The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: colliewoman on October 01, 2012, 09:07:00 pm
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Hey all!
I am picking up some piggers on Wednesday but haven't had much to do with pigs for a long time.
Things have changed I know but would like some clarification as to what I can and cannot do.
I can buy my pigs a sack of carrots, or dig them some from the garden but NOT give them one from the kitchen?
I can collect windfalls and feed them, but not fruit from the fruitbowl?
I can feed eggs from the hens, but not hard boil them and feed them?
have I got the hang of it?
What about goats milk? Am i 'allowed' to feed it???
Can I ask the baker for the stale loaves that don't sell or the market lady for the bruised veg?
I used to speak fluent MAFF, but apparently i'm not so hot with speaking DEFRA ;D
I am soooooooo excited :pig: :pig: :excited: :excited: :excited:
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Don
Essentially, if it comes through your house...AT ALL.... YOU CANNOT FEED. I had to do all this malarky when we had pigs. No more slop buckets, you can milk-rear pigs as long as it doesn't enter your home first i.e straight from milking goat to trough.
I just picked up your message! I don't have my trailer til Sunday as it is on loan to Jo and then Lorraine. Sunday I need i
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Poo! Nevermind hun, i will find a way ;)
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Colliewoman
I have a trailer you could borrow.(I presume it's for sheep) I'm near Taunton. Can you come and pick it up??
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Make an oudoor kitchen !
I moved a wood burning stove out the house and set it up in a hanger last year - sold it for scrap metal though. Now I light a fire outside and cook up spuds etc in the garden - we trim veg outside anyway and keep a bucket at the backdoor.
Maybe we should keep bread and cake in the car so that we can feed them the stale stuff that has never entered the house. ;D
Martin
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CW.... half my message was missing on here...I pm'd you the rest LOL
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Colliewoman
I have a trailer you could borrow.(I presume it's for sheep) I'm near Taunton. Can you come and pick it up??
Thats so kind of you but I have sorted one out now :-* :-* Thank you :thumbsup:
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Hey all!
I am picking up some piggers on Wednesday but haven't had much to do with pigs for a long time.
Things have changed I know but would like some clarification as to what I can and cannot do.
I can buy my pigs a sack of carrots, or dig them some from the garden but NOT give them one from the kitchen?
I can collect windfalls and feed them, but not fruit from the fruitbowl?
I can feed eggs from the hens, but not hard boil them and feed them?
have I got the hang of it?
What about goats milk? Am i 'allowed' to feed it???
Can I ask the baker for the stale loaves that don't sell or the market lady for the bruised veg?
I used to speak fluent MAFF, but apparently i'm not so hot with speaking DEFRA ;D
I am soooooooo excited :pig: :pig: :excited: :excited: :excited:
Hi CW :wave: welcome back to the world of pig keeping :thumbsup:
You can feed your pigs from the fruitbowl - as long as it's not kept in the kitchen or took the fruit into the kitchen & washed it first - I know some of this can be so obscure, but basically the pigs can eat anything vegetarian produced off the farm as long as it's not gone through your kitchen.
Stuff from the baker is ok - as long as it's not been anywhere near pies & pasties in it's production & out-of-date fruit & veg is ok (bar the usual parsnips, celery, raw spuds etc) as long as it's not getting mouldy.
:love: :pig: :love:
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Look forward to hearing about your new family when they arrive :excited: ( and a piccie or two please :eyelashes: )
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They are here, they are adorable :love: :love: :love:
I have them in an old polytunnel thingy, no plastic but completely enclosed in very heavy duty galvanised mesh, built a shelter for them and stuffed it to the roof with straw.
They are having a great time in there.
Pignuts when they got here, and apples and goats milk for tea. They were asleep in a pile of straw so soundly i had to poke them to wake them up :love: :love:
i am in love :pig: :pig:
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Aww :love: :pig: sounds like they've settled in well :thumbsup:
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Donna, them piggers sound gert lush! What make/model/flavour?????
i am getting pigggggggers again soon too... depending on my arse getting this fencing up! LOL!
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They are very squeeable Oxford Sandy and Blacks :love: :love: :love:
I'm just trying to get my head around how to record the movement at my end???
Bloke on the phone said it is done online from the departure holding, but I don't feel right not having a paper copy. I don't understand the pig system AT all! I thought it would be the same as sheep and goats ??? OCD aaaarrrrgh ;D ;D ;D
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Ellisr should have printed you off a movement sheet when she did the AML from her end, then you go to the AML2 website and log in using the ref number on the sheet she gave you to confirm the move at your end. Ask her to e-mail you a copy of the AML she's done and you can print it off,This is what iyou will see on this site
http://www.eaml2.org.uk
Not registered and received a movement?
