The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: FiB on September 24, 2012, 09:35:33 am
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Well. black and blue and aching all over from this weekends MOT ing session with my 14 shearlings! We built a hurdle pen the other side of a gate at the bottom of the current field (I'd initially built it at the top - been feeding them in it all week, no problem - came to shut them in on Sat - NOT A CHANCE!!!! They can smell 'treatment') and got them all into it a dream - but then it proved to be too big as catching them was an olympic event (watch out on youve been framed!) - and I had tied the hurdles with baler twine to make sure it didnt fall apart - so couldnt make it smaller!
So I am now very motivated to build me dream handling sys and would love to see any pictures you may have of yours/lessons learned :eyelashes: :eyelashes: [size=78%]. [/size] I have the Tim Tyne book - but just wish I could see more pictures to help me decide (shape, place, materials...).
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Sorry, can't help FiB but will follow this thread with interest.
We used to lure our ewes into the enclosed chicken run. Worked a treat and found them fairly easy to catch as not too big an area. With the arrival of the lambies it wasn't so easy - always one or two reluctant to go into the space - think because of the small size and ewes butting them away from the trough. ::) Invested in some hurdles and now have an area as semi-permanent pen and feed them in there on a regular basis. The area is quite large - otherwise they won't venture in - but as you say catching the tinkers is then quite tricky. Takes hubbie, myself and daughter to do it with an element of composure. Once in, we have to decreases the size of the pen by moving in the hurdles. Cannot make the pen as small as we would like because the sheepies are by now well aware of our plans and looking to escape. Once they are out, that is it, no chance of recapture. One lambie managed to dash under the hurdle being moved last week so missed his fluke/worm drench :'( . Still have to use the crook to catch some of them in the pen and they seem to be able to twist and escape this if one of us can't get there quickly to grab hold of them and those horns are a bit hazardous!!!
Think being able to reduce the pen size once they are in maybe the answer but not sure how to do it without escapees. ???
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Funnel. Ideally funnel with interim gates. (Properly called a forcing pen, I think.) Or if you can think how to do a temporary one, a circle pen, with two radial gates so you can squish 'em up once they're in.
If you have a shorter width, not square, you give yourself a better chance of catching them.
Plus, I have two pieces of advice.
1. The most important ingredient in catching them is self belief. YOU must believe you ARE going to catch them. Not eventually but right now, this time.
2. The most important ingredient in catching them is self belief. THEY must believe you ARE going to catch them. Not eventually but every time.
;)
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Enjoyed Sally's post. Yep I to would add a short corridor/exit from this corral you have got, just one sheep wide with gates/spare hurdle. When they find that you have mysteriously tropped them in their feeding corral they will go for the only exit....this new corridor the you have just opened....Freedom!!!
Thats where you grab, do what has to be done and let them go on their way. Out back to the field or into another holding area (Just incase one is faster than you )
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;D ;D Glad to hear I am not the only one in the hills! And agree there was some lacking psychology over the weekend Sally!!!! All part of the learning!
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Sally was a sheepdog in a previous life :D .
When a local shepherd came to shear our gang this year it needed 4 adults, 5 kids and 2 sheepdogs to catch them all (jumpy primitives). On realising how jumpy they were, he immediately set up a funnel system as Sally describes, using metal sheets and pallets and that made it worked a treat. We're going to build a new sheep shed next year and make a permanent funnel, makes life a lot easier, especially when you get to an age you can't face the olympic challenge!
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Sally was a sheepdog in a previous life :D .
:roflanim: Love it. :roflanim:
Actually I was a dog in this life until I was 9. ;)
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We inherited ours with the smallholding. It's in a permanent place so it's not always easy to get them into it, but once they're in we have no problems.
Here's my interpretation lol
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l51/gemmah115/race_zps25929c1a.png)
It works for us, because you can push the ones that you have caught up a pen and still leave the gate open while you get the rest in, if half of them bolt before you can shut them in, without having to lose the lot and start again. It also works well if you need to sort them at all. We struggle for a while before we bought the turnover crate, it's been some of the best money spent!
