The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: nelson on September 22, 2012, 03:22:01 pm
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What is the 'expected level' of hernias that one would normally see in a litter from a pedigree herd.
I always believed that it came from the boar but talking to some breeders at a recent show in the UK - they say it can be from sow or boar.
Would appreciate other breeders experiences. Thanks
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We had quite a few incidences of scrotial hernia's in the Kunekunes (but they are more prone to it than most breeds I believe due to a weakness in the inguinal canal) In my case I would say it was the boar who passed it on, because recent litters with a different boar have had none. I did do a bit of research into the numbers/patterns with other Kunekune breeders, but everyone had different experiences, and there wasn't a pattern that stood out :-\ :thinking:
I've not had any with my 'big' pigs, but have only seen 47 'big pig' piglets born so far.
Does that help at all ?
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never had it in breeding pedigree pigs and only onehernia in a castrated boar (cross breed) and that cured itself as the pig grew
if you goggle hernias in pigs this will give you a better indication although hygiene and care of the piglet after birth has a greater bearing in it :farmer:
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You can also encourage hernias if you pick a piglet up incorrectly, many people pick up and carry by the legs but recent research has shown that this can cause hernias. We always grabbed by the back leg then scoop up and hold that way. Piglet yells but that is part of the course.
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Just for clarification - are we talking scrotal or umbilical hernias here ???
:love: :pig: :love:
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sorry I am talking umbilical
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sorry I am talking umbilical
No need to apologise Linda ;) - just finding the thread starting a wee bit ambiguous :innocent:
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Oh sorry - I don't write very well and tried not to be ambiguous.
Beewyched - it is scrotal - it looks like fluid and is on the left testicle. Our vet will deal with it but I am trying to detect why it is happening and from what sow or boar.
Twice this year same sow (served by a different boar) in her litter 2 piglets that have an enlarged testicle - looks like fluid. Not noticable at birth - until about 3-4 weeks.
HH yes thanks useful info - I am trying to see if there is a pattern too. I am pointing the finger at the sow and so want to be wrong ... could be the boar (s) I am going to AI her next and see what happens.
thanks everyone for the input - I posted this to see if other breeders experienced hernias with their pigs - I knew about the KKs but these are in my Berkshire herd although not many over the period of 4 years - but -may be there should be none - hence the question? what is the expected level and what breeders do when this happens. Thanks again.
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Hi Nelson :wave:
Thanks for the clarification, as both Karen & Linda had answered your question, depending on which type you were asking about :thumbsup:
TBH I think all breeds experience scrotal hernias to some degree, they are just noticed more in KKs because
a) 99% of male piglets are castrated, as KKs are often kept as "outdoor pets" or companion pigs
and
b) KKs are usually castrated by a vet (because of the hernia possibility), so the vet will offer to repair it - adding to the cost of the castration by many vets ::)
KKs, though small, start maturing sexually very young (from about 5 months), so even if they are being reared for meat, they are often castrated to prevent unwanted pregnancies or "boar taint". Whereas the "big pig" breeds are rarely castrated, as they are ready "for the chop" a lot younger.
Any boar piglet that I looking at keeping entire (only 1 in the last 2 years) gets checked by my vets at 3 weeks & 5 weeks of age for scrotal hernias, as they can be very slight. I personally do not ask my vet for a repair in any piglet going to a new long-term home, they get kept-back for meat, as a repair is not guaranteed.
Certainly scotal hernias can be passed down either the sow or the boar sides, & with KKs there is such a small gene pool in the UK they more likely to occur - though I guess this could relate to any low-numbers breed.
:love: :pig: :love:
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don't agree with Lynne on the small gene pool yes if a breeder cant be bothered to travel to get a different line but even if there are two boars with the same male breed line they can be totally unrelated through the sow line
i think nelson has answered his own question which brings the breeding of pigs into the same question as the breeding of dogs with known problems not all piglets should or could make it perpetuate there breed and comes down to the breeder to be more ruthless in the selection of the future breeding stock
we castrate nearly all the males and it is only a lucky one or two that get left intact
the cattle world only use pedigree sires for service and only the very best at that the meat trade buy the cheaper ones or the ones that don't quite have that edge for breeding :farmer:
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Twice this year same sow (served by a different boar) in her litter 2 piglets that have an enlarged testicle - looks like fluid. Not noticable at birth - until about 3-4 weeks.
