The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: moprabbit on September 24, 2012, 07:54:36 pm
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Probably a very daft question to ask, but the thing about this forum is it doesn't seem to matter hopefully!? 3 of my sheep always seem to produce 'rabbit like' droppings, yet another always seems to produce large lumps of poo - occasionally a little bit loose. I have seen her produce the 'rabbit like' ones, but more than likely she's the one who produces the big lumps! I just wondered if there was any reason for it. Is it something to do with their digestive system?
They were all wormed at the same time.
Thanks!
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We have a bit of a range - and yes I go actively looking (sad but a good idea I think) out of 25 sheep - 85% rabbit poo, re rest a bit more lumpy and one quite often a bit runny which is driving me crazy!!
They are all happy and healthy, vaccinated etc and look in good condition - sorry feel in good condition so I think it's just them as individuals and re a previous post re runny bum one - quite a few people seem to have one that like that - so although I worry, I try not to worry too much.
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In 2 years not yet had one with runny poo. Most of the time it is rabbit-like but there seem to be periods when I notice a lot of larger but still firm droppings. They are much larger - more dog-like maybe- normal colour.
Is it to do with nutritional content of the grass or if they are doing a lot of browsing of hedges etc. ? ???
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Sheep are individuals , with different constitutions , tolerance to worms,and ability to utilise foods :thumbsup:
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I wonder if it's something to do with different breeds as well? My Shetland and Heb cross do marbles and the GFDs do logs. Brucklay, I have a lamb who has had a runny bum since I got him July. Been vaccinated and treated for every parasite known to sheep, not on lush grass etc. etc. yet rarely produces anything solid. However he's bright and bonny, is growing well and feels in good condition.
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Just a bit of an update on Borage, aka Mucky Bum, the GFD wether who's been loose since I got him in July. Yet another FEC sample to the vet coming back clear (he had the runs accompanied by mucus - yuck) - she now thinks he just has a sensitive gut and will always be runny. Hmmm- all very well in winter but a problem when we're back to flystrike weather. No more coarse mix (or any other concentrates) for him I think, just hay to supplement forage. Any other thoughts? Perhaps a bit of Readybrek made with water?
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Working with sheep poo I can certainly say you get different types, I've always assumed it is to do with diet and, as Shep said, sheep being individuals with different constitutions. I must say the majority of poop I see is what I would call 'soft partially pelleted'.
Dans
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Oooooo Dans, are you a poo expert? ;D What exactly do you do?
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PhD student at the moment, working on liver fluke. Working on some molecular diagnostics at the moment but have done my fair share of fluke FEC in the last 2 years and the faecal samples still keep coming. Last count was 2940 faecal samples passed through my hands in 2 years, I live the glamorous life :eyelashes:
Dans
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Blimey .... we know who to ask about that then.
That's a lot of poo and I thought I saw my fair share of it :roflanim:
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If you had a cow had a runny bum no matter what you did with her you'd test for Johnnes disease. Is there a sheep equivalent?
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I was always told, by shepherds I have to say, not vets, :) that each pellet in sheep droppings is the result of a single cud.
ie Bring up/chew/swallow. One pellet, one mouthful.
So some sheep don't rest enough and chew the cud properly, an important part of the day in sheepland. Perhaps stressed or flighty or generally off colour, or on a new feed?
I am always studying their droppings as I walk about, it tells you so much about feeding and worming requirements.
Important part of the job.
Snigger-ye-not!
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When my sheep's poohs turn too soft, I increase the level of hay in their feed.
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............Can I pose a question to Dans regarding worm counts on sheep.
Our local animal supplies` merchant does kits for collecting poo for worm counts,I have never had one done before and thought it to be a good thing to do.
When I was in the store yesterday I asked how good the test was for lung worms and fluke in the sheep ,the lady said "stomach worms were a lot easier to detect." :-\ :thinking:
Can you shed a little light on this -does what she said mean fluke and lungworms may not be detected even if they are present in the animal?
--and and by the way I hope you are feeling a little better .
