The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: feldar on December 06, 2012, 10:47:45 am
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Well it looks like we been cursed again. Hubby just lambed a shearling with a smallenberg lamb.
Lamb had head fused backwards and twisted front legs he unfortunately pulled one front leg off trying to get it out. He finally got his hand on the back legs and manipulated lamb around and got it out. Very dead. Has fused long neck extra long back legs, one is not jointed properly and head is fused around to one side. Jaw is parrot mouthed.
The afterbirth is white??? very strange not had that before.
We phoned VLA they don't want it as it is not the first this year, apparently poll dorsets have been hit first and also the government has cut the funding to test for these lambs, so they can only take a small quota. Nice of the Government to do that looking after the farmer again.
Anyway vet has confirmed Smallenberg by a visual, but to be honest we saw it such a lot last year it can't be anything else.
Ewe is a bit in shock, she had such a time of it, so we will have to give her some TLC over the next few days.
4 lambs born other than that, everyone of those ok, so this must be a ewe that didn't get bitten last year. Just hope she's a one off!!
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:bouquet: :bouquet: :bouquet: Sorry Feldar. :fc: that you have no more, must be awful to deal with.
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So sorry. Just hope this is the only one.
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Very sorry to hear you've had this again this year. :(
I think the rest of us (non-early lambers) are praying dearly that we tupped late enough to miss the midges, or that our girls got infected pre-tupping. :fc:
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Damn sorry to read that, hope I never see one, that's probably a forlorn hope though :-\
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(((((Hugs))))) sorry to hear that, midges still flying here :(
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Really bad news. So sorry that this happened again to you :bouquet:
Sally
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Sorry to hear about that feldar :bouquet: :fc: she's the only one somehow didn't get bitten before she was tupped.
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Had two born this morning with it - extra joints, fused joints, under-bite, twisted spine. One delivered by herself, the other needed assistance. Thought at one point I was lambing him sideways as the front leg wasn't attached to the shoulder blade. Two weeks early too.
We're near Wincanton for what it's worth - don't know if anyone else is near us and due to lamb soon.
Devastated.
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How awfull, poor ewes having to go through all that and how hard for you all having dead lambs :bouquet:
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Just saw this thread and my heart sank, so so sorry guys....not nice :hug:
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So sorry that this is hitting you guys again :-*
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There's a case in Somerset a friend of ours has had to lamb 3 ewes with problems. 2 had dead twisted lambs and the third had live not so bad lambs but they have since died. So i'm afraid this dam disease is here to stay. We have a ewe due soon who had SBV lambs last year so it will be interesting to see what she has this year, will keep you posted
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I'd heard it is all over the south west now.
From what I understand, there may be a vaccine by next year. I wonder if it is now endemic in our midges, if it is, I suppose most animals will get bitten when the midges first come out, which this year was probably late, but in 'normal' years could be early enough to make sure the early lambers avoid it. I can't imagine what a bloody nightmare it will be at lambing outdoors.
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So sorry to read this Feldar & TheC.- especially after what you went through last year Feldar - keeping all my finger :fc: for all of you out there lambing
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Had two born this morning with it - extra joints, fused joints, under-bite, twisted spine. One delivered by herself, the other needed assistance. Thought at one point I was lambing him sideways as the front leg wasn't attached to the shoulder blade. Two weeks early too.
We're near Wincanton for what it's worth - don't know if anyone else is near us and due to lamb soon.
Devastated.
Oh no!
I'm in Pilton! I hope to all the gods that the fact I'm not tupping til next week might have paid off :-\
My heart breaks for every shepherd who has to go through this, I can think of nothing worse :bouquet: :bouquet: :bouquet:
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Oh dear, I'm really sorry to hear about this again. I'm in Wiltshire and start lambing end Jan so praying I don't see any. I struggle to lamb normally without this type of complication.
Very depressing for all concerned
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How dreadful - really sorry to hear you are having to go through this again Feldar and TheCaptain. i really hope the rest are ok :bouquet:
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Thankyou for your support
Lambed another SBV shearling at 5.00 this morning, OH did a brilliant job. legs came off and so did half the head when we put twine around it to get some pull.
