The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: escapedtothecountry on November 17, 2012, 01:49:43 pm
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Today I am sat in my lounge - my mother has come up for a visit, and what do I see? A strange bloke clambering over my gate. I get up and watch with incredulity and knock really loudly on the French windows. He ignores me so I dash out the front and round the side to see what he thinks he is doing.
Picking mushrooms on my land. Now lets be serious. I couldn't care less about the mushrooms. I also know you are allowed to pick wild mushrooms. What I know you aren't allowed to do is just give yourself access to
So when I confront him he first says... I didn't know it was your field. (now remember my plot is just a rectangle with a third taken up by house and garden, and then to the right as you look at it .... what was a paddock which had horses in it). I replied - well it should be a bit obvious - but its clear its certainly not yours!!
He responds by saying "Well I'm allowed to pick mushrooms". Well sorry that was red rag to a bull - so I said maybe - but you aren't allowed to trespass. Yes I am he replied.
Anyway the short story is I recognise trespass is a civil matter( as opposed to criminal) . I recognise mushrooms aren't important, but I don't want people to think they can just hop over the fence and wander round my paddock and indeed garden helping themselves to whatever they want. There have been plenty of cases of heating oil being stolen for example. Or what next? First mushrooms, then nuts off the 100 hazel trees I plant? Etc etc...
Interestingly the village PCSO is visiting at 2:00pm. What actually can you do to stop this happening?
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i tend to use the technique of a quick but accurate blow with a piece of 2x2 to the bridge of the nose. hth. :tree:
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The other bit that made me really mad was his retort that "It's people like you". Eh? People like me who buy somewhere and grow things, look after it, and don't want anyone uninvited to just help themselves.
The thing is if someone had said - I spied some mushrooms would you mind if I took some Id have said yes, if you show me which are edible and which aren't... but no. He just helped himself!
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yes, manners cost nothing. i pick mushrooms, but no way would i do what that guy did, he is not setting a good example for other mycologists.
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Surely picking wild mushrooms requires the land owner's permission?
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yup.
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Foraging on private land requires land owners permission for sure ;)
Land with a public footpath doesn't need permission IF picking from the path, step off the path and you need permission.
Public access land you can forage so long as the plant is neither protected nor uprooted.
I go all over the place and forage many places with no public access, BUT I have the permission of every land owner to do so.
People shouldn't be climbing fences or gates, that should have been a huge clue ::)
Unfortunately many people think the right to roam act means you can go anywhere you like regardless.
Pop into his garden and pick all his flowers/veggies. See how he likes it >:(
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Would you like to borrow my 3german shepherds, open the door let them deal with him, he wouldn't return . Thankfully their bark is worse than their bite but he wouldn't know that!!!
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its the hole assumption that he was in the right that is madenning. As mentioned if he hd knocked on the d ad asked may have just said help yourself, but to just take and to allege was in te wrong for challenging him is perplexing.
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Next time, get name and address and car reg. Then either, depending on the response, report to police or visit and picnic in his garden (I've always wanted to do this, but never had the nerve!)
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I would be fumeing as well.........if I were you post some warning signs up to say "DANGER, MINE DISUSED MINE FIELD " or BEWARE OF THE BULL" or somthing in that vien......to be fair, lot's of people are either unsure or stupid......do a Tresspass sign would be great too......Like you say, a different story if they had have asked and what next, taking the eggs from peoples hens, veg from thier gardens or washing from thier lines!!!!! I love the idea of a pic nic in thier garden or even better, pick some of thier flowers etc!!!
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Go out with camera .... take photo evidence. Can hardly complain about you taking photo of your own property!
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nah 2x2, everytime. worked for me! never had a trespasser on my land since i did the first one in!
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Yes , i get dog walkers park at the top of my track and then walk down the track allowing tiddles to do his business on my property .
I politely inform them they are on private property after asking if they are looking for me .
And i always get told it is a right of way and they are allowed to walk there . It isn't , and they aren't , they then leave very fast !
I have had lots of stuff nicked in the past .
I had a froe , a drawknife , a metal rake , a wooden rake , a wooden wheelbarrow nicked , all hand made by me . The froe and drawknife i made out of old 1930's lorry leaf spring . They were the first tools i made in my forge , fired by my first batch of home grown , home made charcoal . So sentimental value more than money .
Also had some replica 16th century furniture i made go walk about , a chest , a couple of chairs , and a settle . Not small stuff and that was worth money . All hand hewn oak and metalwork made from rought iron rigging straps off of a boat made in 1800ish .
