The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: Rhi on October 17, 2012, 12:06:01 pm
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Hi guys, for all who are interested.
Goat TB and bovine TB are completely different.
Its rare for it to occur in this country and when it does it is very serious, but our cattle being down with it does not restrict goat movements in anyway and they do not test for it.
Goats would only be tested if they got ill and a vet issued that a test should be done. I asked if mine should be done and he said certainly not.
This was said by a vet a who works for the welsh ministry of animal health.
Its put my mind at rest, especially knowing that TB in goats and TB in cattle is different and knowing its also rare also makes me feel better, I have 4 very healthy ladies, well all except the odd bad foot and I'm now going to be looking to purchase them a handsome boyfriend to save on stud fees etc. Thanks for reading x
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Thats really odd, Defra seem very specific that it is exactly the same form of TB, indeed there was a well publicised outbreak of it in 2008 (in Wales) ..... ???
http://animalhealth.defra.gov.uk/about/publications/advice-guidance/documents/14_Tuberculosis_in_mammals.pdf (http://animalhealth.defra.gov.uk/about/publications/advice-guidance/documents/14_Tuberculosis_in_mammals.pdf)
http://www.goatvetsoc.co.uk/tbingoats.html (http://www.goatvetsoc.co.uk/tbingoats.html)
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I, too spoke with a Ministry vet when we had the outbreak, and my own vet, and they all advised that seeing as we had a problem with TB, the likely source being the badgers, then I, and other people nearby should not graze our land, and if we had to, then keep them on a fenced in area, which hopefully the badgers could not get on to. Even though we had an outbreak they said they would not be testing the goats.
If it is the badgers that cause it, why is it only passed on to the cattle, not goats? The outbreak first started when some of the commercial pigs escaped from a farm up the lane, the only thing they came into contact with was where the badgers had been - no cattle. Next thing, the cows in the next field had it .....and so it came round like wildfire.
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Yes I read the same on the defra website.
He said goats won't pass it to cattle and vice versa. We have a badger problem here, our cows that were infected we're off our land else where, we tested so we could sell them when our positive results came back.
Vet assured me my goats don't need testing.
They graze woodland and have access to over 40 acres grazing, to keep them away from badgers I would literally have to keep them in all year round.
This TB is a nightmare, my mind did feel at ease after talking with ministry, have to say I'm starting to worry again now, I asked how I go about getting a test but he seemed adamant I didn't need to do it!!
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Well, when the outbreak came, the test was free, but a farmer was telling me that before he can sell his cows now, he has to have a test on each one, and pay for it. So, I assume you can do so with the goats. But, as I see it, or saw it with the cows, we did not know they had it ....they looked well, calved ok, it was only the test that said otherwise. Perhaps we are worrying about something our goats have not/will not ever catch. I know I do worry myself when a goat as much as coughs.
I am moving my goats to my new farm, but do wonder about the badgers there as its only over the hill, and badgers travel quite a distance every night. And the farmhouse next to our land does not help ...Badgers Clough. I will say no more!!!
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I think the ministry have their heads in the sand frankly. If they didnt, they would publish numbers of animals slaughtered after testing positive for m.bovis strain of TB for species other than cattle.
Instead they publish numbers for cattle, but for other species they just lump them in a herd - so if 400 alpacas test positive and are slaughtered in a herd, it counts as.......1 in the figures. Same for all other non-cattle TB cases, including domestic animals (who can also catch it) and deer.
Bizarre.
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TB is such a complex subject.
Couple of years ago we had a cow 7 months in calf test positive, we couldn't keep her until calving and she was killed, she nor the calf had any visible lesions on post mortem and culture came back clear also meaning she had been exposed but didn't actually have it, stress can also lead to a positive reaction.
Our 2 positives this time came back with visible lesions and we have 2 inconclusives to isolate and re test when we do rest of herd.
General testing usually twice a year I think is free but pre movement tests you do have to pay for which is how we found out about ours. I believe with goats its a blood test rather than testing for a reaction via a lump, am I correct?
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Hi guys, for all who are interested.
Goat TB and bovine TB are completely different.
Its rare for it to occur in this country and when it does it is very serious, but our cattle being down with it does not restrict goat movements in anyway and they do not test for it.
Goats would only be tested if they got ill and a vet issued that a test should be done. I asked if mine should be done and he said certainly not.
