The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: rikkib on November 03, 2012, 09:11:25 pm
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A neighbour of ours has a septic tank it no longer works they have not had it repaired But have decided to empty it themselves with a pump onto a common this is done quite discreetly when they hope no one is about as they have to pump it across a bridle way I know this must be illegal any one know the best place to report it
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local authority environmental health are the people who would deal with this
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I had to report someone once - EH came and looked and went away and the folk didn't repair their septic tank. To my knowledge it still causes problems to neighbours, but admittedly they ARE still using it.
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I'm afraid it seems to be assign of the times no one seems to bother anymore they might have to do something about it
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That said, dumping raw sewage in a public place is definitely illegal so if you report it at least you own conscience is clear.
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if it's being discharged near a water source or likely to leach into a water table (i.e. it's uphill from a water source) then Enviroment Agency. They are statutirily required to investiagte pollution of water sources.
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Think I will be busy Monday morning
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Just found out he actually allows his hens to free range on the dodgy ground and that he is selling eggs at local dog training group. Yuk
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That is gross. Environmental health ought to be told that.
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that is really bad. environmental health for sure.
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Environment Agency - they will come down on him like a ton of bricks - as underground water and watercourses will be polluted.
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Hello,
I have just finished my yearly, measured scooping out and hauling of waste water from the septic tank to fertilize my fruit trees. All part of my plan to not let nutrients escape the borders of my property line. What a waste to just dump all that.
Greetings,
Don Wagstaff
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:excited: What a great response and a great comment from Donald could you please let everyone know what you do with your fruit so we can all avoid it or perhaps your s--t contains no damaging bacteria I don't think so
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:excited: What a great response and a great comment from Donald could you please let everyone know what you do with your fruit so we can all avoid it or perhaps your s--t contains no damaging bacteria I don't think so
What exactly is sh1t used as fertiliser going to do to fruit? Unless of course you decide to rub your apples in it before eating them.
As for reporting defective septic tanks; it is the Local Environmental Health Department you should report it to. I know because I as an EHO in another life (Action can be taken under section 59 of the Building Act 1984 from memory).
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Yes , bacteria , good or bad , won't travel from crap spread on the ground , up through the roots , up the trunk of a tree and then into the fruit !
Spreading a layer of raw crap as a mulch under your strawberries would be unwise though!
The use of human manure is ok as long as common sense is used , that doesn't mean spread it on common land though !
If any women are on the pill , for instance , don't use the manure . The same applies to many medications .
Some illnesses and deseases should be avoided too , but in the main it is perfectly ok to use .
I wouldn't use it on root veg , and i would compost any i did use before use (as i do ) .
I have a compost loo that i use sawdust , leaf mould etc on . This is then composted for a year and then spread on willow beds , hedgerow or just on the grass .
Far better than flushing it down the loo to be pumped out of the 20,000 sewage outlet pipes around the uk , that pump raw shite out 24/7 !
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what russ said. exactly right. nothing wrong with human manure as long as its well composted or rotted.
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:excited: What a great response and a great comment from Donald could you please let everyone know what you do with your fruit so we can all avoid it or perhaps your s--t contains no damaging bacteria I don't think so
That's exactly what we used to do with our septic tank once each autumn you don't actually spray it on the fruit it is already broken down anerobically .
When we had the earthen closet aka dilly pan my old man and the next door neighbour helped each other out in early autumn by digging a four foot wide four feeet deep trench in the garden and barrowed the solid stuff out the receptor tank into the trench then gave it a deep straw covering and replaced the earth .
We always had fantastic veg from the trench areas especially runner beans . There is a pathogen risk apparently but country folk have done that for hundreds of years to help manure their gardens and it doesn't seem to have harmed many of them .
I have 6 x 11 cubic feet of composting dung and beddings from nine different creatures plus one bin of pure garden veg trimmings and bits of fishguts & fish waste .. what's the difference to that & humanure
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I read of an apple tree in a grave yard that people came to for the apples that were the best tasting in the County. After a while the tree died and they investigated the cause. They traced the root system to a nearby grave and exhumed it. They discovered that the tree roots had penetrated the coffin and grown down all the arteries in the body consuming the corpse. The remaining root system is in a museum somewhere, but that was why the fruit tasted so good. So the sewerage spread around the fruit trees will soak into the ground and affect the taste of the fruit - apparently!