We worked out our shearlings went to just South of Winchester last year for some tack. they were on meadow fields near a river so we just assumed they would get bitten like all the older ewes have, but there must be pockets of areas that haven't seen SBV even in the South, so they got bitten when they came back to us to go to ram.
Any of you first time lambers out there just a word of warning i am not trying to frighten you, but here's a few tips.
Older ewes cope better, they can open up more. If you suspect a shearling has it, treat carefully, you can hole her uterus by trying to get lamb out, maybe think vet for those.
Don't let your ewes go on trying to push for too long before intervening they will dry up and become very tired, these lambs take alot of getting out and your ewes need not to be exhausted
Be aware legs etc come off easily, so go careful, when pulling them.
DON'T PANIC think of your ewe first. these lambs do come out and if your careful your ewe will breed again.
Hope that helps ;D
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I'm so sorry to hear it's still ongoing for you Feldar :( , it sounds horrific but good to have that information. I wonder to what extent lambs will be affected next year, for all of us? :-\ Sheep seem susceptible to so many bizarre things :-\
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So sorry to hear that you are going through more SBV lambings again this year Feldar, thank you for sharing your experiences and the advice given, very useful as there are certainly going to be more of us having to deal with this year. I hope your ewe due that had it last year has no problems with her lambs this time, will be interested to hear.
I am regretting having put the tup in with some of ewe lambs this time as its going to be very difficult extracting problem lambs from them if they are infected, and I read yesterday that the advice is not to breed ewe lambs. Feeling quite concerned after speaking with our scanner last week, the virus has definately been circulating in our area (Shropshire/Powys borders) recently with active cases confirmed in nearby cattle flocks. Our tups went in with the main flock in late August, so we have to be prepared for some problems, only hope not too many.
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Awful news feldar and the captain :hug: :hug:
After keeping up with the posts of devastation this virus caused many of you last year, I was really hoping you would have a virus free lambing season this year.
My heart goes out to you :bouquet: :fc: there aren't too many more cases but it doesn't sound promising :'(
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The NSA says:
Rumours rife about effect of Schmallenberg on early lambing flocks – but lack of firm evidence puts industry in very difficult position.
Following hot on the heels of rumours of Schmallenberg (SBV) causing low scanning rates, the talk is now of high losses in early lambing flocks. The consequences for the farmers affected are terrible, but it is absolutely essential that any suspected cases are tested with the aim of identifying whether SBV is definitely the culprit. Just as fluke and poor nutrition can also cause low scanning rates, there other issues that can cause losses at lambing time.
While it is not paying for testing in counties that have already had Schmallenberg confirmed, AHVLA is stressing that the cost of £6 per test of blood, body fluid or brain is a subsidised price. However, farmers will have to pay for their vet’s time on top of that.
NSA is in regular contact with MSD Animal Health regarding the vaccine, but there is no update yet on when it will be available. We are also very concerned that we will not know how best to use the vaccine when it does come on sale (i.e. vaccinate whole flock versus specific animals), so NSA is working on possible alternatives to gathering best practice information, given that AHVLA is not collecting data. We hope to be able to provide more on this in next week’s update.
It is a very frustrating situation and the lack of information is creating a lot of anger and unease – but we do urge members to treat anecdotal accounts of losses with a pinch of salt, test where appropriate and be assured that we will do our best to keep you all updated.
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feldar, I'm so sorry to hear your news. Just getting back into sheep after a break (well, actually, a fractured spine) but everything has changed - ID, health, etc.
Hope you find your way through all this. Will be watching your posts with interest x
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Good grief :o i'm not sure i'd want to get into anything after a fractured spine! you are brave.
Lambed another shearling today, lovely twin so all ok. Looks like a few just didn't get bitten last year, only 2 SBVs so far, so we are quietly confident we may have got away with it :fc: . We had a lot more last year but we still have 8 more shearlings to go.
All the older ewes have been fine this year :fc:
Spoke on facebook to our friends in the Hamp society so far they have been hit in Cornwall, somerset and Lincolnshire
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According to the lecture at southsheep, schmall should be worst around the edges of its geographical range, so I hope you have seen the last of it for this season.
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it's not all doom and gloom!
