The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: Maddie on October 02, 2012, 12:56:23 pm

Title: Adding to the flock!
Post by: Maddie on October 02, 2012, 12:56:23 pm
Some advice would be really helpfully please!!

I have already got four Buff Orpingtons which I have had since approx 10 weeks and they are now 24 weeks. There is enough room in the coup and run for more chickens and I would really like to get some more (2 or 3). I would also like to get them at POL, not as chicks.

I have read quite a lot of articles that advice NOT to do it as the new chickens will either be killed or spread disease to the rest of the flock, where as others say there are no problems.

Any advice on when (if ) is the best time to add to the existing flock and which breed to get as the Buffs were quite difficult to get hold of.

Thanks
Title: Re: Adding to the flock!
Post by: plumseverywhere on October 02, 2012, 01:16:18 pm
I frequently add a few to my flock as and when numbers require it.

I add them in at roosting time, yes there's a bit of a squabble and pecking order rearranging come morning but within 48 hours we have a happy flock. Just make sure you have gentian violet or purple spray to hand  ;)
Make sure any you buy in are vaccinated/wormed and so on. you might like to add poultry spice to their feed to cope with stress of moving.
If you are keen on the large birds, cochins are pretty fab  :)
Title: Re: Adding to the flock!
Post by: Maddie on October 03, 2012, 10:49:04 pm
Thanks that is great..

Do you know of any local breeders?
Title: Re: Adding to the flock!
Post by: Moleskins on October 03, 2012, 11:20:58 pm
I added two more to my five, put them in at evening time and all was well.
Title: Re: Adding to the flock!
Post by: plumseverywhere on October 04, 2012, 07:21:48 am
Quote from: Maddie on October 03, 2012, 10:49:04 pm
Thanks that is great..

Do you know of any local breeders?

where are you?
Title: Re: Adding to the flock!
Post by: Moleskins on October 05, 2012, 11:06:31 pm
Scotland I think Plums ......... Inver somewhere got to be a way off from you
Title: Re: Adding to the flock!
Post by: jaykay on October 06, 2012, 05:32:17 am
You do just need to be careful about disease. Potentially your newcomers could have things your existing birds aren't immune to and vice versa and the whole lot could get ill. Often you get away with it but...

Ideally you keep your new birds separate for about 3 weeks to see that they're ok. I often have mine in an ark that I move into the chook yard for the last week so that when I do sneak the newcomers onto perches in the dark, they're not total strangers.
Title: Re: Adding to the flock!
Post by: Castle Farm on October 06, 2012, 08:30:25 am
Quote from: plumseverywhere on October 02, 2012, 01:16:18 pm
I frequently add a few to my flock as and when numbers require it.

I add them in at roosting time, yes there's a bit of a squabble and pecking order rearranging come morning but within 48 hours we have a happy flock. Just make sure you have gentian violet or purple spray to hand  ;)
Make sure any you buy in are vaccinated/wormed and so on. you might like to add poultry spice to their feed to cope with stress of moving.
If you are keen on the large birds, cochins are pretty fab  :)

This goes against all principles of poultry keeping, but hey! why should I worry about it they are not my birds and I don't give a fig for animal welfare.
Title: Re: Adding to the flock!
Post by: plumseverywhere on October 06, 2012, 08:37:21 am
Perhaps I should clarify, I have a 'broody coop', in my case a house that takes 3-4 hybrids. This is where new birds go initially. it has its own enclosed run.

WHen I actually add them I follow the method I described above.

Lovely to hear from you Castle Farm, your comments are always so helpful
Title: Re: Adding to the flock!
Post by: Mel on October 06, 2012, 09:05:32 am
 Uh oh, I know where I am going! :sofa:
Title: Re: Adding to the flock!
Post by: hughesy on October 06, 2012, 09:18:46 am
Fact is at some point most people will have to integrate some new bought in birds to their existing flock. CF makes valid points however back out in the real world adding new birds happens all the time and rarely are there any real problems if the birds have come from a decent source and are healthy.
Title: Re: Adding to the flock!
Post by: in the hills on October 06, 2012, 09:37:07 am
It is probably best to separate for 3 wks IF possible. If you can't then as a previous poster says  :thumbsup:  source your birds carefully ...... maybe avoid auctions etc. I do separate but my father has kept poultry all his life and never isolated new birds. He has never had problems .... okay lucky maybe ..... of course there will be more risk. I suppose when taking on a new dog,cat or anything else it is best to isolate initially but maybe not always possible.  ???
Title: Re: Adding to the flock!
Post by: plumseverywhere on October 06, 2012, 10:02:33 am
Its also tricky to know what a 'good source ' is I suppose. Places like TAS are good to recommend based on peoples good experiences but pot luck as to finding someone local to you as we are spread far and wide.
Is the large supplier of birds definitely the better option than a small scale hobby breeder? no, not always.
I think I said in my initial post on this thread that I'd make sure new arrivals had been vaccinated and wormed and that's what I do.
Title: Re: Adding to the flock!
Post by: deepinthewoods on October 06, 2012, 11:13:48 am
i can see why keeping them seperate for a few weeks could be useful but probably only for people who are keeping high value stock, proffesional breeders etc etc. ive only been keeping chickens around 10 yrs and only up to about 25 birds  ive never quarantined, i always try to add birds by confusing the pecking order, so if ive got ten birds and i want to add 5 ill split the 10 into two groups, ad the new five to one of them then put the other 5 back in after a day or two, it works for me.
ive only ever lost 1 bird to illness.
Title: Re: Adding to the flock!
Post by: Castle Farm on October 06, 2012, 11:27:48 am
If you keep poultry you have your own 'set' of bacteria and viruses and your birds usually build up an immunity to the 'set' you have.