This was said by a vet a who works for the welsh ministry of animal health.
Its put my mind at rest, especially knowing that TB in goats and TB in cattle is different and knowing its also rare also makes me feel better, I have 4 very healthy ladies, well all except the odd bad foot and I'm now going to be looking to purchase them a handsome boyfriend to save on stud fees etc. Thanks for reading x
This from the current Animal Health leaflet on TB in other mammals, downloaded from their website (http://animalhealth.defra.gov.uk/managing-disease/notifiable-disease/bovine-tb/index.htm) today:
Goats
Like most mammals, goats are susceptible to
infection by bovine TB.
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I think the ministry have their heads in the sand frankly. If they didnt, they would publish numbers of animals slaughtered after testing positive for m.bovis strain of TB for species other than cattle.
Instead they publish numbers for cattle, but for other species they just lump them in a herd - so if 400 alpacas test positive and are slaughtered in a herd, it counts as.......1 in the figures. Same for all other non-cattle TB cases, including domestic animals (who can also catch it) and deer.
Bizarre.
They do publish numbers for both individual animals and herds. Go to this (http://www.defra.gov.uk/statistics/foodfarm/landuselivestock/cattletb/other/) webpage and download the spreadsheet "•Incidents of confirmed M. bovis infection in domestic and companion animals and wild deer in GB from 1997". The notes are clear - "The figures represent submissions from individual animals, not premises i.e. several submissions may be from the same premises"
The second table is the number of animals tested.
Maybe I am paranoid, but I would say they are actively trying to avoid finding m.bovis in goats.
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Hi guys, for all who are interested.
Goat TB and bovine TB are completely different.
Its rare for it to occur in this country and when it does it is very serious, but our cattle being down with it does not restrict goat movements in anyway and they do not test for it.
Goats would only be tested if they got ill and a vet issued that a test should be done. I asked if mine should be done and he said certainly not.
This was said by a vet a who works for the welsh ministry of animal health.
Its put my mind at rest, especially knowing that TB in goats and TB in cattle is different and knowing its also rare also makes me feel better, I have 4 very healthy ladies, well all except the odd bad foot and I'm now going to be looking to purchase them a handsome boyfriend to save on stud fees etc. Thanks for reading x
This is all making no sense to me.
Defra's website states, on this (http://www.defra.gov.uk/animal-diseases/a-z/bovine-tb/animal-keepers/other-species/) page, that
Sheep and goats will be TB tested, at Defra’s expense, if located on premises where TB has been confirmed in cattle (subject to findings of a veterinary risk assessment), or if M. bovis infection has been confirmed in the goat herd itself. Where an owner wishes to tuberculin test their sheep and/or goats in the absence of confirmed M. bovis infection on the premises or in the immediate vicinity, testing may be undertaken privately by the owner’s veterinary surgeon at the owner’s expense. Such testing must, however, be agreed and approved by AHVLA.
That reads to me that your goats should now be tested, Rhi, at the Ministry's expense unless your vet blocks it.
And it seems intriguing that, in the absence of TB in your cattle, you need AHVLA's permission to test your own animals at your own expense. I am definitely starting to feel some paranoia here....
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I too have been told for years that Goat TB is not the same as cattle TB (Which is probably why it isn't passed on by badgers)and that goats aren't susceptable to it anyway.What DEATHRA knows about goats can be written on the other side of the postage stamp the vets write their knowledge on ;) ;D Hence their stupid tagging and disbudding rules
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What DEATHRA knows about goats can be written on the other side of the postage stamp the vets write their knowledge on ;) ;D Hence their stupid tagging and disbudding rules
I think that is debatable. DEFRA is an organisation, not a person. What the organisation knows is what the many people who support (or work for it) know, and what they get advised by certain "experts". And moreover, not all the disbudding rules are stupid. I do agree that goats should be anaesthetised to be disbudded. And, in any case, it is the advice of the Goat Veterinary Society who have indicated their view on disbudding, it just so happens that obviously DEFRA will want those views to complied with.
Beth
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So, from what you have been told Rhi, Goat Tb is different to Bovine TB. It is not true !!!!!
TB is TB.......so deer who contract TB are Ok because it is deer TB and not bovine !! What about Camelids who also get TB which is bovine TB ?????