To provide feedback on a movement you can click here to enter the reference number from the haulier summary for a fast track registration.
Received a Farm to Farm Movement?
Have you received a new eAML2 Farm to Farm movement and are not yet registered for the eAML2 service? To provide feedback on a received movement simply enter the movement reference number from the haulier summary sheet below for a fast track registration.
Movement:
Enter the code provided on the movement paperwork. Once registered you will be able to confirm the required feedback.
I'm reporting feedback on a movement from Scotland
Then fill in the rest of the boxes and follow the instructions as applicable. You will need your CPh and herd number to hand.
Hope this helps.
All the best Mandy :pig:
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thank you :-* :thumbsup:
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Ellisr did print off the forms but had to wait until she got to work to get them as my printer is packed
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yes pigs can goat milk or powdered goats milk, i have a micro pig (Percy) he is so cute he does get yogurts and things though but he seems to like that to make his pig pellets more sloppy and pig like:)
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Ellisr did print off the forms but had to wait until she got to work to get them as my printer is packed
Calm down woman, breathe,Wasn't saying you hadn't, so long as Colliewoman has a reference from you the paper is irrelevant though like her i do like me paper system. We've all been saying for ages that this new electronic system wasn't going to work especially if people's printers weren't available so no worries so long as you get there in the end. I was just instructing what to do with it.
:bouquet: Ellisr and :fc: your move goes well.
Mandy :pig:
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The electronic system is set up for commercial farmers and not small farmers. You need a blinking degree just to get through it and then find out that animal health still haven't got your records right after 3 years of informing them the same thing over and over
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Couldn't agree more. Why do they always have to have one size fits all mentality when it clearly doesn't, systems designed by civil servants and so called 'advisors' who wouldn't know a cow pat or pig turd if it was slapped in their faces!
Mandy :pig:
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Every time i do a movement to send pigs for slaughter i get a message to say we are not registered to keep pigs and to contact animal health. I phone animal health and we are definatly registered, they say its a glitch in the system :-\
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i have a micro pig (Percy) he is so cute he does get yogurts
Sorry but you are not allowed to feed yogurts to pigs.
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Thanks guys!
Ellisr hope it all went well today :hug: I had a look onlin at the pig defra stuff :tired: :tired: :tired: :tired: will try again tommorrow!
You will be pleased to know that I had to take the girls their tea inside their house as they were NOT coming out in the rain to get it :D :D
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And more importantly Lill no such thing as micro pigs.
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And more importantly Lill no such thing as micro pigs.
Don't go there!!!! You are being mischievous!! :innocent:
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micro pigs do exist they just arent as small as what people think but they are smaller than a normal sized pig ( if you pick the right one) and how are you not allowed to feed a pig yogurt?...
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:sofa:
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As I said no such thing as a micro pig. They are pot belly or kune kune or what ever crosses. :huff:
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Anyone for popcorn? :innocent:
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ok before it degenerates jennapiggy, lots of people on here are passionate about piggies and the whole micro piggy argument is the closest thing to pouring petrol on a bonfire you can do on TAS...
it will cause a row, micro pigs are at best cross breeds of small species ut are often bred from runts etc in the hope of getting small pigs, there is plenty of evidence on the site of just how big some micro's have gotten!!!
as to the yoghurt, no animal produce can be fed to piggies its EU rules someone will be able to quote the details if necessary.
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OK....so you can feed goats milk to pigs but not yoghurt....explain someone please....If it comes from the local dairy but has not been in the kitchen whats the problem?
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Yes David you are quite correct, we are passionate about our pigs and all the other animals we have, BB i know there is no such thing as the micro pig crap I just was'nt wanting to start an argument. There is only 2 types of small pigs, they are either Kune Kune or pot bellied pigs, you know that they breed from the runts of the litters, don't get the proper feed to make them grow, it is just the same as starving a child, no proper nutrition no proper growth. MICRO PIGS DO NOT EXSIST JENNAPIGGY SORRY!!!
Dairy products come from cows jennapiggy and if you are not producing dairy products yourself, it is illegal to give your pigs by products of an other animal. Recently on this forum there has been so much dis information regarding pigs and feeding and no one is prepared to condem these irresponsible posters, there has been enough said over the passage of time about what can and can;t be fed to pigs and I really think some people just come on to antaganise posters on this forum.