Some birds are carriers and look to be perfectly healthy and when you introduce them to other poultry, even at shows, you transfer one 'set' to another bird.

Buying from a local reliable breeder is no guarantee that the birds you buy are totally free of fleas,lice,mites, scaly leg or many of the other disease problems poultry carry. You take a huge risk of cross contamination every time you bring in a new bird/birds.

I run a closed flock here and never ever buy in birds, eggs yes, but I wouldn't want the risk of bringing in any viruses that my 400 birds cannot deal with.

Besides the problem of pecking order and new birds will be attacked ( Purple spray does not have any effect on the stress levels or bullying) your introducing strangers into a community that will defend the space they have and can result in serious damage to a bird.
Adding birds that have been vaccinated to birds that haven't introduces carriers of whatever the birds were vaccinated for. The untreated birds have no immunity to it.

I can do without your smart arse comments Plums. I think I know slightly more about poultry than you do my girl.

Quote from: plumseverywhere on October 06, 2012, 08:37:21 am
Perhaps I should clarify, I have a 'broody coop', in my case a house that takes 3-4 hybrids. This is where new birds go initially. it has its own enclosed run.

WHen I actually add them I follow the method I described above.

Lovely to hear from you Castle Farm, your comments are always so helpful
Title: Re: Adding to the flock!
Post by: deepinthewoods on October 06, 2012, 11:30:45 am
totally unnecesary castle.
Title: Re: Adding to the flock!
Post by: Castle Farm on October 06, 2012, 11:39:23 am
What worried she might leave again Wooods ?

I post in here to give advice on subjects I know about, bit like Robert, but if you dissagree with a stupid post by a member your in the wrong.

Please only post advice if you know what your talking about.
Title: Re: Adding to the flock!
Post by: deepinthewoods on October 06, 2012, 11:44:02 am
offering advice is one thing, being patronising, condemnatory and rude is another.
Title: Re: Adding to the flock!
Post by: in the hills on October 06, 2012, 11:45:09 am
CF - Your replies show that you have much valuable knowledge and experience, as have many others on here. I think maybe the way you have phrased your replies over the last couple of days may have been taken the wrong way .... sure you are just trying to be helpful.


I think that your facilities/set up maybe on a much larger scale than many peoples on here and so people cannot always match your methods of isolation or indeed raise all their own stock to ensure a closed system.


Cross posted with you CF - no not in the wrong at all. You did post after one of my replies yesterday and I wasn't sure if you disagreed with me or the previous poster but your response could have been taken as a little blunt or however you would like to phrase it. I don't mind at all if someone disagrees with me. I don't claim to be an expert and I am always willing to learn. As a farmer friend of mine says (who I do believe knows his stuff) a good stock keeper is never an expert but always willing to listen and learn.
Title: Re: Adding to the flock!
Post by: Dan on October 06, 2012, 12:24:32 pm
Quote from: Castle Farm on October 06, 2012, 11:39:23 am
I post in here to give advice on subjects I know about, bit like Robert, but if you dissagree with a stupid post by a member your in the wrong.

Please only post advice if you know what your talking about.

And please only post if you can do so without calling other members 'stupid', being patronising or festooning your post with sarcasm:

Quote from: Castle Farm on October 06, 2012, 08:30:25 am
This goes against all principles of poultry keeping, but hey! why should I worry about it they are not my birds and I don't give a fig for animal welfare.

I know you don't agree with the decision about Robert, and it seems to me that your posts in recent days have been deliberately provocative.