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Hello,
All sarcasm aside then, I find it a strange thought process that distinguished human waste from say cow or chicken waste. Not that the one is equivalent to the other and I would not dump the same amount of chicken crap on the vegetable garden as cow manure but it is all a question of retaining nutrients close to the source.
Greetings,
Don Wagstaff
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I don't know whether it's scientific or just cultural but omnivores and herbivores have been regarded differently for thousands of years. I always assumed that the rejection of the pig as a food source by Muslims and Jews was originally based on food hygienie issues.
Likewise the British dislike of eating horse is presumably cultural?
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My understanding is that unless heat and chemically treated, the reason it is not recommended to use humanure on food crops is that some parasites/heavy metals/hormone chemicals etc will survive the sludging process even if composted for a long period and so retain a risk to human health.
I would not have a problem with using it on non food crops but not anywhere near food crops, especially those ever eaten raw.
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cant help but add my 2 pen'orth!!! Of course emptying your septic tank on common land is a total wrong and needs to be dealt with by EA or EH or both, but as to using sludge to feed your orchard.....
Worked for a water company as a Microbiologist for a lot of years recycling sewage sludge to agriculture and using it to reclaim barren sites (open cast mines back to forest etc) - sludge is BRILLIANT when spread properly. A long time ago water companies stopped spreading raw sludge (all anaerobically digested and tested since the 80s in the one I worked for), and had to be very carefull about all its constituants (metals etc) because most sewages works treat industrial as well as domestic waste.... but before that - used extensvely in agriculture to great effect. You've all probably been eating food grown with sewage sludge as a crontributory fertiliser for many years. In fact, pre sewage works the midden would always have gone back to the veg plot. Our septic tank soaks away into our orchard and we will be spreading the sludge around our many trees when we need to desludge, no fear of heavy metals, drugs or chemicals - I know just what goes down our toilet! Yes there is a potential biohazard to manage, and the aquatic environment needs to be protected - but only in the same way as other manures. Happy spreading!!
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There's a big difference between anaerobically digested waste and raw sewage. A lot depends on what they put down their septic tank. If they used the wrong cleaning fluids, for example, the contents of the septic tank won't have broken down properly.
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Ewww,It sounds really gross to me-and illegal! I hope some of you do not think it would be organic either! EH and such should be notified like everyone else said.
"I read of an apple tree in a grave yard that people came to for the apples that were the best tasting in the County. After a while the tree died and they investigated the cause. They traced the root system to a nearby grave and exhumed it. They discovered that the tree roots had penetrated the coffin and grown down all the arteries in the body consuming the corpse. The remaining root system is in a museum somewhere, but that was why the fruit tasted so good. So the sewerage spread around the fruit trees will soak into the ground and affect the taste of the fruit - apparently!"
I find that most odd seeing as we already use bonemeal and fish,blood and bone! Have you ever seen a barren graveyard?!
My Mum was buried in one of those "green" graveyards,all the tree's there seem to be doing rather well too.
"What exactly is sh1t used as fertiliser going to do to fruit?"
Err.two girls,one cup, ewww,yuk! No Thank you! :D
"I always assumed that the rejection of the pig as a food source by Muslims and Jews was originally based on food hygiene issues."
I had a Jamaican neighbour a very long time ago,I had asked him,why did he not eat Pork?
He said,what do Pigs do that cows,sheep and goats don't?? >:(...I thought about it and even shrugged :-\,I said,"well,I don't really know?! He said,East Themselves :o :rant:,Pigs eat themselves :o :rant:!And they are dirty!
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Mel - sewage sludge is an organic fertiliser in the chemical sense, if not in the soil association sense (although dont get me started on that one) - in that it is derived from organic matter, not petrochemicals.
I'm not supporting the dreadful practice outlined at the start of the post, but I do want to support the proper use of properly treated human waste as a fertiliser ;D .
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I still cannot see how it is called Organic and free from Petrochemicals when they are already in food in the supermarkets.