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Aw very sweet! ;D
No you are right we are having lots of live lambs as well just the occasional SBV one and sometimes one of a twin with it but the other ok.
In fact we've had some very nice lambs born so we may well make the show ring next year yet!!
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Nice pic :thumbsup: Cap'n. All lambs are sweet, but Portlands especially so :love: :sheep:
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Oh, so sorry to hear your news. Thinking of you as the lambing season unfolds and hoping you have seen the worst of it now... Hoping :-\
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Can Schmallenburg spread from animal to animal??
Had two abortions on the dairy farm last week so under investigations, worried it can spread to my sheep?
:bouquet: to everyone affected
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SBV is transmitted by midges. Any infection happened some time ago and there is no evidence of any other transmission process.
There's a load of information, badly presented, here (http://www.defra.gov.uk/animal-diseases/a-z/schmallenberg-virus/)
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As SF says, it's transmitted by midges. So it can only transfer from cattle to sheep, or sheep to other sheep, when there are (actively biting) midges about to carry it.
Equally, when the cattle contracted it - probably around 6-8 months ago to be having birth defects now - then there must've been biting midges about at that time to infect the cattle, whereever they were. If they were near your sheep at that time, then hopefully your sheep contracted it then and will now be immune. :fc:
The birth defects arise when the disease is contracted in the first 1/3 or so of the pregnancy, they say.
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Had a bad night, we had to shoot a ewe. The lambs were so twisted up in her hubby couldn't separate them. He could get them apart initially but when he tried to lamb her the fused legs caught around each other and two lambs just kept coming together.
Ewe was getting tied and in pain so we made a decision and put her out her misery.
I know some would say why not c-section her but i'm afraid our ewes are not pets and it's just not financially viable for us to pay for a relitively older ewe to be operated on when she is only worth a cull ewe price in the end.
My hubby would not entertain lambing her again, she lost her lamb last year but we fostered twins on to her, so it is a shame but i know it's for the best, this would have been her last year anyway.
On a happier note i did lamb a lovely big ewe lamb this morning from one of our show ewes so the positives cancell out the negatives. I just wish we didn't have any negatives!!
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So sorry Feldar - I read you posts with trepidation - hoping its good news.
But its good to know what this virus can cause.
Good luck with 'big show lamb'
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Lovely to see the picture of "The Captain`s" Portland Lamb :love: .
With the threat of Smallenberg hanging over us all, doesn`t it make every healthy lamb born EXTRA SPECIAL :sheep: :love: .
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just looking at the captains pic i was think how could the tribe of 7 we got from him of been so cute lol
one very cheeky and all always hungry.but all lovely in there own way
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Sad news Feldar for everyone concerned :( . Was this ewe with the ones you mentioned earlier as i thought it was just shearlings you sent away then brought back?
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Yes she was! it would appear two ewes can be grazing in the same field next to each other and one get bitten and the other not. So some of our older ewes have it too.
We bought a ewe from Devon and she lambed this morning, nice ram lamb, so she must have been bitten this summer but the ewe we had to shoot has never left the farm and she had SBV. Very frustrating, because we can't rely on natural immunity, we will have to vaccinate when it becomes available.
We could blood test but i hate to think how much that would cost.
There are still midges and moths flying around even after all this cold weather! just hope the infected ones have died!!
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Yeah - I saw midges up on the tops of the downs a couple of weeks before I put the rams in....had me excessiveley paranoid, that.
Apparently some flocks literally next to me had it last year and I didnt - but all the ones I know who have had it have been early lambers.
I really hope I dont get it, chasing down Schmal ewes is not going to be fun.
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I'm hoping my lot were bitten after shearing, midges can't find much skin to bite on a woolled up Greyface Dartmoor! Start lambing next month so time will tell :fc: .
Sorry to hear you are going through it again Feldar / The captain, here's hoping you don't see any more....
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I think all you late lambers will probably be ok :fc: mainly because your ewes should have been bitten by the time the tup goes in also the cold must slow the midges down surely. If you did get any i would have thought it would only be a few because we've only really had a small amount in a flock of 50+ lambers.