We absolutely welcome your experience and advice, but please try to offer it in a way that members will respect, and that reflects well on you. If your primary concern is the welfare of animals then it's pointless offering good advice if it isn't heeded because of the way it's delivered.

Thanks,

Dan
Title: Re: Adding to the flock!
Post by: Castle Farm on October 06, 2012, 02:36:14 pm
OK! How can I put this that does'nt sound patronising or sarcastic.

What Plums advised was wrong on so many levels, one of them being to cause un-necessary suffering to poultry by putting in new birds with old.

 How do you tell someone they are doing that without them taking offence?

Lovely to hear from you Castle Farm, your comments are always so helpful

That was, in my opinion provocative. She backtracked on her next post after being told she was wrong, as it seemed she didn't just pop them in after dark, but came up with a spare coop. :innocent:

This site is for 'Smallholders' who need the right answer first time, as it effects the welfare of animals and poultry.
If you want to take advice from people who don't know the correct way to deal with a problem be it on your own heads.

One thing for sure. The next time someone asks this question they should know what the answer is.
Title: Re: Adding to the flock!
Post by: Moleskins on October 06, 2012, 03:15:50 pm
Right, I'm at the other end of the scale to Castle Farm, he / she has hundreds of hens, I have 5 none of which are laying and I want to introduce 2 more which are laying. Purely and simply to get some eggs as I have no idea how long it will be before my 'point of lay' hens see the point in laying.
I have one hen house.  How do I go on ?
Title: Re: Adding to the flock!
Post by: deepinthewoods on October 06, 2012, 03:20:35 pm
i would erect a temporary fence/divider in the run. put 3 of the original hens one side, add the 2 new ones to the other 2, leave them like that all day, then let them all go in a t night together. you might have to seperate in the morning again,judge it on  how the bullying is. this technique has worked well for me in the past, i cant abide watching the violence of introductions!!
Title: Re: Adding to the flock!
Post by: Dan on October 06, 2012, 03:31:17 pm
Quote from: Castle Farm on October 06, 2012, 02:36:14 pm
OK! How can I put this that does'nt sound patronising or sarcastic.

Just the way you did, thanks.

Quote
Lovely to hear from you Castle Farm, your comments are always so helpful

That was, in my opinion provocative.

It was provocative, and plums shouldn't have said it, but it was also in response to your first post in this thread, which was equally unhelpful to the OP. Had your first post contained some advice based on your knowledge and experience we wouldn't be here.

If we can get back to the poultry that would be grand.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Adding to the flock!
Post by: in the hills on October 06, 2012, 03:45:19 pm
Moleskins - there is another thread in this section on this matter.  I would do as DITW suggests but I also wire the indoor section if this is possible. They are completely separate but can see /smell each other - no physical contact allowed  ;D . Of course it won't prevent spread of disease/parasites ..... I am assuming you do not have facilities to isolate.  :eyelashes: New and old hens have own food/water hoppers - no competition.


Hens can be very spiteful/territorial so anything to reduce stress and hence happy hens. Good welfare= better / faster laying.


In my opinion.  :relief:
Title: Re: Adding to the flock!
Post by: Moleskins on October 06, 2012, 07:53:26 pm
Thank you for the advice, the reading I had done previously led me to do this.
The house has a small run attached to it, I put the new hens in the cardboard box they were fetched in into the run and opened the box. This was just before locking up time, at their own pace the two new hens came out and there was a few fisticuffs, the box provided a bit of cover for any hen who wanted to dodge round the corner out of the way.
I then ushered them into the house and left them 'til the next day when they came out they were fine. Two weeks later we see the very odd scuffle but there has never been any serious problems, no blood, no feathers flying etc.
What I didn't appreciate is the infection risk, positive forum posts though have wised me up to this for next time.
Title: Re: Adding to the flock!
Post by: Daisy-at-the-dairy on October 07, 2012, 08:37:21 am
Seems to me that plums was simply giving her experience and what worked for her, which is fair enough. CF clearly has much knowledge and experience to contribute but there's really no need to phrase it in such a way that people feel small and stupid. And addressing an adult as "my girl" is rude and patronising, whether you know more about chickens than they do or not.


I hope the original questioner hasn't been put off keeping chickens by all this sniping as it's really a peaceful and pleasant activity with many nice people involved.


Off to hide behind the sofa now. ;)
Title: Re: Adding to the flock!
Post by: Possum on October 07, 2012, 07:54:17 pm
Moleskins,


Thanks for sharing your experience with us. I'm about to integrate 3 bantams with my two remaining utility hens and I'm quite worried about it. It's nice to know that these small scale methods do work and that the new hens shouldn't have too much of a hard time.