The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: firemansam on November 14, 2012, 10:38:53 pm
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I have had my 1st 3 pygmy goats running with our billy Percy.
they should be due around xmas.
What are your thoughts on horns? De horn or not.
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All my Old English goats are horned, which is how the breed is kept. I much prefer this.
I'm replying just to give the alternative view because you'll get some views in due course which are so anti-horn you'd wonder how my goats and I are still in one piece :goat:
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I have 14 pygmy goats all of which are horned and I had a similar dilemma. I work with children of varying ages,(so lots of health and safety implications), youngest is 3 and was anxious about the children being injured with the horns, but to date, no injury has occured and I can't imagine them without horns now. I know of someone that has a couple of disbudded pygmys and in my opinion i thought they looked a bit odd. Also,if disbudded, how would they scratch their back? And would they be vulnerable if introduced to horned goats?
Good luck with the births
mojo
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The reason dairy goats are disbudded is because it makes the everyday, twice milking handling a lot safer and easier for the handler. Also the size of their horns is quite different from pygmies' horns.
I wouldn't disbud pygmies - they are usually kept horned. If the parents are horned disbudding the kid(s) will put them at a disadvantage when arranging their herd hierarchies. While the hroons are still growing and they can fit their heads through mesh fences or similar you may have to think about a yoke/stick across their horns to stop them.
Re scratching - my goats just use the bottom of the hayrack or side of the pen to sratch their backs.
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I have both horned and not horned. (not pygmy but still goats) and the horned girl has not given us any real issues to date (apart from pulling the fencing with her horns, little toad!) and once I had a horn up the rib cage (accidental not with malice).
I had our kid born last year disbudded and we now have scurs growing all the time which worry me as they seem to want to grow back into his head :-\
I guess the rule would be not to mix horned and non horned so if you are going with horned keep them all that way and vice versa? Its a personal choice and has to be based on what you believe to be right and dependent on health and safety of little people etc :)
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Here are two of this year's kids modelling 'the headgear'. They only need to wear it a week or two and then the fascination for sticking your head through stock fencing seems to wear off :D
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k70/jaykayg/goats/cee12006.jpg)
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I am one of the anti horn brigade and. For my personal way of life would never have a horned goat
Just for the risk factor
7 of our goats are dairy and tbh there is a higher risk milking with horns. Snowdrop who hopefully now in kid used to threaten you when we first started milking her untill she got used to it. Thankfully she has no horns
Our dogs all go for a walk with us and the goats and quite often a dog will be butted if it gets in the way and we also have an american miniature horse that mixes with the goats
Having said that if your other pygmys are horned it would best to leave the horns on the kids
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Another for the keep them natural clan here. I have 13 pygmy's all horned and no issues, although I am aware of the horns if I have a kid on my lap for a cuddle. The adults are too heavy to sit on my knee so their horns are at knee height.
But I do take on board the fact if they were dairy goats the situation could be different.
So as it's pygmy's we're talking about - keep them.
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Mine are dairy goats. But I don't have children around them, so I can just operate with horns in mind without the worry that someone else might not. As you can see, Ellie here has good horns - and she does occasionally threaten to tell me what she thinks about something with them. But hey :)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k70/jaykayg/5b9c8da3.jpg)
(normally I milk inside, this was for the sake of the photo)
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Jaykay - I love the fact you keep your goats as nature intended - it's nice when that is the norm for the breed.
Love the picture :thumbsup:
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Thanks
it's nice when that is the norm for the breed
Yes, I like that about them. The breed people are sane and the goats a very down-to-earth, get-on-with-life sort of breed, not too much fuss about mud, cold water to drink etc, though like most goats, if they can get you running around after them they will ;)
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I have to say horn's all the way. The are naturally horned and should keep them. There are lots of stories in the PGC where de budding has not gone to plan. From the mothers rejecting the kids etc.
They are born with horns they need to keep them!!! :goat:
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When I had disbudding I had no problems...untill I started using vets.I think you'll find lots of pygmy goat owners use vets and thats where the problems come from. ;) Goats should be done when they are ready not when some jobs worth official says and pygmies have a differant horn growth so adjustments are needed then too.
As for dragging from mum,carting to a surgery,handling by strangers with strange smells and then pushed back in with inexperianced mums again...no wonder there are problems!
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thanks for all the replies.
Horns will be staying on then!
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When I had disbudding I had no problems...untill I started using vets.I think you'll find lots of pygmy goat owners use vets and thats where the problems come from. ;) Goats should be done when they are ready not when some jobs worth official says and pygmies have a differant horn growth so adjustments are needed then too.
As for dragging from mum,carting to a surgery,handling by strangers with strange smells and then pushed back in with inexperianced mums again...no wonder there are problems!
Just to re- iterate, it is against the law for anyone other than a vet to disbud (de horn). It is also illegal to do it without anaesthetic.
I do know plenty of people who get pygmies disbudded, and there is no difficulty with the mums not taking them back.
More difficult is the age thing- I do know people who tell white lies about how old the kids are so they aren't disbudded as early as the vets would like...
Beth
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My two are disbudded and as they are pregnant with the kids going to families with young children I am going to disbudded the kids. What age should they be when this is done? I will be getting the vet to do it.
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My two are disbudded and as they are pregnant with the kids going to families with young children I am going to disbudded the kids. What age should they be when this is done? I will be getting the vet to do it.
Goats have to be disbudded by a veterinary practitioner by law and under full anasthetic. My vet will have the dairy goat kids in at 4 days old, not sure if it is later for the smaller pygmies. Best to discuss with the vet in detail beforehand - if they have never done it, maybe try a different vet. It is quite a skilled job. I use Greenside Vets in St Boswells and they are great. But you probably hav your farm vet closer.
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I am of the impression that it is about 4 days old as well for pygmys