Had a crazy morning though. Have you ever had 2 ewes lamb, one a twin the other a single and 3 sheep are laying claim to one lamb , one laying claim to other and no-one wanted the third! took a while to sort that one out i can tell you! at one point had lambs and sheep going in all directions, all hollering for each other and one near to lambing, being a pain in the bum, cause she wanted all of them and kept beating her way into the pen. I was exhausted by the time i got them all sorted and fed. Then i had to go to work ::)
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Have you ever had 2 ewes lamb, one a twin the other a single and 3 sheep are laying claim to one lamb , one laying claim to other and no-one wanted the third! took a while to sort that one out i can tell you! at one point had lambs and sheep going in all directions, all hollering for each other and one near to lambing, being a pain in the bum, cause she wanted all of them and kept beating her way into the pen. I was exhausted by the time i got them all sorted and fed. Then i had to go to work ::)
No, thank god!!!
Just been arguing with the vet about the bill received for them coming out to see the dead lambs, even though we said we'd take them to the surgery as we suspected schmallenberg but she didn't believe it would be so had to see the ewes - and they wonder why farmers don't bother informing them!!!
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Just come in from lambing one of x breed ewes. Twins both with SBV, too distressed to put into words how awful that was. Truly gutted for the little mites and for the ewe as she turned out to be a really good mum, thankfully she seems to be doing alright. 4 out of 5 with SBV, not good times :(
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Captain I'm so sorry :bouquet:
I can hardly imagine what it must be like. :hug:
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I feel for you :'( wish there was something that could be done to stop it all >:(
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God, that's dire. I'm so sorry.
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Had a deformed lamb this Spring (our first ever) as did my neighbour across the valley who runs 300 ewes. Got mine PM'd and told not SBV. Neighbour two miles away had 4 deformed. Suspect SBV in all cases, just not identified in the one we took to the AHVL. Some of the local farms have had such low scanning results this month they've sent the scanner home.
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One of the other side effects of this disease is very low fertility, we had this last year. My heart goes out to you Captain, it's not good and there is nothing we can do about it except carry on.
My ewes that have had SBV lambs we've put them out in a spare paddock after jabbing up with antibiotics, luckily they've come through it ok and seem very bright considering the way we pulled them about getting the lambs out. I was worried we had holed them but it would have shown by now. Nothing like Doctor green grass to get them interested in life again.
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Green grass?
Makes a change from 'Muddy swamp" I suppose. ;)
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Well our ewe who had SBV positive lambs in the spring of this year has lambed again. Her lambs were the ones we took to the VLA centre. Anyway she has had a very nice ewe lamb just a single but i don't care what's more important is both mum and baby are fine and the lamb is normal.
So it looks like the immunity is true and the ewes can go on to breed normally again when they've had SBV lambs before, phew :relief: I know the literature said they could but i wanted to see it with my own eyes first.
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:relief: I dread seeing this topic even come up again! sooo pleased this time its good news :excited: :excited:
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As knaisha says - always read for the info but slightly dread clicking the button - so glad your now having a bit of better news to post
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:thumbsup: So glad, at least a positive there.
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Just spoken to my scanner - due in late January as we put the tups in later in the hope we'd miss SBV. He's scanned one flock of 27 pedigree ewes and found only one lamb and heard from one early lamber that ten of his lambs have SBV. They scanned out as normal - he once scanned twins in one of our ewes and said one of them didn't look right and it never appeared, so must've got reabsorbed. Pity it doesn't happen with SBV.
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It's dire isn't it :( :(
We have only got two more ewes to lamb this batch then we start again in late January early Feb for the next batch. So i'm hoping these will all be ok.
Hope everything is going to be ok with you
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We are in the Marches too Marches farmer and the virus was definately active during earlier tupping season in the area according to our scanner. We have been surprised with some of the ewes, ie young healthy ewes that have lambed before and no reason to be barren, that were scanned empty this time, they had been tupped and not seen to return, and several with lambs being absorbed. I think SBV probably does cause reabsorbtion in some cases, with you though wish all of them affected were absorbed, not looking forward to what we will probably be having to deal with at lambing time. We start mid to late January, but the majority will be lambing in February through to March. Just have to hope for the best and that not too many will be affected :(
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It's dire isn't it :( :(
We have only got two more ewes to lamb this batch then we start again in late January early Feb for the next batch. So i'm hoping these will all be ok.
