The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Womble on September 25, 2012, 12:26:39 pm
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Just reading Morri2's thread about livestock markets and luck money......
Can anybody give some general guidance as to how the principle works?
I understand that the seller gives the buyer of livestock a little bit back 'for luck', but how much is customary and under what circumstances?
Cheers!
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just posted on the other thread it is all relevant to the price obtained these high priced bulls and tups could involve hundreds if not thousands of pounds and is not declared to the tax man so you wont get much conformation from either side :farmer:
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Somebody asked me how much luck money would be given back on a gilt i had up for sale, as i thought the sale price was reasonable i'm afraid my reply ended in Off >:( , in big money sales i understand luck money is a big tax dodge, farmers pays thousands of pounds for bull say but gets a new tractor or piece of equipment delivered with bull, not sure how it all works but its dodgy as hell! Might give them a penny for their thoughts but nowt else i am a Yorkshire lass after all. ;D
mandy :pig:
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Is this a northern thing? Never come across it here.....and I have been buying and selling for years??? Or....is it the 'big boys'
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It is a northern thing. In ,most cattle/sheep markets you would expect to get a little luck back from the seller. But it is the seller's perogative to give it or not, it should never be aked for or expected. Incidently it is a the buyer who gets the luck money, but the seller who gets the 'luck' it is a kind of superstition.
For calves it used to be a pound for luck, but for dairy cows maybe five pounds. Inflation has probably altered this though. Some of the cumbrian sheep markets get silly with the luck on a high priced ram which is pre arranged between the trwo parties and definately corrupt!
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Is this a northern thing? Never come across it here.....and I have been buying and selling for years??? Or....is it the 'big boys'
Well it happened at Wilton sheep fair just the other day! Charolais buyer ;)
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Wilton is ooop north to me... :-J
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It has always been something done amongst the horse dealers etc. When we bought our new Cumbria carriage in the spring he gave us some luck money back
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Happens here in Wales too - I've been asked twice for "hope you're gonna give me some luck money". I did to one but not the other . Its still a mystery to me how it came about originally ???
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As a child I witnessed it over and over again when my Dad bought or sold anything. It wasn't much - 2 bob upto say a fiver for a big transaction. Even the traveller who sold tools and work clothes always gave a bit back for luck! I understood it to be just what it says - to wish the purchaser luck with their new animal(s), and its not for the money or tax dodges its an old superstition. A little nicety that unfortunately seems to be dying out.
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I got given £1 with my 10 ewe lambs and for cows in the ring it seems to be up to £5 - It really is a token to tradition here (Ruthin Market, North Wales) and as such I quite liked it. I was very bemused when the seller handed it over and wished me lucj - but it did feel a bit like an old blessing! I think you need all the luck you can get with sheep!
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For the most part it's still a gentle tradition, just a coin or two, maybe a fiver on a big sale.
Yes you do suspect that larger amounts pass across in the headline sales.
Sometimes a seller will leave 'luck' with the mart office, to be passed across when the buyer pays up. More usually the seller will seek out the buyer and pass over the luck in person.
I have several times been chased by buyers clearly wanting their luck money; on store lambs it was usual to give 20p - 50p per lamb, on fat lambs 10p-20p per lamb (usually selling in 10s at the least, some pens will be up to 50 lambs or even more.) It is an opportunity to show your gratitude to the buyer and stick in his/her mind, so that next time they are bidding on your livestock they may decide to go that extra bidding increment and you'll get your luck money back in spades! :D
I was once given a fistful of notes on a small pen of draft ewes; that seller has certainly stuck in my mind! :D
I have given and/or received 'delivery for luck', 'luck potatoes', 'luck hay', 'luck feed', ... it's a nice tradition and I support it - but I do know some farmers who feel pressured by it and won't do it.
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It was the usual thing in SW Ireland when I lived there. As a tradition and superstition it's a fine thing but not when it's abused.
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Here in the west midlands it is usual to give luck money in markets when selling, usually around £1 or 2 for a pen of fat or store lambs, around £5 for a pen of breeding ewes or store cattle, or perhaps up to £10 or £20 for pedigree sheep. It is usual for the vendor to be in the pen whilst being sold and holding the luck money up usually indicates that they are happy with the price reached.
I find that it is well worth the investment of offering luck money and being in the pen showing the animals off to their best.
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It has always been traditional in the sheep "fairs" when you sale a ram you normally give a £1.00 coin - crossing palms with gold - I always believed it was a tradition originally started with the horse trade
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I an elderly gypsy many years ago wanted me to take "luck money" which I refused not understanding. He got quite perturbed and in the end gave me a cast iron doorstop in the shape of a horse which I had admired
I still have it now some 40 or more years later and wouldn't dream of parting with it. :)
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When I was livestock buying(about 10 years ago) it was the done thing to give £1 per beast in the fat ring and £1 per pen of fat lambs.Any farmer who did not give luck would find that there were far fewer bids on their lots. I once purchased a show champion for about £2000 and my luck on that was £100. When you received luck money you had to lift it to your lips and appear to spit on it while the seller was thanking you and wishing you luck with your purchase.