What we had with one of ours (KK) was what looked like a hernia, similar story to yours, we were rearing him for meat (unrepaired) when some folks came looking for pet pigs, they liked the look of Lumpy too :innocent: so he went along with them. They decided not to eat him and took him to their vet for a hernia repair job ;)
It turned out it wasn't a hernia after all, but that one testicle hadn't developed properly and there was excess fluid in the area........ was it definately a hernia in yours ?
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Hi HH - interesting
We intend to take him down to the vet Monday and will see then - will let you know. Thanks again for input.
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don't agree with Lynne on the small gene pool yes if a breeder cant be bothered to travel to get a different line but even if there are two boars with the same male breed line they can be totally unrelated through the sow line
i think nelson has answered his own question which brings the breeding of pigs into the same question as the breeding of dogs with known problems not all piglets should or could make it perpetuate there breed and comes down to the breeder to be more ruthless in the selection of the future breeding stock
we castrate nearly all the males and it is only a lucky one or two that get left intact
the cattle world only use pedigree sires for service and only the very best at that the meat trade buy the cheaper ones or the ones that don't quite have that edge for breeding :farmer:
Ok Robert, we'll agree to differ on this one, but ...
ALL KKs in the UK are descendants of the 16 that were originally imported by the BKKPS & some of these 16 were related too -
1992 - Te Whangi (Boar), Rebecca Gina (Gilt) & her litter-brother Tutaki, Awakino (G), Kereopa (G).
1993 - Tammerdale (G), Ru (B) & 2 Awakino litter-sisters (G) (this litter had the same Dam as the Awakino Gilt imported in 1992)
1996 - Andrew (Boar) & his 2 litter-sisters Sally, 2 Trish litter-sisters & 2 Jenny litter-sisters
So IMHO that is a small gene pool. I agree that any responsible breeder should be prepared to travel for quality stock - I nearly drove my OH crazy with the mileage I got through sourcing mine, but I now have 2 boar-lines & 3 sow-lines, which I can cross-over for a couple of years, plus Karen has another Boar-line too :thumbsup:
Then I'll be on the road again :eyelashes:
:love: :pig: :love:
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they cant have eaten very many of the offspring from that first import off 16 in just 22 years to get the vast number of kunnies that are going about or is there great number due to outcrossing and passed off as pure there are two distinct sizes of kunnies as i saw at hatfield last year and the litter size has increased dramatically since i breed them Karen's boar line should trace back to the ones we owned
i could be wrong but i think the Hampshire's has a smaller gene pool than the kunnies and the breeders are getting less as the economics of pigs strikes home Mr pig may come in and impart his knowledge on this :farmer:
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Karen's boar line should trace back to the ones we owned
What was your prefix with the Kunekunes ?
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IME Robert, that is probably the case - even nowadays some folk find the idea of eating KKs abhorrent ::)
I agree with you that there has been a certain amount of "out-crossing" & not notifying litters over the years in response to the bl**dy "micro-pig" craze :furious: But this now seems to be finally dwindling - hence there being so many "free to a good home" recently.