I'm afraid somebody is feeding you information which is, shall we say, flawed. Goats do get Bovine TB and you should have been offered a free test to ensure your girls are free of it.
I think the people you have spoken to are confusing this with Avian TB which goats are also susceptible to.
You can contact Nick Clayton at Goat Veterinary Society for further clarification.
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My understanding is that TB is a zoonosis and therefore transmittable between species. Its unfortunate in a way that it is referred to as 'bovine TB' as this is where people start to believe it is restricted to a certain type of animal. In fact cats, dogs, deer, cattle, badgers, goats.......can all catch it.
Here is a link to one of Nick Claytons articles on the disease
http://www.goatvetsoc.co.uk/alpacas.html (http://www.goatvetsoc.co.uk/alpacas.html)
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Thanks, I think I'll get in touch with this gentleman.
I don't mind paying for the tests for them.
It all started as I was curious as the whether the TB restrictions for our cattle included my goats, hence why I rang the ministry.
My vet told me straight off I didn't need to worry about them getting TB, then the lady who did our farm inspection said the same along with DEFRA, so I've been misinformed by 3 people within the industry who deal with TB. My best bet is to just test them.
Do all of you test your goats for TB? As you rightly say all animals can transmit it meaning they will be exposed to it, and is there a vaccination do you know to protect them? I feel my goats are like our sheep and cattle, they are pets and I would be extremely upset if any of them did react.
Also does this mean sheep can get TB too? I have to say I know the restrictions and I know plenty about bovine TB what with our cattle etc but nothing about what other animals etc it affects. Thanks
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There are more cases of bTB in sheep each year than there are in goats.
In 2011, there were 40 cases in pigs, 35 in sheep, 18 in cats, 17 in alpaca, 15 in wild deer, 6 in farmed deer.
The last year in which there were a number of cases in goats was 2008, when there were 33 cases. There was 1 in 2010. However, they test very few goats - 14 in 2009, 11 in 2010, 10 in 2011 - which, given the experience you are having, is making me rather worried that a lot of goats who should be getting tested are not being tested.
One of the politician's (small 'p') favourite tricks is to be able to say that, "we have found no evidence of xxxx" when in fact a more unambiguous statement would be, "We have not looked for any evidence of xxxx"
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Rhi - sorry about your cattle and the worry about your goats. :bouquet:
Did I read that you too are in Mid-Wales?
I know very little about TB, except what my farming friends up here tell me .... we only keep a few sheep.
So from what SITN writes, sheep can also contract TB. It is often a problem for farmers all around me ... reactors, cattle that are slaughtered leaving calves and then in some cases found not to have it and restricted movements. I have never heard them mention sheep and TB ??? .... and there are plenty of sheep here.
How would you know if sheep were affected? Can they not transfer it from place to place just as cattle would?
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This is just getting me wondering, I know badgers are usually classed as the carriers (not arguing that), but how often could wild deer be the carriers? How many people know if they have deer around during the night? I've been told there are at last 5 visit our lower fields but they are out of sight of our house. (And we don't get up early enough ;D )
The very fact they are wild and secretive means there are thousands untested and could be carriers?
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Its such a complex subject, I'm based powys mid wales,
We have muntjac deer visiting our fields at night along with the badgers and foxes, they all seem to descend on us as we are surrounded by woodland, forest and bracken hill side.
So my goats are exposed to it.
I have again rang the ministry explaining the circumstances and because I don't intend to eat or milk my goats there isn't any issue, but my vet has said if I wish to test they will happily do it.
I believe any animal can carry it, maybe without contracting it themselves. For instance if I have a badger proof shed but a mouse who's been in contact with another infected animal is it spreading it? Its so unclear and I have to say when I spoke to the ministry my mind was put to rest, but having read up and looked into it more I'm now very concerned. So complicated, I couldn't sleep last night thinking about it all, I will be testing my goats asap.
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Rhi, I did forget to say how sorry I am that you have reactors in your cattle :bouquet:
How would you know if sheep were affected? Can they not transfer it from place to place just as cattle would?
Abso-bloomin'-lootly. Is why we don't buy stock from south of us.
And yes, phb, deer are so widespread and clearly can get it, it's hard to see how they could be other than one of the vectors. The thing with badgers, as I understand it, is that they come right up to the farmstead, even into the sheds so get much more up close and personal with the cattle than wild deer would.