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At the North of England Mule Association sales we attended last year it was certainly more than a few fivers being waved around, and applied to well over half the lots we watched through. At the Bicester sheep fair a month or so back there was the occasional sight of luck money but no more than that.
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I actually felt very intimidated by the chap that I was selling this particular item to and he was dropping LARGE hints about giving back £50!!!!!! The item sold for £1750 and if I hadn't felt so threatened I would have handed back a tenner........possibly :rant: ...as it happened I didn't give him anything :P
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I asked for it at tesco this afternoon, buggers threw me out ..... Again
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I asked for it at tesco this afternoon, buggers threw me out ..... Again
:roflanim: Nice one, Alistair :thumbsup:
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We always give luck money when we sell anything :)
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Thanks for all the replies folks - very illuminating!
We sold our first chooks on Sunday to a friend, but I forgot to give them any luck money. Sadly it looks as though I should have done, since one has already escaped and is running riot around their neighbourhood! ;D
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luck money is very often given around here usually when the bidding gets to a decent price the seller will let it be known they are offering lucky money by holding it up so the money is on view this can be coins or notes its just a tradition.
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It's originally a Viking custom which I suppose explains why it's more prevalent in the north.
It doesn't have to be a lot, it's generally a gesture. Anything from 1% -5%.
When it gets into serious money it's lost the sense of it all.
I have had luck given in kind too, which is also nice. I bought a field and had a load of limestone chippings as luck, and bought some sheep and got a showing halter as luck.
I always give it, I think it's a good thing, apart from anything else it means the buyer and seller make contact. I was very sad at Carlisle to have bought a tup lamb and not to have had the chance to talk to the sellers, tell them I'd take good care of him, tell them about the girls he was winning etc (as the lady was apparently sad to see him go). All of which we'd have done if they'd come to give me luck.
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The man we bought our eight Oxford Downs from at the weekend handed us £20 luck money and we got the same from the man we bought two of our pigs from earlier this year :)
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I was very sad at Carlisle to have bought a tup lamb and not to have had the chance to talk to the sellers, tell them I'd take good care of him, tell them about the girls he was winning etc (as the lady was apparently sad to see him go). All of which we'd have done if they'd come to give me luck.
I think they were too upset, jay :'( He was clearly a great favourite. Plus at that sale it's a madhouse and hard to find your buyers - not like a regular sale where you can ask the auctioneer to point them out for you.
I always go to the pens and see the stock I've bought as soon as I can, which gives the seller an opportunity to share any info and give luck if they want - but I know you had other things you - and your dad - wanted to bid on, so that wasn't so easy for you.
However, I was at the pens and was able to tell them he was going to the very best home he could possibly have been going to (which I meant wholeheartedly, by the way :-*) If they hadn't been so upset (and embarassed about being so) I would have brought them round and pointed you out to them.
How's he doing anyway? Settled in ok?
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Yeh, that sale is mad and it's just luck if you catch your sellers even if you do go out to the pens straight after. In fact, I spoke to them about the colour of his parents while their son was showing him.
He's doing well, settled with the tup lambs nicely and wants hand feeding. Not sure I think that's a great idea with a tup, even one that's only ever going to be knee high to a grasshopper.
I found the lady's address on the pedigree certificate so I've sent her a card with reassurances (and that it was me who spoke to her) and some pics of him with his new friends :)
How are your two little Shetland X's doing?
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I haven't come across this yet but then I have only bought a couple of ducks at a mart.
It sounds to me a bit like the money you are supposed to put in a purse you are giving or selling to someone. Just a coin, as a token of luck.
Sally
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I found the lady's address on the pedigree certificate so I've sent her a card with reassurances (and that it was me who spoke to her) and some pics of him with his new friends :)
That's really kind of you :-*
I agree on the hand-feeding - sweet but kinda scarey... :o especially with a tup lamb. (Now I'm hearing Brucklay's voices! ;))
How are your two little Shetland X's doing?
Absolutely great. They settled right in with the Lanark Four. They're fearless - straight up to screeching pigs (who'd seen me in the distance with a bucket :o), the 6-month old calves, you name it. Except the humans, of course, but that will come. BH thinks they're very nice sheep, a good addition to the flock. But says I have to stop now and concentrate on getting some Icelandics sorted ;)
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Everyone round here gives a bit of luck. The amount we give tends to depend on the selling price.