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Hi I have an area similar to greenmoor in that its a large pen that i can then divide up, I like this as I can alter the holding arrangement on my own meaning that catching them is easy and I can hold a ewe and a lamb or a couple of ewes in there for a day or two if needed; Mine is situated between two paddocks with gates at either end. variously the sheep are fed from one paddock or the other so that they don't see it as a dead end and whilst i can't force them in ( no dog) i can lure them in very easily . Mine is permanent with my standard fencing and internally I have moveable fencel panels that fit posts cemented in for the purpose at various points according to how i want to divide interally.
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I like the thinking behind your location kanisha. Ours is in a corner of a field next to a building and the air often turns blue trying to get them in :rant: :roflanim:
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Yup, our shepherd told us to build these runs and houses in a corner of a field or up against a wall so they can't run you round in circles :relief:
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As we have about 7 fields of variious sizes and not all next to each other (across the road etc) we need a flexible system... so we just use hurdles and get the sheep into a big pen (always in the corner of the field and as much as possible on the top corner, as ours don't like running down hill, always have the open gate bit on the fence side as they run along the fence line especially the tricky ones. Once a few are in, these are pushed into smaller internal pen, and then open big pen again. Sometimes we need to wait a few minutes until the dopey ones work out where the entrance to their mates is... but it works. Then inside set up a few smaller pens, depending on what you need to do and how you need to divide them up. Also got two girls who think they are sheep dogs... my sheep are also not jumpers fortunately.
We have found that with a dozen 6ft hurdles we can pretty much do anything that needs doing. Also we load the sheep into the trailer using the tractor, so don't depend on having them collected right next to the field gate. (we don't have 4 x4 car).
If you have your sheep in several fields most of the time, just get a dozen hurdles and move them in the trailer from field to field. Oh and we leave ours always out of view or right next to the house... hurdles do seem to walk off farms quite regularly...
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Brilliant Greenmoor - a picture ..... now I get it. :thumbsup:
Can see how this would work for us. Hubbies next project :excited:
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The pen you drive them into should be running uphill if possible, as sheep when driven prefer to run uphill.
The race (allyway) should be about 16ft long and 18inches wide with a gate at both ends.
The gate farthest away should be able to open two ways.
1. into another pen.
2 Back out into the field.
The allyway is filled with sheep and both gates closed.
You walk along outside the race and drench (worm) or whatever.
If your looking to foot treat run a few into a smaller pen at the end of the race.
Hang a bucket on the fence with all you need to treat the sheep.
And to make life simple :thumbsup: buy a sheepdog
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I agreed with all of that CF, :thumbsup:, except your last statement.
And to make life simple :thumbsup: buy a sheepdog
Most farmers and smallholders I know who have a collie dog say, "I haven't got enough work for him/her, really," - and a bored collie is not a good thing...
So it's not something I would recommend anyone to rush into if they've just a few sheep need gathering every now and again.
Better to make friends with one of those farmers / smallholders nearby who have a collie dog and say, "I haven't got enough work for him/her, really," - and give them a bit of extra work to do every now and again! ;) :D
And anyone within 25 miles of this farmer - who has two collie dogs and says, "I haven't got enough work for them, really," - she's always willing to work her dogs, just shout! ;D
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We're just in the process of building our own permanent sheep handling system. Mainly using old fence rails & corregated sheets we had kicking about.
It is sandwiched between the steel building & a wall, so reasonably sheltered & has gates leading into the first holding pen from both a field & the yard so that we can funnel them in & also reverse the trailer up for loading. It also has 2 further holding pens, running either side of the race & turnover crate, with a shedding gate on the end so that we can separate easily. Leading into the race is a quarter circle hurdle setup (the only additional thing we needed to buy), with a 6 foot gate that swings inside the curve so that we can force them into the race easily.