Hope everything is going to be ok with you
If they are - it would hold with most of the experinces of people lambing in two batches that I have heard from, so fingers crossed.
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Heard on the grapevine that DEFRA have asked all vets in farm animal practices not to take leave during the main 2013 lambing and calving season.
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I think there is quite a bit of 'denial' going on in this area. A lot of commercial Dorset flocks are lambing and there are some completely conflicting reports on the grapevine. Mine don't start until 20th March so I hope to miss it...but I can't say I am looking forward to lambing this year :( .
So sorry for all those affected.
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I think you are right re the denial at government level, chief vet was saying that its not any more of a problem that farmers are faced with on a regular basis, I am not sure that will be the case for those with badly affected flocks at lambing time, guess they are just hoping that the majority of flocks will not be affected. We are due to start lambing in 2 to 3 weeks time and have just heard from a farmer neighbour of a farmer friend of his who started lambing this month and so far has lost 50% of his lamb crop, about 20 miles from us. I think a lot of early lambing flocks have to expect problems, for once I am pleased that we have a rather spread out lambing.
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I dont think the goverment or farmers for that matter want too much of it in the news - public panick over british meat supplies could wreck the industry when its just starting to look a little better.
Alot of the true figures I fear will go unreported - and figures will not be able to be collerated by government agencies.
Locally we'll know the truth and its not looking good.
We havnt tupped this year. Only a few 'accidentals'.
x to all - horrible situation to be dealing with.
Baz
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I think there has been a lot of covering up, especially by the farming press.
We know people from the West Country who only have 1/3 of there lamb crop this year. I know some reports will get blown out of proportion, but we have friends who talk about bags of dead lambs going to the knackers, so i think there's very much an impact.
I think it will die a death once the vaccine comes out, a bit like Bluetongue and we will hope fully see this horrible disease if not dissappear it will lessen and be a thing of the past.
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In-lamb Texels were going for killing prices at market yesterday - no-one wants to take the risk.
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I was interested to read today that Defra consider SBV to be a 'low impact' disease .... >:(
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I was interested to read today that Defra consider SBV to be a 'low impact' disease .... >:(
Of course - it's low impact for Defra as there's nothing for them to do !
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on the westcountry news tonight, just said the forecast is up to 50% of the crop here has been lost. low impact??
they also said that farmers were reporting but it wasnt getting through to defra, and this meant that there wasnt sufficient pressure to press for the development of the vaccine.
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Just finished the first batch for this season got two ewes for late January that went to the sweeper ram then we start again in early March. i thought it was Feb but according to hubby i've got another month's grace!
We've had no more SBVs so i'm hopeful the later batch willl all be ok
Our friend in Somerset had the vet to a huge lamb they coudn't get out of the ewe. The vet gave up as well, it was too big to take out by C section as he said he would have to open her so wide she would be useles afterward, plus the lamb was dead. they shot the ewe and out of interest did a PM. the lamb that came out weighed 15 kgs!!! no i'm not kidding you it was huge and twisted up and had fluid retained under it's skin which added to the size. the next morning when he picked the bag up he had put it in he said he had about 2or 3 pints of fluid in the bottom of it.
I'm glad we haven't had anything as bad as that.
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That sounds dreadful Feldar :( . My first GFD ewe lambed today and had a normal ram lamb, he's full of colostrum and jumping beans tonight! I'm really hoping my lot have escaped SBV - the main of the flock start on the 18th :fc:
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Hi All,
I have just put a post up on my blog about my schmallenberg experiences last week. Those of you who have not yet lambed may find it helpful.
www.thechickenwhisperer.co.uk (http://www.thechickenwhisperer.co.uk)
There is also a link on the Accidental smallholder facebook site.
Good luck everyone and fingers crossed for those of us who lamb late.
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Hi Buffy
Just read your blog and it's really informative and exactly what we have been experiencing, though on the positive side our later January lambs have all been ok.