Just one example:
"Coal tar and petrochemicals are the sources of the artificial colours that go into our foods, and these artificial colouring ingredients are dangerous to our health. The human body was not designed to eat petrochemicals. You don't see people digging up petroleum and drinking it with a straw. That's not the kind of energy we're designed to run on. So why are we putting petrochemicals in our foods?
The food companies are doing it to sell a product and generate a profit, regardless of the health effects on consumers -- and the health effects have been worrisome. In fact, more than one artificial colour has been banned and pulled off the market over the last several decades because it was ultimately found to cause cancer. The safety of those still allowed on the market is highly questionable.
Eventually, artificial colours used in the food supply will likely be outlawed because they contribute to all sorts of health problems, the most notable of which are the symptoms diagnosed as attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), a behavioural pattern often brought on by Yellow #2 food dye. Children are being fed these chemicals in such large quantities that they begin to have nervous system malfunctions that ultimately are misdiagnosed as ADHD, learning disabilities, or violent behaviour.
If you want to reverse these so-called diseases in your children, one of the best things you can do is stop feeding them petrochemicals. That means you, as the parent, have to understand that your very instincts are being hijacked by food companies' use of artificial colours to sell their garbage products. It's automatic, it's innate and it's unconscious. You look at foods and you instantly evaluate them by their colour. It's something that you can't stop doing because it's part of your perception hardware. Food companies know this and they exploit it to sell you unhealthy foods artificially coloured to look nutritious."
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If any women are on the pill , for instance , don't use the manure . The same applies to many medications .
This, I think, is the most important bit. A lot of the meds we take goes straight through and ends up in our food again... In traces, but traces add up to more, and the cocktail of these traces will have goodness knows what effect.
Considering this, sewage sludge disposal will be a major headache for the coming years... I can understand organic certifiers not accepting it for application on their land - but what will we do with it? Landfill???
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it all ends up in the sea. as we here in cornwall know, with our extortionate water bills, money used to clean up the water that was made toxic by yup, the water companys.
http://www.sas.org.uk/ (http://www.sas.org.uk/)
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Yes it is a huge problem Ina .
I don't know the answer but in my own situation where i don't use chemicals and only very few meds when needed , i can recycle without to much worry .
If i doubt any batch of compost/manure , i put it on the willow bed or the hedge . This will only ever be used as fuel , or in the case of the willow it may be used to make baskets etc .
Even that isn't a perfect solution , but is as close as i can get .
I eat very basic food , with very few , if any , additives . More petro chemicals will fall from the sky to polute the veg i grow than i put on them , but there is nothing i can do about that .
The problem nation wide is very different though .
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A friend of mine has two children, one with Aspergers and the other with ADHD. She has ADHD herself. Being an ex-nurse, she understood a lot of the medical research she did into food additives. She then took her family off all but the very basic foods and certainly everything containing E numbers, then slowly re-introduced foods one at a time, removing them again if symptoms reappeared. Her children suffered from withdrawal symptoms for a while and she couldn't take them anywhere where they might be able to access food (friends' houses, cafes, etc as she couldn't trust them not to steal food.
Now, several years later, while they still have problems, they are very much reduced and the children are growing up into well adjusted people.
It just shows.
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We had problems a few years ago with our neighbours tank leaking into one of our paddocks. They were told to get it fixed right away. I had to keep the ponies off it for weeks until it tested safe.
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Hello,
Still, whether for food or for greenery - we all have that choice, right - there is no need to send nutrients off to a treatment plant or to pump them in a clandestine way over the fence when they can be retained close to home. And all the more reason to be conscious of what goes down the drains, though a good functioning septic tank is robust enough for almost anything typically used at home.
Greetings,
Don Wagstaff
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Back to original message this effluent has not degraded in the tank it is raw. The area is open and available to kids adults to play or walk through plus this is free ranged I know that degraded effluent can be spread on ground to improve fertility there is also the issue with flies and vermin that seems to thrive in that area and then enter our house and do what flies do. Could anybody say that they would not be very suspicious when they were eating the eggs he sells or the fly that settled on your toast next to your egg. :thinking:
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Defo needs reporting.