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Crikey.....don't usually go on the pig bit of this forum.....and will go back to the sheep and stay there! I know you cannot feed 'animal waste' to pigs because it might contain meat by products....however cannot see how that applies to spare yoghurt from local dairy nor antibiotic milk from farm up the road....And I am not asking just to have my head bitten off :tired: Can someone point me to the right legislation please!
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The way I read the rules is you are allowed to feed milk straight from the goat (cow) as long as the goat (cow) is on the same holding.
Which for me is a bit of a bugger as my goats are less than 1/4 mile away from my pigs but the parcels of land have different holding numbers ::)
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Well since they are both your holdingd Don I wouldn't worry!
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:D :D :D :D
I consider myself to be an intelligent woman, but I'm buggered if I can fathom the pig feeding regulations! If you look at my tesco thread, then try and decipher the milk guidlines my ideas of lovely bread and milk for my pigs is suddenly a huge can o worms :roflanim:
Today I have been worrying cos the little dears didn't seem keen on their breakfast. didn't want to come out for their tea either :o :o :o
Turns out I had to fetch their trough to them in the sty so they could stuff their faces wivvout the nassy wain getting dem wets. :roflanim: :roflanim: :roflanim:
Divas! :love: :love:
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This is a useful article regarding pig-keeping (feeding is about half-way down the page) http://www.thepigsite.com/articles/?Display=1153 (http://www.thepigsite.com/articles/?Display=1153)
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A "MICR*-PIG" - it is not a recognised breed, but a generic term used to describe off-spring of various mixes, that may include Kune Kune, Pot-bellied or Meisham - many produced by repetitive breeding of runt to runt. All piglets are small when born, no-one can guarantee any "micr*-piglet" will remain small - by the time it reaches maturity at 2 years of age, if it has been reared with correct welfare & care, it will grow to the size it's DNA dictates - often resulting in a pig larger than the recognised pure-breeds above.
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Many Tanks Beewyched.....The table of permitted feeds from the pig site confirms my thoughts that you CAN feed milk and other dairy products so long as they do not come from catering establishments. So folks go and look at this table. This is why bread from bakers, milk from dairies and veg from greengrocers etc CAN be fed to pigs....
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Hang on a minute!!!!
That chart is written in plain English :o :o are you sure it's official?? :innocent: :innocent:
Fab info, thank you very much :thumbsup:
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The date on that seems to be 2004, is it possible rules have changed since? Hope not though :fc:
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Please go on the defra site and type in a guide for pig keepers 2011. If you read this it may prevent some posters from having their foot in their mouth. It is very clear and is also written in plain English, with the provision "if in doubt don't feed it", this guide cannot make it anymore clearer than what it is unless you produce the milk or milk product on YOUR premises you CAN'T feed it, unless you get a licence to do so, forget the pig site and read the current legislation, in the interests of all pig keepers.
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OK LLIL.....are you a DEFRA paid worker....please relax.....! :thumbsup:
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Quote from 2011 DEFRA website:
See....you CAN feed milk to pigs....just takes a phone call, thats all. AND you can feed other waste food....see below!
There are however a small number of exceptions
[/color]to this, and the following materials may be fed to pigs:
[/color]• Liquid milk or colostrum may be fed to pigs kept on the same holding as that on which the
[/color]milk or colostrum originated;
[/color]• Former foodstuffs other than catering waste food from kitchens etc (see above) containing
[/color]rennet, melted fat, milk or eggs but where these materials are not the main ingredient;
• Fishmeal, (animal derived) di-or tri-calcium phosphate, or blood products if suitably[/font]
[/color]processed (see TSE Regulations internet link below); and
[/color]• Milk, milk products and white water when suitably treated.Please note that anyone obtaining waste milk, milk products or white water to feed to their pigswould need to register with Defra for this purpose, although, in the case of milk products, thiswould only be necessary it they contained more than 80% milk. Details on how to register areavailable from either the Defra helpline (08459 33 55 77) or the internet
(www.defra.gov.uk/food-farm/byproducts (http://www.defra.gov.uk/food-farm/byproducts))[/font]
[/color]It is permissible to source certain types of former foodstuffs (see above), as well as fruit and
[/color]vegetables, from non-catering premises for feeding to pigs, but this must only be done from
[/color]those premises that either do not handle materials banned from being fed to pigs, or that have
[/color](HACCP) procedures in place to ensure complete separation from prohibited materials, and
[/color]these procedures have been agreed with the local authority.
[/color]If you are uncertain about what can and cannot be fed to your pigs please contact your local
[/color]AHVLA Regional Office for further advice. A list of these offices is available on the internet
[/color](http://animalhealth.defra.gov.uk/about/contact-us/index.htm (http://animalhealth.defra.gov.uk/about/contact-us/index.htm))
[/color]If in doubt don't feed it.