Still got some finishing to do as some of it is held together with string, but we used it for the first time at the weekend with some new ewes straight off the mountain & it worked a treat - would never have managed without!
We are going to start feeding in the first holding pen so that they get used to going in there twice a day for nice things.
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That sounds great NIcky - any chance of a piccy or 2? I will be trying to use a lot of what we have around - so very interested to hear the bits that you needed to buy. Did you buy one of those sorting gate at the end of the race (into the sheding pen)? Cheers, Fi
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We use a funnel system too. I have several fields I use about the villages, we make a collecting pen that appears to be the escape route, then use length of poultry electruc fencing stretched tight as a funnel. push them towards it and they think its the way out.....silly things then run straight into penand we close off end of funnel.....works every time as they have memory of an ant at times.... :excited:
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We are very fortunate in the fact our main barn is very close to the house. Our first job when we first moved here was to put water and electric to the barn. I am a firm believer that sheep should as far as possible be a pleasure to treat and handle NOT a chore that one puts off until tomorrow !! We keep around 45 breeding Ewes on four seperate paddocks and also a seperate area for the Tups as with most other people when im treating the sheep on a field with no barn i run a temp fence along the permanent fence funneling to a holding area and finally into a working area. The main barn consists as follows:- Hurdled catchment area funneled into the main race system consisting of Guillotine gate into trap area for oral treatment and injections, turnover crate, weigh crate, drafting gateleft through footbath right either to holding area or out into field. I have made lots of two way gates that fit amongst the hurdles as i hate climbing over. I realise there is a lot of money that for most of the time just sits but like i said i find it pleasurable to treat the sheep.
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A few more
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I hope you can get some ideas from our set up. Probably one thing i would keep making are gates. It just makes life so much easier. :wave:
PS I do have a sheep dog :thumbsup:
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Nice set up! I too believe sheep should be a pleasure rather than a chore and its one thing to be able to grab a sheep when you are 25 and another when over 50! joints and muscles do not recover quite the same so as I am getting older I am sorting out more and more easy handling sheep and equipment which means that when I'm 75 I should theoretically have had lots of use out of it and still be able to manage the sheep!
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Oh yes Pasture, that is helpful, thank you.
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WOW - Brilliant thank you for sharing! Yes its the day after the day after and I am aching ALL over (and that's only wrestling 12 - hoping to go up to 20-25 over the next couple of years) and the joints arnt getting any younger!
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Val my thoughts exactly, everything i look at buying or changing i do so with one eye on the longterm.
Last January i broke both bones in my left arm and it was crushed badly i am lucky enough to have my wife and two sons to help me, Ive just had another operation on my arm and back in plaster. The sheep set up has helped my no end.
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Couldn't agree more :thumbsup:, treating / handling livestock needs to be a pleasure and easy to do, so not put off.
We're in our 50s so have been gradually upgrading facilities and equipment with exactly this in mind. We've also ditched the Limousin cattle, the Blackface ewes, ... ;) and now mostly have laid back, co-operative Angus, Hereford and Jersey cattle and a preponderance of Swaley Mules and their descendents, and Charollais crosses - although there are still plenty of hard-headed, obstinate Texels to give us a good workout ;) :D
I love my little primitives - small enough that I can do anything I want with them on my own, so that thing about having total confidence that I will catch them and hang onto them can be 100% true. :D
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I have grazings all over the place, and so any handling system I have needs to be mobile.
Until a month ago, I had 14 hurdles, all 6' in length and some flexinet - I have managed to get 50 ewes and lambs (94 lambs - so 144 animals in total) into this for weaning. If I could make an improvement, it would have been an additional couple of 4' hurdles.
I haven't got a picture, but I'll describe it thus:
Set it up along a fence, so the sheep go in uphill if possible. The far end should be one hurdle wide, withthe next hurdle runing parallel to the fence. If I had 4' hurdles, I would use one here.