So when i see people down there now , i ask politely what they want ? , then ask them to leave . If they argue i tell them to go and if they still argue , i help them on their way .
Why do they just assume they have a right to go where the f eck they want ?
I know not all of them are theives , but i can't tell which are or not , so i tell'em all to f eckoff if they argue .
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A friend of mine had the same problem, he found out where the person lived and then let himself into his garden and started picking flowers! The fella went mad but I think he got the point in the end ;). The problem is people don't see a private field in the same way as a private garden and they should. I would have been hopping mad aswell.
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I get the whole - oh it was a mistake argument that could be given - say if you strayed off a right of way. My property is a two acre rectangle surronded (dont like them but they were there) by conifers to the right and rear. Poplars to the left and a gate to our drive(on left) , hedging and a gate to paddock on right at the front. At the front the road goes straight by. So what he has done is driven along. Stopped. Looked through hedge and gate to paddock. Seen something he wanted... and just hopped on over... walking in direct view of my french windows (8 door panes of them!) and got caught!
PCSO was meant to come at 2:00pm - came at 4:00pm when we were out. I did actually report it - as for all I know it could be a ruse to see what you have on your property worth pinching.
I know the law - and they will say picking wild mushrooms is OK - yet I get that. Trespass is not - but its not a criminal matter it is a civil one = police don't get involved.
So my question is really, (I doubt he will given I told him what for) where do you stand if he did it again. He isn't committing a CRIMINAL act. It is one of those things that in the scheme of things isn't important - but now its the principal. I don't want others locally to have random people wandering around their property. What if I was away with work - I'm sure it would have been a tad frightening for a woman on their own to seen someone they didn't know entering uninvited.
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So my question is really, (I doubt he will given I told him what for) where do you stand if he did it again. He isn't committing a CRIMINAL act.
see
http://www.foragingguide.com/mushrooms/articles/collecting/legal_aspects_of_picking_wild_mushrooms (http://www.foragingguide.com/mushrooms/articles/collecting/legal_aspects_of_picking_wild_mushrooms)
The more pragmatic solution is to tell him the mushrooms are cultivated (in that you sow the spores - he can't prove otherwise) and perhaps put up a small sign to that effect.
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A friend of mine had the same problem, he found out where the person lived and then let himself into his garden and started picking flowers! The fella went mad but I think he got the point in the end ;) . The problem is people don't see a private field in the same way as a private garden and they should. I would have been hopping mad aswell.
I think its a combination of things - and its partially the fact that the 'field' which is more of a paddock isn't a separate entity but is lets say 30 feet from the most open part of the house... and you shouldn't have to tolerate anyone jumping over and invading your privacy uninvited.
At the end of the day I wouldn't dream of even going in my mother in laws back garden uninvited yet this stranger thought I was in the wrong for pulling him up!
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So my question is really, (I doubt he will given I told him what for) where do you stand if he did it again. He isn't committing a CRIMINAL act.
see
http://www.foragingguide.com/mushrooms/articles/collecting/legal_aspects_of_picking_wild_mushrooms (http://www.foragingguide.com/mushrooms/articles/collecting/legal_aspects_of_picking_wild_mushrooms)
So he is committing trespass as I knew - and actually he is allowed to essentially keep doing it and only then would I be able to do something about persistent trespass.
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I take all my dogs, making a great show of making them walk to heel (ie they could easily be let loose) and tuck my air rifle under my arm (as i'm just off, on my land, to shoot jackdaws) or the gripe (mucking out fork) and I go and ask them what they think they're doing?
Sometimes they announce that they're going up to the bridge to photograph steam trains.
That's when my best school-marm, scaring-big-lads-into-better-behaviour voice comes in handy! 'is that right' I ask, my eyebrows shooting up into my fringe, 'where's the footpath?'
Usually by this time they're beginning to suspect they're on shaky ground and they start nervously asking permission, which to be honest, I usually give, having told them I don't expect to find people wandering on my land without having asked, and given them earache about dogs, gates and walls.
The bolshy ones I plant myself in front of and tell them they are not going any further and to remove themselves.
It's all bluff, I can't shoot them, my dogs are softies and I'm on my own - but they don't know that and I wouldn't argue with me ;)
Re the mushroom-picker, it's a rare person who would repeatedly come back knowing now he's going to get grief, and even if he is one of those blokes who can't be in the wrong ::) at the time, he'd have to be far fonder of conflict than most people are, to come back.
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So he is committing trespass as I knew - and actually he is allowed to essentially keep doing it and only then would I be able to do something about persistent trespass.