Rhi, thank you for wanting your goats tested :bouquet: I can see that the Ministry's focus is purely safeguarding human health, which is a noble aim - but surely they are ignoring the very real possibility of non-bovine livestock carting the ruddy disease about the country? :rant:
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If infected badgers are on land, foxes, deer, and even cats and dogs go on that same land......and where else do these animals walk. Apparantly, the badgers can infect other animals, by drinking out of their troughs, and also they will eat cattle feed left in troughs. Although our cattle were always fed in suspensed troughs well off the ground.
A farmer I know is surrounded by TB cases and shut down farms, and he runs a big suckler herd. So far, all his tests have come back clear. Hard to believe, but like he says, its probably only a matter of time.
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Sheep and goats are more resistant to bTB (Merck manual info) than cattle, so vets tend to advise testing only if there is suspicion of contagion. The fact that they are resistant and probably won't get ill, also means that catching the odd carrier might be difficult.
Other point: sheep and goats are VERY susceptible to M. avium (which is same family as bTB) and causes paraTB. It is a terrible disease and in cattle testing for bTB might come up positive even if it's just paraTB (which is still bad enough). I wouldn't be surprised if that is also the case in sheep/goats.
All in all, very complicated but surely if one wants to test for their own peace of mind, they should let you do it? Not somebody keep repeating is not necessary. It's true, sometimes you don't look for fear of what you might find, but these are terrible diseases and hiding their head in the sand won't help for re-election. politicians, blahh.
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para TB = Johne's disease... seems to be a completely different disease... and I do know of cases in Scotland.
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Well I have been onto ministry again today, didn't get any more info, and even though we have TB on the farm a test is not available for my goats, how ever obviously at my expense my vet will do it.
It appears they will test goats if there is a suspicious death within the herd and TB is suspected otherwise they've said there's no need for me to worry. According to vet goats are within the same family as sheep, who rarely get it so there is not as much to worry about, although I am worried, my goats are pets and very special ladies, wouldn't want them to be ill, but have to admit very scared that when they are tested I'll have bad news.
In some ways I wish I'd just carried on and not worried myself over it, but want to be a responsible goat owner and farmer.
I've been informed to badger proof my land and sheds, I mean physically how is this possible, my goats roam 40 acres including woodland, fields, rough ground, without confining them to a shed there's no way I could protect them fully, we we're also advised to "badger proof" our cattle sheds. Our cattle have never reacted during winter months when housed, they only ever react when they've been out during the summer, its impossible to protect them, the cost would be tremendous, probably bankrupt us!! It bothers me that TB is such a big thing in cattle but dismissed when it comes to other animals, they have such strict guidelines for cattle. X
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Given what badgers teeth can bite through, badger proofing is pretty well impossible for most set ups. Makes me :rant: when this is presented as 'the answer'. I think you are trying to be a very responsible owner and you would think the more testing the better. But sadly successive governments pass the parcel as they took their eye off the ball just at the point that TB was almost eradicated in the UK and now it is probably too late to control it effectively, and none of them want to really tackle it as they dont want to be holding the parcel when the music stops! :-(((
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In people we'd treat TB not shoot them. Why can't ill animals be treated? Ok, maybe not commercial cattle but why not pet goats?
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Why should "Pet" goats be treated any differant! Typical reaction,they run round developing vaccines for badgers but no one bothers about the Farmers cattle.
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Totally agree, they vaccinate badgers and humans, why not vaccinate cattle, goats etc.
We vaccinate sheep with 8 in 1 to protect them from certain diseases, and vaccinate cattle for various other diseases.
We only have a herd of about 60 sucklers but in 5 years we have lost approx 12 cattle to positive reactions to the test, only 5 of them had visible lesions upon post mortem, we have had 7 inconclusives, 4 of which had to be culled also as they we're inconclusive 3 times in a row, but also came back clear, the test is not accurate in my eyes for cattle, other animals can have it detected via a blood test, the same should apply for cattle. If a cow is stressed it can lead to a positive reaction. When we are clear of TB we have made the decision to give up breeding our own cattle (due to other commitments) and will actually be just buying in weanling calves to fatten, even when down with TB we can still send direct to slaughter and we can sell in a red market with a proper license. So many flaws in the rules.