Hopefully, we are now moving to a new phase - where all breeders of KKs act as responsibly as other Rare & Minority Pig Keepers - birth notifying all litters & only breed registering piglets that meet the Breed Standards & the rest go as "outdoor pets"/companion pigs or pork :fc: With the ever increasing costs of feed, I have noticed a change of "customers" over the past year - I very rarely get enquiries for "mic**-pigs" now ( :excited: ) & whereas I used to have 3 regulars for meat weaners, I now have 8 & orders from the next litters :thumbsup:
I will try & do some more research on litters & sizes - I think the increase may be due to the change in breeders' husbandary - though I could be completely wrong. All registered KKs should be traceable back to the 16 original imports, so I could do a genealogy trace for you - I wouldn't mind betting part of my herd is related to ones you owned either :eyelashes:
:love: :pig: :love:
Just noticed you here Karen :wave:
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:wave: :wave: :wave: See you soon mrs :excited: :excited: :excited:
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:wave: :wave: :wave: See you soon mrs :excited: :excited: :excited:
:excited: :excited: :excited: :excited: :excited: :excited: :excited: :excited: :excited: :excited: :excited: :excited: :excited: :excited: :excited: :excited: :excited: :excited: :excited: :excited: :excited:
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Lynne that lottery win you will get before the kunnie society act responsibly
when we were members and paid up as well they were wanting to fix the price of weaners and even got as far as the agm to set it in stone obviously some money grabber was not happy that somebody was selling kunnies for half of what they were charging anyway the monopolies and mergers committee got wind of it and stopped them make a point of talking to Wendy i have and very interesting as well but do it face to face
Karen our kunnies came from Neil cross we then sold them on to oban rare breeds who then sold them to lee bastow who sold them to you dates and numbers escape me just now the movement book for that time was lost then found and now lost once more and i think Allison stephen had some of the descendants as well if i have been informed correctly :farmer:
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So, if we're looking at that side Robert, I reckon that your Herd Affix would have been Ubarrow, Elthorns, Lazyape or Gibston?
:love: :pig: :love:
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none of them we bought them in DEC 03 974 was a year and a half old 839was two and a half years old 287was6 years old they came with 5 piglets that we never registered they were sold in Jan 05 to oban rare breeds with there paperwork hope this helps you with your research :farmer:
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none of them we bought them in DEC 03 974 was a year and a half old 839was two and a half years old 287was6 years old they came with 5 piglets that we never registered they were sold in Jan 05 to oban rare breeds with there paperwork hope this helps you with your research :farmer:
we then purchased 974 (george) october 07, lovely boy but never produced any piglets!!!!
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George was Tarras Tutaki i
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974 was a female at least on my movement book 287 was goerge 839 was mildred and 974 was matilda :farmer:
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hmmmmm! just checked the numbers on the KKPS website and all are female! I havnt the original registration card for George but that was the number ive got down in my movement book for George, he was put to sleep Jan 2011.
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287 was male that makes him 13 years old if it was the original george neil cross was one of the original KK breeders he is dead so no action from the grave on this one :farmer:
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My boar was Te Whangi 3194, none of your pigs' numbers feature on his pedigree Robert and my wee sow is 3195 - again no trace of 287, 839 or 974.
Here's what I found from digging in the herd book,
Pig 287 (Summerhayes Awakino 3) definately female ;D has had 2 pigs registered from her Palomar Awakino 1(816) and Palomar Tutaki (966)
839 is a Travanion Rebecca Gina - she's not had any offspring registered.
974 is Montgomery Awakino who did go on to register two gilts.
Did you register any piglets with the BKKPS ? Would the herd name have been Blackfaulds?
I think one of the females at Oban rare breeds was bought by Lee and did come here along with Sydney and Adelaide (the ones above). She was barren though and we never managed to get her in pig :(. She was happily living here, keeping the boar company til we had a phonecall from someone desperate for a pig to keep her VPB pig company - she came to look at piglets and fell in love with stroppy Victoria ;D so she's still going strong, ruling the roost in a livery yard just outside Cumbernauld :thumbsup:
Don't know what happened to the other ones though ???
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That sounds right, think Lee had Mildred.