From my knowledge (I'm not a lawyer) the only remedy for trespass is to sue for damages. If there is no damage then there is no point. That is why travellers can often pitch up on people's land for months' the owner has to get an injunction to remove them.
Hence why I said it would be more pragmatic to say you cultivate field mushrooms (and have a little sign to that effect).
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crikey. talk about being walked over, its not suprising. he is on your property, hit him with a bit of wood. whats he gonna do? report you to the p[olice? i doubt it! if he does its your word against his. no plods gonna do anything.
i believe you have the right to protect yourself still, just about... how are you to know that he isnt there to rape and pillage?
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A bigger fence, and gate will do too. ;D
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there is that yes, but its no where near as satisfying.
it is somewhat a bugbear of mine, that people feel so unempowered to take action to protect themselves and their property. often ive read on here about similar situations, where people are being 'taken the p..s' out of, and resort to putting up a sign or someother useless idea, whereas a reputation for hitting trespassers with sticks would be much more effective. rant over.
my last landlord 'accidentally' shot a trespasser once right in the arse. peppered him with shot, guess what, no one ever went back on his land!!
get orf my land!! bang bang! :D
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I know a lot of landowners that translate 'foraging ' as thieving. One gamekeeper I know is also 'asked' to watch out for blackberry thieves, sloe thieves and at this time of year Holly thieves.
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.........maybe hidden bear traps!!!! :innocent: maybe a little extream but why can people walk on your land and it not be illegal, people could picnic in other peoples gardens etc.......the law is strange, also, am I not right in thinking they could sue you if they injured themself on your land?
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Lol , yes it's a bit like cricket Dave , that satisfying sound of wood on skull , donk ! , welcome to my world a*shole , now f eckoff my land .
I think half the problem stems from the no consequences pc world we live in now . Some people think they can do whatever they want . Well elswhere they may , but not on my land , i will drop them .
Unless firearms are involved , plod don't want to know .
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Yes they can Sandy . The world has gone bonkers .
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welcome to my world a*shole , now f eckoff my land .
thats precisley the point i was trying to convey, i salute your eloquence, sir
:roflanim:
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I agree, I think if it happens again run out naked, shouting with a big axe in your hand (was going to say chopper but that would be rude)
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Right to roam, innit?
Fun solutions include: a bull, dogs.
I have always found that a quick wander with a broken 12ga over my arm sees people scarpering pretty quickly.
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What annoys me is some waster of a scumbag who will never amount to anything other than a taxpayers burden is allowed to wander and steal from any hardworking land owner he feels like. That's Britain for you. Probably the same in France but I haven't found that out yet!
If people wan't fresh mushrooms go to the supermarket and buy them. Yes a 2 x 2 seems appropriate but unfortunately will solve nothing.
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So my question is really, (I doubt he will given I told him what for) where do you stand if he did it again. He isn't committing a CRIMINAL act.
Neither are you if you go and spray all the mushrooms with disinfectant in front of him.
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Right to roam, innit?
No - as there is no right to roam just anywhere anyone wants. It will be interesting to see who decides to come into my garden and help themselves when hopefully all of those 2000+ daffodils I've planted flower.
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Won't your new bull make an awful mess of them? ;D
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Ha ha - yes terrible ;D
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Bulls, & Lots of dogs (pref ones who bark at tresspassers) & walking round with an axe or gun to do work all tend to help ;D the trouble with us is we have public footpaths through the farmyard & the dogs are softies :-\
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we have 3 dogs that bark like mad (inc a gsd) at the postie but when we had an intruder in our woods, our dogs were completey useless and left me to it. i did call the police as i was alone with the kids and the cops came up within 10 mins to see if he was gone, which he was.
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we have 3 dogs that bark like mad (inc a gsd) at the postie but when we had an intruder in our woods, our dogs were completey useless and left me to it. i did call the police as i was alone with the kids and the cops came up within 10 mins to see if he was gone, which he was.
This is also my point.. Imagine if my wife was on her own and sees some strange man scaling the gate and entering what is a totally fenced off 2 acre plot. Enough to concern anyone.
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If all people want are a few blackberries, mushrooms, sloes they are welcome to come onto my land to pick them, I wouldn't think twice about gathering mushrooms from neighbouring fields.
I would object very strongly though if they were exercising dogs or shooting rabbits without my permission.
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If all people want are a few blackberries, mushrooms, sloes they are welcome to come onto my land to pick them, I wouldn't think twice about gathering mushrooms from neighbouring fields.