I as you can tell have such strong views on this, and you guys have helped immensely when its come to my goats, fingers crossed they can be tested next week, I will also be enquiring as to whether there's a vaccine for them, they are vaccinated for tetanus, 8 in 1 like the sheep for various things also so why they can't be vaccinated against TB seems a little silly. X
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I must also apologise for my long replies, lol, once I start typing I find it hard to stop =/ x
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Totally agree, they vaccinate badgers and humans, why not vaccinate cattle, goats etc.
We vaccinate sheep with 8 in 1 to protect them from certain diseases, and vaccinate cattle for various other diseases.
We only have a herd of about 60 sucklers but in 5 years we have lost approx 12 cattle to positive reactions to the test, only 5 of them had visible lesions upon post mortem, we have had 7 inconclusives, 4 of which had to be culled also as they we're inconclusive 3 times in a row, but also came back clear, the test is not accurate in my eyes for cattle, other animals can have it detected via a blood test, the same should apply for cattle. If a cow is stressed it can lead to a positive reaction. When we are clear of TB we have made the decision to give up breeding our own cattle (due to other commitments) and will actually be just buying in weanling calves to fatten, even when down with TB we can still send direct to slaughter and we can sell in a red market with a proper license. So many flaws in the rules.
I as you can tell have such strong views on this, and you guys have helped immensely when its come to my goats, fingers crossed they can be tested next week, I will also be enquiring as to whether there's a vaccine for them, they are vaccinated for tetanus, 8 in 1 like the sheep for various things also so why they can't be vaccinated against TB seems a little silly. X
Vaccination for any livestock that goes into the food chain would make any further attempts at testing ineffective (since the vaccine isnt fantastically effective for TB, enough for humans who dont spit and cough at each other toooooo much but animals do!, testing would still be needed). As I understand it, unless a better vaccine comes along (or even then) currently EU rules would not permit vaccination, certainly if we wanted to be permitted to export meat.
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I must also apologise for my long replies, lol, once I start typing I find it hard to stop =/ x
Let it all out, sometimes you just need to share say what you think (as long as it doesn't get personal to others of course :innocent: ) hope it helps you feel better.
Rutland elecric fencers have a website where it suggests an elecric fence for badger control. 40 acres wouldn't be too difficult, esp if you can put the fence round the outside of your stock fence?
Just found the section I was thinking of,
http://www.rutland-electric-fencing.co.uk/PageAnimalPredatorNuisance.aspx?SiteID=2 (http://www.rutland-electric-fencing.co.uk/PageAnimalPredatorNuisance.aspx?SiteID=2)
and
http://www.rutland-electric-fencing.co.uk/PDFs/TipSheet-Badger.pdf (http://www.rutland-electric-fencing.co.uk/PDFs/TipSheet-Badger.pdf)
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If you vaccinate an animal against TB you won't be able to distinguish the reaction caused by the vaccine or by real infection. Also it is not very effective protection-wise (not as good as some respiratory disease vaccines or other products for sheep) and it could effectively mask carrier animals which you wouldn't cull thinking they were vaccinated, where in fact they are spreading it. Also blood testing doesn't work in this case, as the immune response to the TB bacteria is very different to, say, a viral respiratory infection. There is a collateral test for TB, other than the usual skin test, but it is not considered good enough to replace the skin test. Unfortunately for this disease, it is not the case of choosing the best test between many, but choose the least bad between just two!! ::)
One of the reasons why they vaccinate badgers is because they are supposed to be "protected" species and in theory (unless authorized centrally, as is the case for the current culls) cannot be killed. Same does not apply to farmed species and I agree is very unfair. However, it is generally agreed that people are more likely to pick up TB from their farm animals/pets than from a badger - at least I would. I'd have more contact with my cows (coughing in my air all the time) than with a badger somewhere in the woods. I think that is why there's less tolerance for TB on farms.
Also animals are not to be treated/vaccinated because there are very few drugs that can kill the bacteria, and there is widespread concern that by treating all species the bugs will get resistant to the few drugs and in that case we'd start seeing people dying of TB again. Surely we don't want that?
:(
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I must also apologise for my long replies, lol, once I start typing I find it hard to stop =/ x
Let it all out, sometimes you just need to share say what you think (as long as it doesn't get personal to others of course :innocent: ) hope it helps you feel better.
Rutland elecric fencers have a website where it suggests an elecric fence for badger control. 40 acres wouldn't be too difficult, esp if you can put the fence round the outside of your stock fence?