Many thanks :wave: Tilly
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Thanks for asking that, Tilly - I had also wondered but not got around to asking the question. Our vet doesn't rate FECs at all, saying it's too easy to get false negatives, so we have no experience of using them.
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If you had a cow had a runny bum no matter what you did with her you'd test for Johnnes disease. Is there a sheep equivalent?
I have wondered about this too, but not yet asked my vet.... I have a couple of ewes, a bit older but not old, that I am struggling to get weight on this year. I have actually not mated them because of their skinniness, but didn't want to get rid of them just yet. So one thing I am wondering about is Johnes.... but haven't noticed runny bums on them at all...
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When I was in the store yesterday I asked how good the test was for lung worms and fluke in the sheep ,the lady said "stomach worms were a lot easier to detect." :-\ :thinking:
Can you shed a little light on this -does what she said mean fluke and lungworms may not be detected even if they are present in the animal?
:excited: yay something I can help with. Ok here goes.
gut worms (GINs) can be detected using flotation methods. Quite easy to do, and fairly representitive as the eggs are laid in the gut and pass right out.
Fluke are a whole different kettle of fish. Their eggs don't float very well in the standard solution, and can collapse in on themselves because of the salt even if they do float, which makes them hard to identify. General practice is to perform a sedimentation rather than floation when looking for fluke eggs, as far as I understand this isn't done as commonly and so not everyone is set up and experienced with it.
Not only do you need to perform a different test for looking at fluke eggs but the biology of them makes egg count less straight forward than with GINs. Eggs are released from fluke in the bile ducts and pass through to the gall bladder. They can sit there for about 3 weeks before being passed out with faeces, and they don't always come out in a constant flow. This means that the distribution of eggs in the faeces can vary from day to day and from gram viewed to gram viewed. (I always view 3g of faeces to give an eggs per gram back to the farmer, better chance of catching them). To make matters worse the fluke themselves don't lay at a constant rate and so the eggs are entering the gall bladder sporardically and leaving sproradically. The fact that eggs can stay in the gall bladder for up to 3 weeks means that sometimes when you kill fluke with a successful treatment you can get eggs coming through after they have died. Which is why if you're going to look at a post treatment sample you really need to look at a pre treatment sample too so you can compare the two (there should be less eggs in the post treatment).
In all FEC isn't great for looking at fluke, but short of shooting the animal and looking at it's liver it is the best we have at the moment. That's where my PhD comes in, seeing if we can improve the situation. What you can tell from a FEC:
1) you haven't treated your animals and you have fluke eggs = you have fluke
2) you haven't treated your animals and you don't have fluke eggs = you might have fluke (too young to detect or very low numbers)
3) you have treated your animals and there are eggs but you didn't do a FEC pre treatment = you might still have fluke
4) you have treated your animals, did a pre and post Tx FEC and there are no eggs (or you've had a large reduction in eggs) = you probably don't have fluke
5) you have treated your animals, did a pre and post Tx FEC and there are similar or greater numbers of eggs = your treatment didn't work (does not mean resistanance!)
There is a test about now that shows promise for detecting live and dead fluke, and to be better able to detect small numbers of fluke, but we are still validating it. I don't know of anyone offering it commercially yet.
Lungworm I don't know as much about but I do know they need to be cultured, so again a different test to the standard GIN floation FEC. I would assume that is why they mentioned them to you too.
:relief: Hope that helps people!
Dans
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Thanks! Very helpful! Anke.
If you ever need more samples :-J .... mine graze right next to the river...
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If you had a cow had a runny bum no matter what you did with her you'd test for Johnnes disease. Is there a sheep equivalent?
I have wondered about this too, but not yet asked my vet.... I have a couple of ewes, a bit older but not old, that I am struggling to get weight on this year. I have actually not mated them because of their skinniness, but didn't want to get rid of them just yet. So one thing I am wondering about is Johnes.... but haven't noticed runny bums on them at all...
All ruminants can get JOHNE'S and pass it between specie's , the symptoms are fairly standard the animal eats as normal but slowly loose's condition, cattle have watery diarrhoea with bubbles, sheep may be only a little looser than normal . There is a test for it, very infectious and no cure , but you can vaccinate to give protection.