as on some photoghraphs on the internet. We paid £5 per bird.
2 passed away in the summer, and one around Halloween. The others are thriving and all bar one are laying nearly every day (the one who doesn't, doesn't lay at all). We don't cull non-layers.
There were a number of soft shelled and shell-less eggs in the first few weeks, and runny egg whites, but they all improved.
All hens grew feathers during spring / summer and egg production dropped then, but the egg numbers are up again now despite decrease in daylight. One hen has been laying thin shelled eggs for about 2 months now (she's the only one who didn't grew feathers until late summer, and her eggs have been thin shelled ever since - might be an uberlong moult ??? ).
They were wary of cats, dogs and people when they arrived, and it took 2 weeks before they'd eat corn from my hand. After that they became tame quite quickly. This summer they were sitting on my lap and shoulder, trying to eat my glasses and wondering if a laptop is edible. :D They're in a fox-proof run. One of them is a right curtain-twitcher - as soon as she hears something, she's up on the pallets that line the run to keep an eye on what's going on :D
IMO, buying ex-batts through the BHWT or a similar organisation doesn't support the industry at all as the farmer doesn't get paid - though buying the hens directly from a farmer does give him tax-free pocket money.
I'm planning on having some Cream Legbars next year just for the colour of the eggs, but will have ex-batts again. :excited:
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Pretty sure I read on a poultry forum that they do pay the farmers for the hens :thinking:
We've had ex free range system ones before and they were in pretty poor shape to start with but layed well after a while. Got a few left now but they do have a tendency to just expire without warning!
We also 'rescued' some once from a guy who raised them up to POL to go into the system! Vaccinated for everything and we felt good cause we saved them from a bad, short life.
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When I got my last lot 2 years ago it was 50p a bird the farmers got form BHWT
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So not exactly a money making scheme - as opposed to those farmers selling them directly to the public at £2 each - as they get very little when the birds go for dog food, a similar amount I thought, pennies.
The first information we received that talked about reimbursing the BHWT stated that a donation is usually around £4, but after we had reserved our hens we received another email saying £5 was the norm. This is in Hertfordshire, and I don't know whether or not they are oversubscribed. Compared to the cost of the run, paying a fiver for the chickens is nothing, though ;D I'm surprised to read on this topic how many of the birds die so soon - I thought that with 3 out of 10 gone after 8 months with us we were doing badly and maybe, unknowingly, were doing something wrong :relief:
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Good Evening
I have only had chickens for about two years and have only had ex battery hens. I wouldn't have anything else. I love them dearly. I have had 24 ex battery hens plus two cockerels. I have lost 5 hens and a cockrel to a fox and have lost 7 hens and a cockrel to natural causes and dogs. Although i now have 10 ex battery hens who are all very happy and are laying well.
They may not lay as much as bought hens but they still keep producing plenty of eggs to keep me going. They are all super friendly considering what they have been though. There is definitely nothing more rewarding than seeing them get stronger and flourishing from the day you get them onwards.
I would highly recommend them. If you are still fancying getting some visit the British hen welfare trust website which will give you all the information you need to know. On the website you can register and the welfare trust will find you the best location to pick your hens up from and the available dates. They will also advise on any extra special care they require.
They may look awful and feather bare to begin with but they will soon find their feet.
There website is www.bhwt.org.uk (http://www.bhwt.org.uk)
Hope this helps
Regards
Emily
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Nice to hear of your experience, Emily, I really like our ex-batts, too - they got over their initial shyness quite quickly and one of them is now a right little diva :D
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We had some a few years ago and they were bolshy, fun characters who laid well and lasted a few years (one actually lasted nearly 5!).
We then got another lot a couple of years ago, from Little Hen Rescue at Norwich, and we rescued a rooster too (Brutus). He was fabulous whilst they were "ok". Never a huge amount of eggs (4 between the 12 of them) and seemed to die very easily. BUT, we incubated some of their eggs and their daughters are AMAZING layers. Still laying one blue egg a day as we speak (Brutus was a legbar cross). His sons were horrible temprement wise and went to the pot.
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Now there's a thought... Crossing a cream legbar with an ex-batt... Food for thought!