Just found the section I was thinking of,
http://www.rutland-electric-fencing.co.uk/PageAnimalPredatorNuisance.aspx?SiteID=2 (http://www.rutland-electric-fencing.co.uk/PageAnimalPredatorNuisance.aspx?SiteID=2)
and
http://www.rutland-electric-fencing.co.uk/PDFs/TipSheet-Badger.pdf (http://www.rutland-electric-fencing.co.uk/PDFs/TipSheet-Badger.pdf)
Im not sure how long and how many stock one would have to sell in order to pay for 40 acre perimeter badger fence??? not economically practical! and for a 2000 acre hill farm? .......:-(
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We rented 30+ acres out and because fences hadn't been replaced at the time the sheep farmer fenced it. 3 strands most of the way round.
If it keeps the animals protected from TB I think it would be well worth the cost of a unit and wire (it's not the netting or 'rope). once bought it should last for years. I was thinking it was 40 acres, not a complete hill farm.
And, of course this wouldn't stop deer etc either.
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Why should "Pet" goats be treated any differant! Typical reaction,they run round developing vaccines for badgers but no one bothers about the Farmers cattle.
all I meant was what the owner might want to do and also what the effect might be on an export market, the argument for foot and mouth destruction, which pet goats wouldn't affect.
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Why should "Pet" goats be treated any differant! Typical reaction,they run round developing vaccines for badgers but no one bothers about the Farmers cattle.
all I meant was what the owner might want to do and also what the effect might be on an export market, the argument for foot and mouth destruction, which pet goats wouldn't affect.
Actually in DEFRA/AH speak "pet" goats are the same as any goat and as far as I know are treated exactly the same way as any other farm animal... Quite a few herds disappeared in the 2001 F&M epidemic...
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I'm sure that's true.
However, goats would not affect the cattle export market, pet or not.
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There has recently been a breakthrough in a "diva" cattle TB test http://www.fwi.co.uk/Articles/09/10/2012/135640/NFU-Cattle-TB-vaccine-is-still-years-away.htm (http://www.fwi.co.uk/Articles/09/10/2012/135640/NFU-Cattle-TB-vaccine-is-still-years-away.htm) so a slow step in the right direction.
I never understood why badgers were picked on as vectors - surely any mammal is more-or-less susceptible to carrying TB?
Also, I know of a site where the RSPB put in heavy duty badger fencing - dug in the ground, thickest mesh I've ever seen, electric-topped....little sods dug under it ;)
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Badgers are very susceptible to catching TB, but take a long time to die of it so spread it for much longer, they are also very much more efficient shedders of the virus than most other species.
In addition, social patterns within badger groups, where diseased animals are forced out of the main set and end up searching for new territory mean that the disease is spread out of territory very efficiently.
Add to that the strength of their jaws to bit through anything but the strongest barriers and their scavenging habits and you have the perfect storm.
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i remember a while ago hearing something about vaccinated beef not being allowed to be exported to america, so maybe that applies to other cpuntrys?
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I'm sure that's true.
However, goats would not affect the cattle export market, pet or not.
Yes they do, because, in the case of FMD, if some pet goats are vaccinated, then the whole country cannot be declared FMD free.
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Madness. Same for TB?
So there can exist a way to deal with a (not very severe to the animal, FMD) disease and we can't use it, because it's not possible to distinguish between vaccinated and immune-having-had-the-disease? Both are immune.
I thought the virus-shedding carriers in FMD had been disproved? And anyway TB is a very different disease. What evidence of carriers in vaccinated animals there?
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I'm sure that's true.
However, goats would not affect the cattle export market, pet or not.
Yes they do, because, in the case of FMD, if some pet goats are vaccinated, then the whole country cannot be declared FMD free.
I don't think you would be allowed to vaccinate any kind of goat, as they are classified as farm animals that can (and do) enter the food chain. That's what differentiates them from alpacas for example.
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We've drifted into FMD from TB, but carrying on the drift.....
I found this in a set of FAQ in the USA, where some people are arguing that vaccination is the only sensible way forward.
Can tests tell vaccinated animals from those who've had the disease?