That's fine, as if you feel like that people could take it you have granted permission. I however have not granted permission for strangers to come and go as they please over my paddock which has things I am growing in it for my use including willow rods etc etc.
Perhaps your neighbouring fields aren't right next to a neighbours house allowing you to look totally into their house either? That is my point. The chap was un-invited, totally invaded my privacy and thought he did nothing wrong. As others have suggested.... if I clambered over his back gate and walked around his garden he probably wouldn't like it.
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Stick a sign on the gate - I have a couple of ones from farm signs http://www.farm-signs.co.uk/ (http://www.farm-signs.co.uk/) - the black ones, although a bit more expensive, are the best I've found. It seems to me that they look "posher" which makes people take more notice - not sure why!
Just Private land, no Entry will do the trick as you would have to be pretty arrogant to clamber over that!
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Do you know him? If so when you see him again, say you'll report him to the police as being a peeping tom..his word against yours. If you dont know him, take his photo, then say you will be taing it to the police to report him as a peeping tom.
I think he has got some b*lls coming onto someone elses land to steal from them. Surely it is theft if he takes something which doesnt belong to him. After all, mushrooms do have a monetary value do they not?
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I had someone steal my muck heap once. They even knocked the street light out by the gate to the field! They forgot a lovely silver mens watch and a great fork that the owner of the field got :D If they would have only have asked they could have had it for free!!! I can just imagine them looking for the watch and the fork in the pitch black with my horses looking on, confused.
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Although trespass is a civil matter theft is a criminal matter. Under English law all things growing on land belong to the owner of that land and he is therefore stealing your property. If the police are not interested stick up a notice informing people that all such thefts will pursued through a private prosecution.
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As a point of law it's interesting as wild mushrooms aren't actually owned by the landowner. My plot isn't a massive field. It's a 2 acre rectangle which includes all outbuildings stables and our house. Anyone who enters uninvited really does invade the privacy of my house. Naughty chap!
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nah 2x2, everytime. worked for me! never had a trespasser on my land since i did the first one in!
:roflanim:
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A couple of years ago, a mate had his garage door damaged and stuff taken. He called the Police and ended up in deeper trouble because he said that if he had caught the thieve/s then he would have used the 2X2 now propped up in the garage corner. He was 'Cautioned' after follow up visits from the Police.
Many years age I was involved in a frackar after another ex-mate thumped his girl friend ( it was not the first time). I was on his girl friends Fathers side and when the ex-mate turned up I informed the girls Father. The ex-mate was hiding in a house . The Father wanted to give the ex-mate a fair chance of a proper fight and at this stage I must add that the quakeing lad was afraid to come out to face his girl friends Father. The Father, in his moment of anger shouted , " I am going home to get my shot gun. When I return, if you do not come out of this house, then I will blow every window out until I hit you !"
The sad thing is that the Father ended up in Crown Court, I was a witness. He had to sell his car and other items to pay the barrister. I am talking 20 years ago.
I have read a number of threats on these pages and I have to cringe, whilst I agree with you and the right to defend, I have seen our laws in action. It is just too difficult to prosecute criminals. Much easier to prosecute the real victims of crime, and the Law in this land always does. May be that is why the turn out in the recent Vote for a Police Commissioner was so low ?
:huff:
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To be honest maybe that would have been a good reason for a larger PCC vote - to get people to back the law abiding majority.
To be fair in the instance I have written about, Lincolnshire police have been excellent. I went to them for advice etc and this evening they sent a PCSO and a PC to talk to me. They asked how high was the gate the chap climbed over and how many mushrooms did he take - both of which I pointed out wasn't too relevant as it was the fact someone had entered my wider property (land as opposed to house) uninvited.
They confirmed it was an issues of trespass which while a civil matter, they were happy to look into. They asked did I want to pursue it - and of course the answer was no - but what I did want to know would they be interested in doing anything should there be a re-occurence. And in this instance the police were refreshingly helpful.
They suggested if something like this ever happened again I as the landowner should just note the persons appearance and if they had a car try to get the licence number. I should immediately call, don't go into what I THINK they are doing, just say a person has entered my property (land) uninvited, they are still there and I don't know what their intention is.
The result would be the case would be treated as urgent and they would be more than happy to send someone out straight away. Now I wouldn't think I would waste police time on a matter so trivial but its good to know the support, in this case, is there.
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ok, ive got to say this, you got a pcso and a pc to visit you for a bloke nicking mushrooms????? serious???
i think you should count yourself lucky, i know people who've had their houses and garages robbed with 1000,s worth of stuff nicked and have never had a policeman return a phonecall let alone visit, examples of which are on here...
tbh. iim gobsmacked.