I am really hopeful for the March lambers that they will all be immune or bitten before the ram went in. One thing is sure though i will be vaccinating, if they ever get the bloody vaccine out!
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On the Welsh news last night they were talking to a farmer who has had 30% of his new lambs affected. Lots born dead and only one of the affected has survived. They filmed it and one of its front legs was badly deformed.
He said one of his neighbours has lost 95% of his flock to the disease.
Sally
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Gosh, just watched that on ITV catchup ... that guy is about 5 or so miles from me. Mine start 1st March so I'm just hoping that I left it late enough. We were certainly Midge Central around here for most of the summer/autumn.
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Hi Foobar, do you have a link for it on ITV catchup, I haven't managed to find it and would be interested to watch it (and probably worry myself as soon to start lambing on the borders). Thank you
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:wave:
I think this is it http://www.itv.com/news/wales/update/2013-01-08/lambing-season-hit-by-virus/ (http://www.itv.com/news/wales/update/2013-01-08/lambing-season-hit-by-virus/)
If not, go to http://www.itv.com/news/wales/ (http://www.itv.com/news/wales/) and scroll down until you get to it. It's a long way down.
Quite scary as a first timer!
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Thanks for pasting the link Raine! Yes it is all a bit worrying, hoping most peoples lambings won't be affected. Not sure if it was mainly the earlier lambing flocks last year. Well we have just started lambing this morning a nice set of healthy twins, so a good start which is a bit of a relief, not due any more for a couple of weeks or so and should then start to get busy.
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First information about SBV suggested first month of pregnancy was the key period. Just read in our vet's monthly newsletter that they reckon it's the first 7 weeks.
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to be honest that would make more sense :( there appear to be far too many lambs affected for such a small window of oppertunity.
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Had a visit from a neighbouring farmer this evening. He's got SBV in his pedigree suffolks lambing now and also said another neighbour lost a cow because they couldn't deliver a calf with it.
So it's got to the middle of Wales. :(
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Any schmallenberg reports from anyone this month? Have the number of incidents dropped?
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I think they have dropped as predicted. We are about to start lambing our commercial flock so fingers crossed all is alright. We have a couple of ewes off colour at the moment but that could be any number of things mostly from just being a sheep! they do love to keep you on your toes.
Looking forward to my interupted sleeping pattern and early morning lambings though to be fair these girls just tend to get on with it and all i have to do is checked lambies have sucked.
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Had no sign of it in my lot, finished a week ago. :excited:
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I'm a gluten for the scaremongeing - but its looking good here too :)
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I was really worrying about SBV as we had some ewes reabsorbing and a handful barren at scanning, not sure if these had it and dealt with it by losing the lambs, according to the scanner it was circulating in our area at the time. However so far have had 32 ewes lamb and have 70 lambs born on the ground, no lamb losses or still borns etc and no deformaties. We have one lamb that is a bit slow so maybe did suffer some brain damage, whether due to SBV who knows, he is having to be bottle fed as he didn't work out his mum could supply him with milk(!), but growing well. Hopefully all bodes well for the remaining ewes now.
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my landlord has 300 head and has lots 18% so he says.
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All of us shepherds\shepherdess are very nervous when this tread appears again, and with such a awful disease about we are all a bit more anxious than normal at this time :-\ .
-our local livestock market has had heavy in lamb ewes selling for just the cull value of the ewe!!
- SBV is still affecting local flocks ,but maybe with less impact than last year, with farming friends saying that they have had fewer deformed lambs this year - when some flocks were devastated by the virus last year.
I have great empathy with those dealing with the problem - a friend has just had a cow shot, as the calf could not be delivered in its twisted position :'(
My News on this farm is good , we have almost finished lambing now :relief: , in the region of 150 ewes producing a bumper crop of strong healthy lambs :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: :sheep: ........................................... :D ,and only one slightly deformed lamb, which was born with its tail stuck to its body And a lot of skin missing off its back ,but although it looks unpleasant has survived and grown well :) .
I can only surmise our flock has been subjected too a lot of midges ,being on low lying marshes,and gained immunity over the last couple of summers.
So I am wishing all of you, yet to lamb, good luck :fc: ,- and healthy bouncing lambs ;D
Tilly :wave: