The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: jaykay on November 12, 2012, 12:49:59 pm
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There's all this talk on the Shetland forum about how aggressive Shetland tups are, how you should be arranging things so you don't have to go into the field with them to feed them etc. Or even if you should be feeding them :o
My two shear would run at me if the alternative was to be caught in a corner. But that just seemed 'sensible' to me, why would any animal not try to escape. And of course they're knee high to a grasshopper, though they can still pack a punch at knee height.
I know I've got a potential issue with my tup lamb, as he was a real pet where he was bred, it turned out after I bought him ::) He is a little cuteness still, though I am trying to resist scritching him too much - helps when putting raddle on :)
But in general, are they especially aggressive? More so than other breeds?
Just wondering if I've swapped myself 100kg bolshy Rough Fell tup for 50kg of nasty Shetland tup?
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my old Shetland tup was as mild as they come - wouldnt say boo to a goose. Bless him. RIP Curlywurly.
may be using a Shetland tup on loan for the first timers (Cheviot on the older/experienced ones) this year - seeing him on Weds so will report back on that one!
I dont think they are any more aggressive than any other breed. They can move faster than some breeds tho being smaller and lighter, maybe that makes a difference!
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Don't know about Shetlands, Jaykay, and only have experience of the Soay tup that we loaned last year but he was a feisty lad. ;D Fine until he got really interested in the girls but then didn't take kindly to anyone venturing into HIS field. Did have to stop the children going in there and never turned my back. He would butt and never took his eyes off you .
Maybe these smaller breeds have big attitudes ..... like small dogs. :D
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Oh, what a load of bo&&ocks...
I am onto my third Shetland tup, all have come from small herds where they were (probably) petted as lambs, one of them was bottle reared. All of them kept order in their male groups, and the only one time I got butted (yes at knee height and it was painful), was when a small tup lamb got into the space between me and the tup while I was dishing out breakfast in the middle of winter...Freddie was aiming at the lamb but lamb was quicker than me ;D
No I don't pet them, especially when I have a bucket with me, and when I think they may be very hungry I will take a crook with me. I don't turn my back to any of my tups (I have texel type ones too). But at no times have I been worried about going into their fields. However as winter goes on I find it easier to have the troughs either inside a hurdle pen or next to the gate, it just means I can fill it without the hassle of everyone trying to jump into the bucket....and getting run down by a mob of ewes...
And don't even be tempted to believe that as a women they are more agressive with you than they wold be with a male shepherd...
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Don't know about Shetlands, Jaykay, and only have experience of the Soay tup that we loaned last year but he was a feisty lad. ;D
He came from a dodgy owner though..... :roflanim: :roflanim:
Only one experience of a shetland tup and he was a calm lad..
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jaykay, I can't speak about Shetlands generally but I think your lad is from a nice natured line :)
I was visiting Alma as she was putting one of her tups out with his girls; all of us were completely at ease along the lane and in the field with him and his ladies.
I think I am right in saying that that ^ tup was the grandaddy of your one :)
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Only ever had experiance with 1 shetland tup and he belonged to a friend, He was bottle reared and as tame and friendly as a dog
He was called Douglas and you just called him and he followed so moving him was easy even if he was in with the ewes
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Good to hear, thank you all :thumbsup:
It did all seem a bit hysterical, but what do I know, this is only just into my second year with Shetlands and my second tup, who's still a (cute ;)) little fella. Glad to hear he may just grow up from a little softie to a big softie ;D
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Oh, what a load of bo&&ocks...
I am onto my third Shetland tup, all have come from small herds where they were (probably) petted as lambs, one of them was bottle reared. All of them kept order in their male groups, and the only one time I got butted (yes at knee height and it was painful), was when a small tup lamb got into the space between me and the tup while I was dishing out breakfast in the middle of winter...Freddie was aiming at the lamb but lamb was quicker than me ;D
No I don't pet them, especially when I have a bucket with me, and when I think they may be very hungry I will take a crook with me. I don't turn my back to any of my tups (I have texel type ones too). But at no times have I been worried about going into their fields. However as winter goes on I find it easier to have the troughs either inside a hurdle pen or next to the gate, it just means I can fill it without the hassle of everyone trying to jump into the bucket....and getting run down by a mob of ewes...
And don't even be tempted to believe that as a women they are more agressive with you than they wold be with a male shepherd...
Nod, nod... In winter, you don't need a tup to run you down. I remember feeding the ewes from the quadbike - open bag of feed at the back and let it run out - needed some practice to get it down in an even line... But if I'd gone off the bike, they would have had me! And none of them was an aggressive tup.
Strangely enough, I rather find (from previous experience) that males are often more agressive with male handlers; do they "smell" similar hormones to their own and suspect a rival? I'm not making that up. While I was doing my apprenticeship, it was me who caught the bull when he was needed to serve a cow (times were different then, he didn't run with the herd, he and the cows were tethered individually in the shed...) My boss wouldn't actually let me hold him while serving, 'cause he was afraid something might happen and would rather have had it happen to himself (insurance etc), but the bull was definitely calmer with me. And another female apprentice nearby, on a cattle breeder place, was doing most of the handling and showing there, too, for exactly the same reason. I remember in an AI station for pigs back then it was women handling the massive boars... (And they were massive! :o ) And once, when I was on a walk with my father and and a female friend, he got attacked by a peacock - and that peacock singled out my father and left us two women alone...
Strange, isn't it?
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Yeh, trying to actually get the feed into the troughs while the silly things are trying to climb into the bucket and the trough is an exercise in speed and double-feinting :D
Since I'm used to doing it with Rough ewes though, who weighed what I do, are as greedy as anything I've ever met, and who had horns to take pieces out of your legs, this seems relatively mild in comparison.
I had just got used to not having to worry about being in a field with a tup, when all this stuff started. I know they should be advising new sheep keepers to treat tups with respect but the stuff being said is silly.
This was the effect of my Rough Fell tup, so I know to be careful - but these little guys?
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k70/jaykayg/th_blackeye001.jpg) (http://s85.photobucket.com/albums/k70/jaykayg/?action=view¤t=blackeye001.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k70/jaykayg/th_blackeye1.jpg) (http://s85.photobucket.com/albums/k70/jaykayg/?action=view¤t=blackeye1.jpg)
PS the kids at school were very impressed with the black eye ;)
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There are probably rights and wrongs when it comes to handling them but I guess with my very limited experience and from talking to many shepherds up here that they are like any other animal and all different and individual. Some are calm and some are more aggressive. Guess that's common sense. Several farmers have told me that they have needed medical treatment/ physio after incidents with their rams. Some have said they have had rams that could not be trusted and others have said that they made mistakes such as trying to handle ewes with the tup still in the field. These will be commercials/terminal sires and not primitives.. I was told that you had to respect ANY ram.
Keen to learn as much as possible about the best way to keep my sheep .... ewes and tups. Did speak to Tim Tyne about bossy behaviour in tups. He thought it could be heightened by feeding the tup during winter in with the ewes. I kept them together so he got fed as they did. TimTyne seemed to say that the behaviour would be caused in the main by the ram being on the look out for his food. Going to try a different way of delivering the food this year rather than walking right across the field with him following in eager anticipation. ;D Haven't quite worked out the logistics yet ...... maybe a helicopter drop ;) ;D
Would it not follow that primitive tups had a tendency to be a bit "bossier" just as the ewes of these breeds tend to be a bit flightier. ??? ..... compared to larger breeds/commercials
Cor blimey, Jaykay. That must have hurt :bouquet: . Cross posted with several people.
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I've told the story before about being mown down by our new Swaledale tup. All my own fault, being too confident in amongst him and his ewes. The other Swaley tups knew me and my ways and weren't threatened by it, so I stupidly didn't stop to think that this new-to-us boy wouldn't yet know that I wasn't a threat.
And yes, getting safely to where the food is going to be dished up is a problem. I was twice floored from behind by a BFL tup, angry that I was leading them to where I wanted them with a bucket of cake, and clever enough to work out how to get that cake onto the ground. :o More clever than me, clearly, since he got me the same way twice. :dunce: Funny story :roflanim: - but the fact is my back will never be quite as good as it was :(
I guess we farmers tend to use the ubiquitous quad bike as the helicopter - we can deliver ourselves and the cake safely to the middle of the field, and get out of trouble, in a way we couldn't on foot.
Where I have fed tups in the field, I would usually use a bucket not a trough, so you can put the bucket down for him (or hold it for him if the ewes are with him - but take care how you keep the ewes at bay lest he think he needs to protect him : see opening para ::)) as soon as he arrives with you. Trying to keep safe while carrying the cake he wants to the trough you are nowhere near is a recipe for an accident - see second para :D
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Kumquat - as we've said, what a star his owner is (still can't find the bowing down icon ::) ). Going to collect this years tup very soon :excited: .
Interesting SITN. Thank you. It seems our slow trudge down a steep hill, carrying dinner, could well have caused some of our problems as much as protection of his girls. No quad ..... but I have thought of a plan. 8) Guess a lot of what you might describe as aggression is just natural behaviour (in some cases) made worse by the way we handle certain situations. Oh dear .... much to learn :( [size=78%] [/size]
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I bought a new tup this year, and he was fine, until one day he just clipped me behind the knee whilst I was walking across the field with the feed bucket. I don't know if he was aiming at me or at one of the ram lambs and clipped me my accident, but I didn't stop to ask him as I turned and shouted at him very loudly and chased him around the field a few times. He hasn't come close since, but I try to make a mental note to myself as I enter any field so as not to get complacent.
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That's what I do Foobar, the second I get the first cheeky 'dunt' from a tup.
Backed up by grabbing hold of his jaw if he's even looking like being cheeky, lifting his head so he's looking straight at me and shouting 'no' at him from pointblank range. It's trained one of my own very naughty tup lambs out of the habit!
I walk with the bucket to the trough, but just from the quad which I take the hay on too. They're all, tup included, so busy running to the trough they don't bother with me.
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Oh, what a load of bo&&ocks...
Whilst I agree that the ladies on the Shetland list often get their knickers in a twist, I wouldn't dismiss the tup problem totally as a load of b*****ks. A well-known Shetland breeder, young and fit, has been badly butted by a tup, who knocked her to the ground and continued to butt her down there, to her injury.
As others have said, be wary whenever you are in a field with tups. Never turn your back on even the friendliest tup, nor the smallest.
If you must feed tups from a bucket in the winter then tip the contents into a trough from the other side of the fence - why does it have to be in the middle of the field?
More people are killed by sheep in Britain than by any other animal, or so it is reported. So please be sensible :sheep: and don't pet tup lambs destined to be used for breeding
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Ohh, Jaykay that doesn't look good.... a timely reminder that i shouldn't become complacent.
i tend to feed mine within the hurdles so always have a quick escape and so they are used to the hurdles if i need to tend to any.
I've been floored too many times by enthusiastic terriers so something with horns wouldn't be good
ITH - I've requested that she becomes "Dame Julie" - I've booked one for next year already :thumbsup:
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More people are killed by sheep in Britain than by any other animal
Are you sure? Did you mean injured? :)
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It does happen.
You have to be wary and resprectful of any ram - entire males, sheep, cattle or pigs can be unpredictable at the best of times, and although some are real softies, you can never take it for granted.
Tim got smacked in the face by a ram a couple of years ago. Must have somehow re-arranged his sinuses because he now has hardly any sense of smell, not much sense of taste, and has chronic sinustis.
Don't be frightened of tups, but do be aware they can do damage - particularly if they have horns, and be aware that it might be prudent to keep small children out of the way.
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My two Shetland tups are no different to the other 4 rams we are running at the moment. Treat them with respect and cull any ram that appears to have temperament problems is my approach. Skein 3 (Shetland) and Jay 5 (BWM) are two of the most gentlemanly rams one could ever hope to meet. Bruno shearling (Jacob) is fine providing he isn't left on his own and appreciates nothing more than a scratch under the chin, Dion shearling (Shetland) can be on the cheeky side but I have never seen him being aggressive, Tywi shearling (Jacob) is something of a wild child but again no aggression and then there is Nevern shearling (BWM) who is so laid back he just might fall over one day and his son Pinsley who is very similar. When they aren't in with ewes I can walk up to any of them except Tywi and halter them and lead them out of the field. I do everything wrong because they do get scratches and the odd ginger biscuit or oat cake but they also have their routine and we do spend a fair amount of time with them ensuring they respect us just as we respect them.
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More people are killed by sheep in Britain than by any other animal
Are you sure? Did you mean injured? :)
Well I'm not totally sure because I can't find the quote, but no I do mean killed. I was surprised m yself when I read it. You would think that horses would cause more deaths, and cattle. The ones I can think of with sheep include the lady whose quad was pushed over a cliff by her over excited flock, and the elderly lady who was knocked to the ground by a couple of flying male Shetlands and died when her head hit a stone. I'll try to remember some others........
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Strangely enough, I've never been worried about my friend's Merinos - just lately went in to feed the rams a dozen or so), in the field, into a trough and with a bucket, and no problem... And they do have horns. I find it a lot more worrying to be in a smallish space with them, as when we do feet etc. The you can't jump out of the way when those horns approach you! But none of them has ever shown aggression towards humans, only towards each other, as it should be.
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Oh, what a load of bo&&ocks...
Whilst I agree that the ladies on the Shetland list often get their knickers in a twist, I wouldn't dismiss the tup problem totally as a load of b*****ks. A well-known Shetland breeder, young and fit, has been badly butted by a tup, who knocked her to the ground and continued to butt her down there, to her injury.
More people are killed by sheep in Britain than by any other animal, or so it is reported.
Well I would like to see the evidence that a Shetland tup is MORE aggressive than other breeds of tup. Likely to push for his food when it is not coming quick enough yes, but so is my texel boy and the larger ewes can also be quite "head"strong.... ANY tup (or billy goat, or bull or cow, ewe or horned nanny goat) CAN be dangerous, any time of the year.
I can see though where this thinking is coming from - most Shetland (and other rare breeds flocks) are kept in small flocks and are not really a commercial enterprise (I know I will be shot down for this :eyelashes: ). More likely to be treated like pets rather than farm animals - given treats, scratched etc etc. I also do fall into this category sometimes... but more so with my goats than with the sheep. Also I hazard a guess more Shetlands are kept by women than men... hence the twisted knickers, rather than boxers... :-J
It would be an interesting statistic to see if more people are killed by sheep than by cattle/quadbikes/tractors/horses/dogs etc etc - Given the number of sheep flocks in this country is probably higher than any other livestock and so it would make sense to have statiscally more injuries (and possibly deaths) from sheep than say cattle?
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I deal with horned tups, although not shetlands and they should be treated with respect. I wouldn't work in a pen with them unless I had someone there looking on, I have no doubt that a Wilts Horn could break your leg if it so desired.
I will occasionally feed them as I find them coming to the bucket a useful way to look them over, but I do not pet them or feed them regularly - tups should be frightened of you, IMO.
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Yes I think it's all about being sensible.
My OH found a quote of 896 people in the States being killed by sheep, many of them from infected bites ???
Anke I think you are right that many Shetland sheep are kept by shepherdesses, often older, and that because Shetlands look so cuddly they forget they are also male sheep. A tup lamb which has been petted so is a bit mixed up about which species he is, may well just be trying to include his owner in with his harem.
I don't think Shetlands are intrinsically any more dangerous than tups of some other breeds, but all tups, all animals, all humans too for that matter, are potentially dangerous.
I would though suggest that Soay tups are more aggressive than most (having watched them here up against Shetlands and multi-horned Hebs). This is perhaps due to the fact that on their native islands there are equal numbers of males to females, approximately, so tups have to compete to be successful at breeding, just as stags do. Even outside the breeding season a Soay tup has to establish himself in the pecking order. This has been his natural behaviour over thousands of years, with little intervention by Man, unlike most other breeds where there are far fewer tups per group of ewes, so not a lot to fight for.
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Yes FW, in my limited experience with sheep, even our ewes seem rather more "determined/ head strong" than the commercial ewes around here. My neighbour was very surprised at their strengh and amount they resisted when being handled compared to his big sheep. I suppose it follows that the tups are going to be a bit "brave".
Not wanting to steal your thread Jaykay but feel it is linked so will ask here,
What is the best course of action if a Soay, Shetland or other primitive shows aggression? With the tup we used last year, stick waving etc. just seemed to be seen as a challenge ::) and did not put him off at all.
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This is what I do.
I catch hold of his bottom jaw, my hand underneath and my fingers into his mouth. I hold on hard and no doubt it hurts.
Then I lift up his face so he is looking upwards at me. This prevents his normal aggressive stance of a lowered head and the eye contact also reinforces dominance.
And then I hurl abuse at him, as loudly as possible, from very close, and with as low a voice as I can manage (if you don't do this deliberately women end up shrieking when they shout, which is nowhere near as effective as a lower sound). Along the lines of 'don't you bloody dare, you £&@&& sheep, you'll see what happens if you carry on like that'. I don't suppose for a minute the words matter but the fact that I'm threatening him seems to :D
It sounds very silly written out like this. It's ok as long as the tup is small enough to get hold of in this way. I couldn't do it with my Roughs.
I stopped Onyx in his tracks like this - I only had to do it twice, to have him very respectful. Similarly, rather more gently, I have stopped my biggest tup lamb taking a dunt at me - he's stopped the practice too now.
So much so I had thought that I had the issue sorted, until all this talk on the Shetland forum. I shall revert to my above 'training/frightening the living daylights out of them' methods if necessary and otherwise enjoy them.
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Thanks Jaykay. I haven't heard that one and will try it if I need to.
Hope your Shetlands turn out to be meek and mild ;) ;D . Didn't realise there was a Shetland forum ..... useful to be able to discuss your breed with people that keep and understand them, I guess.
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Well, it's the Shetland Sheep Society email link. Not as sophisticated as this forum :)
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Though I have to say the conversation re tups there just now seems to have 'gone away with the faeries' in my very humble opinion ;)
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Er...your particular respondent on the shetland list went away with the faeries a long time ago Judith :roflanim: . Kind of turns my brain to porage ;D
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Oh, I'm glad it wasn't just me :D
Here's a sample of the conversation FW and I are talking about ;)
I try not to impose morals upon nature, nor harness the essence of the beast it is not mine to tinker or spoil , I am a mere observer & batten holder and must allow these primitive genes to remain , Hormones are the cause of the behaviour & nature, the animal out of season was very different, a more scientific stance would no doubt better explain the role of the rams behaviour , It would be easier to use an analogy but in consideration of our influence when we enclose living beings within rigid parameters and expect perceived good behaviour we diminish that which we seek because to remove any one thing we may loose other important elements, it is reasonable to suggest that the daughters of such a ram would indeed better protect their lambs or that it is specific to male behaviour patterns "in a wild and natural setting, where lesser masculine genes would have lost the females to wolves or inferior males and hence the species die out ", what role does that have in nature ?.
I would not allow this type of thing to exclude management or welfare, and acted to maintain them seeing as it's my doing the animals were in the situation in the first place, the females are easy to manage. It is fear which keeps us alive the antidote to complacency, we are not designed to do combat with Ovines and my physiological reactions were spot on.
I have had the very same thing happen twice before with two other bought in rams all blood unrelated, the only risk I take is exposing the truth rather than quietly culling it out and not going public, "Honesty"!!.
(Conservator of Shetland Sheep which by the way are not dumb fluffy pets)
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Well it is pretty easy to tell who it isn't from that quote. Mind I would agree that Shetlands are far from dumb on occasions both in the literal and figurative sense. I keep threatening to record Medici's baa and sell it to a foghorn manufacturer and I am still trying to work out how the little dears managed to open a gate the other day .......
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Oh, I'm glad it wasn't just me :D
Here's a sample of the conversation FW and I are talking about ;)
I try not to impose morals upon nature, nor harness the essence of the beast it is not mine to tinker or spoil , I am a mere observer & batten holder and must allow these primitive genes to remain , Hormones are the cause of the behaviour & nature, the animal out of season was very different, a more scientific stance would no doubt better explain the role of the rams behaviour , It would be easier to use an analogy but in consideration of our influence when we enclose living beings within rigid parameters and expect perceived good behaviour we diminish that which we seek because to remove any one thing we may loose other important elements, it is reasonable to suggest that the daughters of such a ram would indeed better protect their lambs or that it is specific to male behaviour patterns "in a wild and natural setting, where lesser masculine genes would have lost the females to wolves or inferior males and hence the species die out ", what role does that have in nature ?.
I would not allow this type of thing to exclude management or welfare, and acted to maintain them seeing as it's my doing the animals were in the situation in the first place, the females are easy to manage. It is fear which keeps us alive the antidote to complacency, we are not designed to do combat with Ovines and my physiological reactions were spot on.
I have had the very same thing happen twice before with two other bought in rams all blood unrelated, the only risk I take is exposing the truth rather than quietly culling it out and not going public, "Honesty"!!.
(Conservator of Shetland Sheep which by the way are not dumb fluffy pets)
Dear lord, I have never seen such a pile of crap written about sheep. Breeds are transient - we bred them a certain way and each person selects differently, they are not wild animals, they are there because of humans, not in spite of them.
Although I'm not sure the author of that mail would agree with me, mind... ;D
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;)
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Blimey ::) ;D
Okay, I may now be shot down :sofa: but if you look at what the writer is actually saying, in my opinion, there is quite a lot of common sense in there. I did have to read it 3 times though to make any sense of it at all. Think only having worked with young children and then just being "mum" I have lost the ability to decipher the flowery language so maybe I have interpreted it differently to others. Think the ideas in there are quite simple ones dressed in a lot of "language".
I'll have another cup of coffee ..... see if I read it differently.
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I think it's overly romantic and applies to wild animals not domestic ones.
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Hmmm... I am quite glad that I did unsubscribe recently... although that was after some conversations in Latin... ::)
I did read the above three times and have decided my brain isn't up to this.... ;D
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I did Ancient Greek at university (and have recently revived my study of it) and that is a lot easier to read and understand than the quotation posted :roflanim:
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I know very little of sheep in general so I suppose read it thinking mainly of Soay on St Kilda. Aggression in tups if that is how we are to describe it is I suppose quite natural and to do with survival of the species. Suppose we all partly work with that instinct when possible rather than clash with it eg. by feeding over the fence, removing the tup before handling ewes . She acknowledges that they are not wild in a sense by saying that she is basically "keeping" them and so must manage for welfare etc. I read that she doesn't want to lose their "primitive " nature ..... that is what makes them good mums and so on. The males "aggression" maybe important in retaining other things that we may value eg mothering . That she is willing to discuss openly the fact that they can be "aggressive".
Don't know .... is she someone very keen on not "interfering" too much with the breed in order to preserve what she believes are valuable instincts.
I have a neighbour who speaks in a fashion similar to this. At the end of the day it could just be said very simply, in very few words and then everyone would know what she wanted them to know.
But, hey, we are all different ::) ;D
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I understood what the person was saying, unfortunatley confusing 'rare breed livestock' with 'endangered species of wild animal' happens too often, to the point where people with certain breeds feel a bit 'naughty' crossbreeding with something else.
I remember when I first started with Wilts, ringing round numbers on the breed soc webpage and being told in hushed tones "I know its wrong, but they rear a superb lamb when put to the Texel"
They are your animals - do what you want with them, if we all thought like that, there would never be any new breeds of anything.
If it suits you, breed out agressive tups - it makes a whole world of sense to address safety issues before preserving an imagined 'wildness'....
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Suppose we all partly work with that instinct when possible rather than clash with it eg. by feeding over the fence, removing the tup before handling ewes
You see I don't want to do that if I can help it. I've been there, had a tup that was large and aggressive and I had to manage the place around him. And was scared dealing with him.
I don't expect my animals to be fluffy pets - but I do want them to be possible to work round without fear or damage. I want to be able to walk in their field without being attacked and I want to be able to feed the tup in with the ewes when it's tupping season - anything else creates a management problem.
I think that's what domestication is about and I don't see a role for aggressive tups in that - there are plenty of good, calm ones about.
I question any connection between male aggression and good mothering. There may be but I don't know of anything that has established that link.
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I agree with you Jaykay, once you domesticate stock you breed for the characteristics that you desire ..... keep what is good and breed out what you consider as undesirable. Too much aggression in a tup is dangerous obviously but I understood from posts on here that maybe feeding in a certain way when a tup is in with ewes may lead to problems that stem basically from "aggression". I suppose you are giving him a reason to be bossy because he is following you waiting for his dinner. I think that I could have made this mistake and this year will change the way I feed them while I have the tup. He will be on loan so I see it as my responsibility to handle him/manage things in a way that doesn't lead to any heightened aggression or give him a reason to feel that he needs to be bossy. That doesn't mean that I won't venture into the field or anything as dramatic as that but just that I will try not to put him in a position where he needs to get bolshy. Just as I removed him from the field when I had to deal with the ewes.
Would be easier if the tup was really calm and you could do whatever, whenever but is that possible in most cases? I haven't the experience to know ??? . Thinking about it, even when I have to treat our RIR hens for lice etc. I treat the cockerel first and then lock him in the coop while I treat the hens. He is a real gentle giant and would be in the pot if he wasn't but he gets upset if his hens are upset and so I don't put him in the position where he feels like he wants to have a go. Same thing as managing feed time with a tup in the field with ewes, I think.[size=78%] I am not saying that I would want to use or keep an aggressive tup anymore than I would keep a really aggressive cockerel. [/size]
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I think you're right, feeding gets many sheep a bit bolshy :D and it's worth thinking about the best way to do it.
I don't know that tups are ever completely sweetness and light when they're in tupping season (they are boys, after all ;)) but they vary greatly and it seems to me that keeping and breeding from very aggressive ones isn't sensible, whereas selecting calmer ones makes life easier.
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I have 6x Shetland rams, who are as soft and friendly as anything. They can be a little boisterous between each other and i do not have any ewes. They usally come bounding over when they see me and they love a good scratch.
Regards
Emily
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=takHH6pUNRI&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=takHH6pUNRI&feature=related)
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Poor bloke :D
Interesting that he grabbed his hat and ran away from the tup - I was expecting him to do what I'm sure most of us would have done and that would have been to beat it about the head with the hat, wave arms and roar at it and basically frighten it into backing off.
I guess familiarity with sheep there is the thing - that and not having just been immersed in cold water unexpectedly! :D
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Surely this is staged?
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Surely this is staged?
Definitely. A real fisherman would've rescued his rod. ;)
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Depends if theres crocs or gators in the water!
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Surely this is staged?
Definitely. A real fisherman would've rescued his rod. ;)
That's what my fisherman son said ;D But it does show how happy a tup is to biff someone from behind :sheep:
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We have borrowed a Shetland tup for our girls - wanted white as I get too fond of the boys who have to go off, but couldnt find one so a local lady has lent us a lovely moorit tup who was on Shetland til recently. She is pleased to have him away for a while so they can do a bit of fencing during his absence to make double sure he doesnt get to the ewe lambs :-))
Meet Ganzie! Hasnt butted me yet but I wont be turning my back on him!
(http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o405/lachlanandmarcus/P1030091.jpg)
(http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o405/lachlanandmarcus/P1030094.jpg)
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He looks nice - like his topknot :thumbsup:
If he gives you a dunt, immediately grab his bottom jaw hard, whip his nose up in the air so you're staring eye to eye at him, and roar at him. It's the immediacy and the shock that does the trick I think - it's very effective, you only have to do it a couple of times.
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Does the jaw grabbing, roaring etc work on all rams???! I have tried swearing at mine but he just looks at me in disgust! Unfortunately as bucket trained not much scares him although he gets bored if I ignore him and wanders back to his girls. Attention seeking like most men!!
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Does the jaw grabbing, roaring etc work on all rams
Only if small enough to get hold of! But it's worked on three Shetlands now.