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WV, no not defra worker, they can't even sort out some easy questions for me and i have to do the research myself, i am just very concerned that some on this forum are ignoring the rules when it comes to feeding pigs with animal by products. The rules are there for a reason and we all have to keep to the rules, if there was another outbreak of f&m because someone decided to disregard the legislation and my animals had to be destroyed because of the rule bender, i personally would got out my way to make that person's life pure hell, some folk always think "it's not going to happen to me" :rant: Rant over.
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:hug: I quite understand!
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its quite easy if you extract milk from your own cow or goat its ok to feed to your own pigs.
we get spoilt veg & fruit from a veg packers station no banned goods on their site just fruit and veg thats also fine.
if we were able to get bread from a bakery that had no meat on site that too would be fine.
why do people want to read what they want to read into these matters and do what they want to do regardless of rules.
i am with lillian i would be ranting a good one if f&m broke out again by some rule bender. my animals are worth more to me than saving a few coppers by feeding banned feed whats wrong with pig nuts / meals its got everything in a pig needs.
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Crikey.....don't usually go on the pig bit of this forum.....and will go back to the sheep and stay there! I know you cannot feed 'animal waste' to pigs because it might contain meat by products....however cannot see how that applies to spare yoghurt from local dairy nor antibiotic milk from farm up the road....And I am not asking just to have my head bitten off :tired: Can someone point me to the right legislation please!
Its a bit tortuous to get through the whole lot, but start with the Animla By-products Regulations 2005, part 3 article 9 that states
Restrictions on feeding catering waste and other animal by-products
9.(1) It is an offence to contravene Article 22(1)(b) of the Community Regulation (which prohibits the feeding of farmed animals with catering waste or feed materials containing or derived from catering waste) and it is also an offence to feed such materials to any other ruminant animal, pig or bird.
(2) It is an offence to feed to any ruminant animal, pig or bird any other animal by-product (unless it has been processed in accordance with the Community Regulation) other than
(a)liquid milk or colostrum used on the farm of origin; or
(b)in accordance with Article 23(2) of the Community Regulation as applied by regulation 26(3) of these Regulations.
The community Regulation(s) referred to is EC 1774/2002, which is 95 pages long! Article 23(2) essentially allows meat to be fed to animals such as zoo and circus animals that don't go into the food chain.
Now when you start to get into what is allowed under 9(2), you need to read the whole of the processing annexes of 1774/2002 - to work things like yoghurt out !
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Just a thought.....it would be much simpler to ban the import of meat products....just in the same way New Zealand does with apples. If we stopped importing meat from countries with F&M like S Africa and Argentina there would not be a problem, nor would there be if we were allowed to vaccinate....but of course that would be much too simple :-J
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well its your guys opinion, but ok i agree with the yogurt thing but as the the micro pig i believe that they exist if you get the right one so its fine for your opinion if thats what you want to believe! :pig:
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Sorry,but if you really do believe there is such a thing as a micro pig,then my dear,you are in cloud cuckoo land! :huff:
And those rules made by defra (and some do seem peculiar)are made to be adhered to-not just willy nilly,you must be responsible whilst looking after these animals. :thumbsup:
If defra actually made a surprise visit and found anything contradictory to the rules,something would hit the fan :o ,and there would be an awful lot of trouble I can assure you of that.
It is not not only responsible but you must at all times keep the welfare of your animals on the top of your list.
Hth!
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Very good points WV, but Britain is a free trade country and it would be detrimental to our exports if we were to ban meat imports, also we can not produce enough to maintain a total ban. The government does ban meat and meat products from countries that are riddled with f&m.
On the vaccination, if we were to vaccinate we could not sell animals and have the country foot and mouth free if they are vaccinated against it.
Jennapig- other people have come on here insisting allsorts and refuse to believe what they have been told on here hoping they have some sort of mythical creature that only exists between seller and buyer, and it has resulted in posters leaving and others getting banned when in reality yourself and others refuse to believe that they have been ripped off.
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Very good points WV, but Britain is a free trade country and it would be detrimental to our exports if we were to ban meat imports, also we can not produce enough to maintain a total ban. The government does ban meat and meat products from countries that are riddled with f&m.
On the vaccination, if we were to vaccinate we could not sell animals and have the country foot and mouth free if they are vaccinated against it.
Oh I know the situation, have been farming for over 30 years! Actually F&M is endemic in both Argentina and S Africa :-\ We do produce enough to not import....if we stopped exporting we could stop wasting food in landfills