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I got a visit post the event having reported a trespasser on my property at the time the incident took place.
In another country I too never got a visit nor response to my car being broken into feet away from my front door and several items being taken. So one doesn't subscribe to a zero tolerance/ broken windows approach to crime... and one force does. I know which i prefer.
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im talking about in this country?
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I meant county not country.
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I have read a number of threats on these pages and I have to cringe, whilst I agree with you and the right to defend, I have seen our laws in action
that's why the threat has to be implied not explicit - hence my air rifle or gripe, as I'm going out to do a job......
Hats off the the Lincolnshire Police, good to hear they were positive and helpful :thumbsup:
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Get some geese. People are irrationally scared of them and they make a lot of noise when they see something out of the ordinary. They also cost next to nothing to feed and look after if you've got grass for them to graze.
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We too have had a couple of really excellent responses from Lincolnshire Police the last being only Halloween :)
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Geese are a good idea - amazing something so nice to look at can seem so scary to some people.
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They'd scare me off, that's for sure. One chased me when I was four and I've never forgotten the fear. :gloomy: :'(
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They'd scare me off, that's for sure. One chased me when I was four and I've never forgotten the fear. :gloomy: :'(
As a teenager we used to have to sneak past a farm, if the dogs heard or saw us they would come chasing up out of the yard on to the track, barking ferocously, one was a big gingerish alsation, I would usually be away in time, one day I knew it was too close, just stopped, turned to face it, I thought I was dead. the dog stopped, backed away then came slowly forward. I patted it. Lesson learned. same with geese, unlike dogs they can't really do much but boy do they sound as if they can! best outdoor burglar alarms.
Come to think of it, I've never seen a mushroom where the geese roam, so it may solve the problem on 2 counts. unless they are the magic mushrooms, who knows what effect they wuld have on geese ::) .
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have you not seen sheep, theyre nutted from september onwards....
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Thanks for all your comments - all very helpful and some very amusing too. I still can't get over the cheek of the chap.... it takes all sorts.
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Wow! Geese on magic mushrooms I would like to see ;D ;D ;D
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I could understand someone doing it if he thought it was open land, but to climb over a fence suggests he knew he shouldn't have been there. I would have been angry to, ETTC
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same with geese, unlike dogs they can't really do much but boy do they sound as if they can! best outdoor burglar alarms.
Only in daylight, though? :-J
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Even when they are fastened in, we hear them squawking during the night, they have good hearing as well.
One morning something had tried to get to the hens (they were OK), OH said he'd heard the geese clamouring and hadn't thought to mention it.
Could always make a weldmesh run+shelter to protect them from nasties at night?
That is actually giving ME ideas about resiting their housing, and making a safe outdoor run for them near the house. hmmmm :thinking: . there has been 'overnight problems' locally this last year or so.
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They'd scare me off, that's for sure. One chased me when I was four and I've never forgotten the fear. :gloomy: :'(
As a teenager we used to have to sneak past a farm, if the dogs heard or saw us they would come chasing up out of the yard on to the track, barking ferocously, one was a big gingerish alsation, I would usually be away in time, one day I knew it was too close, just stopped, turned to face it, I thought I was dead. the dog stopped, backed away then came slowly forward. I patted it. Lesson learned. same with geese, unlike dogs they can't really do much but boy do they sound as if they can! best outdoor burglar alarms.
Come to think of it, I've never seen a mushroom where the geese roam, so it may solve the problem on 2 counts. unless they are the magic mushrooms, who knows what effect they wuld have on geese ::) .
When I was a kid, before i went off to school in the morning one of my duties was to feed our geese. One bucket of mash/grain/or whatever, one bucket of water and an empty one to put over "Duncan" our ( ferocious ) ganders head. He would just stand still in a rather confused state. Everytime. :eyelashes:
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The only ones that scare me are geese with goslings!
And. we once took a gander away to another site, while I introduced another goose to make a trio, I went to get fresh food and water for him, reached in with the dishes and had my hand well and truly 'worried', hadn't realised idiot boyfriend at the time had been teasing him. Had a bad & bruised hand for a long time. >:( (at idiot BF)
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Your ex boyfriend ought to be shut in with a load of geese. ;D
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Your ex boyfriend ought to be shut in with a load of geese. ;D
Long Gone (took him to where I used to live near New Deer, he bought a place up there, I didn't go with him) stayed in peace with my goats and geese ;D
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Good for you.