Yes. Tests now exist for distinquishing vaccinated antibodies in an animal from an infected animal. Pirbright has invented such a test in the last few years, as have several other institutions and/or companies in the US and the EU. The UBI diagnostic kits have been vigorously tested and validated, and they are manufactured in a GMP facility with strict quality assurance and quality control. The kits have been commercially available since 1999, and are currently sold worldwide through a USDA export license (except US domestic market).
I imagine the since the vaccine will be an attenuated strain it would be possible to distinguish those antibodies from 'natural' ones.
It feels like the UK government is terrified that the EU will impose trade bans if we vaccinated against FMD or TB for that matter. Why on earth do they have the power to do that 'unscientifically' >:('
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I'm sure that's true.
However, goats would not affect the cattle export market, pet or not.
Yes they do, because, in the case of FMD, if some pet goats are vaccinated, then the whole country cannot be declared FMD free.
I don't think you would be allowed to vaccinate any kind of goat, as they are classified as farm animals that can (and do) enter the food chain. That's what differentiates them from alpacas for example.
No longer the case 100% - alpacas are now entering the food chain....
http://www.stroudnewsandjournal.co.uk/news/9200967.Alpaca_first_for_Eastington_company/ (http://www.stroudnewsandjournal.co.uk/news/9200967.Alpaca_first_for_Eastington_company/)
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I'm sure that's true.
However, goats would not affect the cattle export market, pet or not.
Yes they do, because, in the case of FMD, if some pet goats are vaccinated, then the whole country cannot be declared FMD free.
I don't think you would be allowed to vaccinate any kind of goat, as they are classified as farm animals that can (and do) enter the food chain. That's what differentiates them from alpacas for example.
Yes, that's what I meant- it's why you can't vaccinate pet goats (or any ones) because then there would be animals in the system who might enter the food chain- or even their offspring because I am not sure how that would work either.
Beth
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I'm sure that's true.
However, goats would not affect the cattle export market, pet or not.
Yes they do, because, in the case of FMD, if some pet goats are vaccinated, then the whole country cannot be declared FMD free.
I don't think you would be allowed to vaccinate any kind of goat, as they are classified as farm animals that can (and do) enter the food chain. That's what differentiates them from alpacas for example.
No longer the case 100% - alpacas are now entering the food chain....
http://www.stroudnewsandjournal.co.uk/news/9200967.Alpaca_first_for_Eastington_company/ (http://www.stroudnewsandjournal.co.uk/news/9200967.Alpaca_first_for_Eastington_company/)
Wow :o .... have they changed their classification then? Given that breeding females still sell for a few thousand quid per animal, that would be some expensive meat... and DO WE NEED IT? ???
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With so many Alpaca's being churned out better to do something with the surplus not good quality rather than just breed more
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Wonder if its because alpaca breeders are finding it hard to stay afloat on what the average alpaca offers :-\ Prior to venturing into goatkeeping, I went to Moreton show to find out more about alpacas in a view to keeping them. The breeders I spoke to were visibly downbeat basically saying if you can't make decent clothes out of the fleece/fibre, then you'll never make any money out of the beasts. Coupled with the fact that they looked to me like something out of starwars up close, I settled for goats (and truth be told I'm rubbish with textiles). Maybe alpaca stew/curry/roast is a really good way of bringing some money back in during the economic downturn if people aren't buying nice alpaca jumpers but opting for cheaper options :-\
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In a country with 90odd different breeds of sheep with all sorts of wool on their backs I always wondered what alpacas had that sheep didn't.... I prefer to spin sheeps wool to alpaca...
I know a few people have got out of Alpacas..., but eating them must mean quite a loss to them on the whole... also do we need another (very expensive!) meat to eat in these tight times... I would rather opt for rabbits and other cheap meat (what about muntjac deer...)
Soory, hijacked the thread somewhat...
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I would rather opt for rabbits and other cheap meat (what about muntjac deer...)
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We had a gorgeous muntjac roadkill goulash with goats sour cream last week... :yum:
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Why do I never find road kill like that?
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I just turned into my driveway to open the gate on thursday and there was a muntjac just comming towards me,I've yet to teach Chelsea that Muntjac doesn't begin with "R" and therefore a no no! ;D
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We had a gorgeous muntjac roadkill goulash with goats sour cream last week... :yum:
None in Scotland (yet...). I have so far not had the guts to pick up road kill pheasants (which is usuallly the only one I find that would be remotely edible), as they often look really mangled...