Then arrange in a funnel, making sire they dip in towards the fence 2 or so hurdles from the end, then set the last two almost parallell to the fence. run your flexinet out from this to make a huge funnel. Save two hurdles and attach to a fencepost opposite where your hurdle funnel ends, running almost alongside the fence.
Drive the sheep into the funnel until they have gone past the outer hurdles, then dash in and grab the outermost one, tug the lot round like a gate and attach to the two hurdles you attached to the fencepost - your colleague/dogsbody should be pulling these in as you pull yours along.
Your sheep should now be in.
then, by detaching hurdles and sliding them along the backs of the others, make your pen small....
Use the 1 x 1 'far end' as a handling pen, attach some of yoru spare hurdles a bit back from the handling pen and use them to force the sheep...
This would make farm more sense with pictures...I'll try to take some... ;D
I have now expanded and have a Rappa trailer mounted aluminium one, but only because I'll have 200 ewes (plus lambs eventually) on one bit of ground in future. I use it for the first time tomorrow...woohoo....
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That sounds great NIcky - any chance of a piccy or 2? I will be trying to use a lot of what we have around - so very interested to hear the bits that you needed to buy. Did you buy one of those sorting gate at the end of the race (into the sheding pen)? Cheers, Fi
Fi
I'll try & get some photos taken, but not today as still hammering it down here & has been since Sunday early evening.
We already had a race (could be made from sheeting & posts), turnover crate (luxury item as OH has a weak back) & shedding gate (very handy, but could probably be made if you are good at DIY). I think we have ended up getting 2 curved hurdles plus a 3 foot gate inside a frame, plus a few hinges & fixings.
We have made use of lots of 'stuff' we already had like rails, sheeting, posts, gates & wooden hurdles OH made several years ago for the lambing shed, but which rarely get used as we lamb outside!
PS just noticed on another thread that you are in North Wales, as are we. You are very welcome to pop over & have a look in person if you fancy a trip out.
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As we have about 7 fields of variious sizes and not all next to each other (across the road etc) we need a flexible system... so we just use hurdles and get the sheep into a big pen (always in the corner of the field and as much as possible on the top corner, as ours don't like running down hill, always have the open gate bit on the fence side as they run along the fence line especially the tricky ones. Once a few are in, these are pushed into smaller internal pen, and then open big pen again. Sometimes we need to wait a few minutes until the dopey ones work out where the entrance to their mates is... but it works. Then inside set up a few smaller pens, depending on what you need to do and how you need to divide them up. Also got two girls who think they are sheep dogs... my sheep are also not jumpers fortunately.
We have found that with a dozen 6ft hurdles we can pretty much do anything that needs doing. Also we load the sheep into the trailer using the tractor, so don't depend on having them collected right next to the field gate. (we don't have 4 x4 car).
If you have your sheep in several fields most of the time, just get a dozen hurdles and move them in the trailer from field to field. Oh and we leave ours always out of view or right next to the house... hurdles do seem to walk off farms quite regularly...
Same problem and same solution :sheep:
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try this website i found it most usefull http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/livestock/sheep/facts/02-059.htm (http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/livestock/sheep/facts/02-059.htm) and http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/livestock/sheep/facts/02-057.htm (http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/livestock/sheep/facts/02-057.htm) some good diagrams and interesting facts
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Those are great resources, j & g :thumbsup:
Fig 3 is exactly - and I mean exactly - the setup we had on the moorland farm - and I couldn't better it. We handled all 530 ewes through that setup many many times. Once the dogs were used to it you could manage it on your own, too, although of course it was always helpful to have another human to help.
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Brilliant - now I just need to superimpose these ideas onto the space I have earmarked - particularly useful J and G were the diagrams of unsuccessful forcing pen shapes (I was going for one of them!!!). Many thanks, F. I will take pics when finished (dont hold your breath - this may take a few months!)