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now this is intriguing either the herdbook is wrong or Neil cross was at it that is the numbers that we have interesting that the registrations are up over the 3000 so not a small gene pool after all the cards were given to oban rare breeds so all i have is the entries in the movement book coming here and the paper copy of going to oban this would have been taken from the tags in the ears
Tarra's was Neils herd name blackfaulds would have been ours without the cards we are in the dark but the cards were checked of against the ear tags :farmer:
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:idea: that's the problem - the BKKPS eartag number is in the KKs ear
The BKKPS Herd number is another number - which is used to trace ancestory/progeny
Both numbers are on the Registration card - I think that's what causes the confusion Robert - as you'll have put the eartag number on the movement, not the Herd Book number :eyelashes:
Yes, I know KK Herd Book numbers have gone over the 6,000 mark now - as my latest Registration (ready for Forfar ;) ) is 6367 - but they do all originate from the initial 16, just various combinations of them & their progeny :thumbsup:
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no confusion on my part Lynne
and that is my point Lynne you start with a small number but all these 6000 pigs should or could be traced back to the original imports and as i said you could have the same boar or sow name but totally unrelated
the bkks issue the eartags when you register them is that right
the eartag identifies that individual pig you don't write the herd book insertion number in the movement book or paperwork and both numbers should be on the registration card/papers :farmer:
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the bkks issue the eartags when you register them is that right
the eartag identifies that individual pig you don't write the herd book insertion number in the movement book or paperwork and both numbers should be on the registration card/papers :farmer:
:thumbsup: ;)
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no confusion on my part Lynne
and that is my point Lynne you start with a small number but all these 6000 pigs should or could be traced back to the original imports and as i said you could have the same boar or sow name but totally unrelated
... :farmer:
Yep - every registered KK in the UK (& I believe Eire & other EU countries) SHOULD be able to be traced back to these original 16.
For example Portia ( my Rebecca Gina sow Herd Book No: 4759) can be traced back to Willowbank Rebecca Gina (Herd Book No: 3) the original imported Rebecca Gina, SoS (my Te Whangi Boar Herd Book No: 5251) can be traced back to Willowbank Te Whangi (HB No: 1) - there may be a 7 generation gap since 1992, but looking at it carefully it is possible to see that there are many common in-crosses too.
I will be the first to admit that I know nowt about other pig breeds & I'm guessing with the rare British breeds it's not just lines, but numbers that are low.
:love: :pig: :love:
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since i cant get on the kk website to trace the ancestry but it does seem odd that Allison ended up with a Tarra's bred boar from Neil cross with the same pet name as we gave him and blow me the very same number that a female pig had that we also owned :farmer: which dates it at 13 years old at slaughter and if it is a kunnie issued tag it should relate to that pig either with the tag number or the herd book insertion number so either way it should trace back to the same pig :farmer:
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Yep - I admit I find it just a wee bit confusing - I don't understand why the BKKPS tag doesn't match-up with the Herd Book No.
But, to get back to that sow Robert - HIGHLY coincidental, but it could be :innocent:
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Yep - I admit I find it just a wee bit confusing - I don't understand why the BKKPS tag doesn't match-up with the Herd Book No.
But, to get back to that sow Robert - HIGHLY coincidental, but it could be :innocent:
I think it's because all Kunekunes are registered in the herd book, but only the breeding pigs are issued numbers for ear tags.
What sow are we talking about ? I'm confused !
Anyway, I went and dug out all the pedigree's I have ::) ;) - the only one that shows a 'Tarras' line is Harriett, infact the only one with any Tutaki in the lines is Harriett.
Does that help clarify anything ?
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Yep - I admit I find it just a wee bit confusing - I don't understand why the BKKPS tag doesn't match-up with the Herd Book No.
But, to get back to that sow Robert - HIGHLY coincidental, but it could be :innocent:
I think it's because all Kunekunes are registered in the herd book, but only the breeding pigs are issued numbers for ear tags.
What sow are we talking about ? I'm confused !
Anyway, I went and dug out all the pedigree's I have ::) ;) - the only one that shows a 'Tarras' line is Harriett, infact the only one with any Tutaki in the lines is Harriett.
Does that help clarify anything ?
Haha - that makes sense Karen :notworthy:
I think it's Mildred or 287 - not sure :eyelashes:
"Tarras Tutaki I" is in Tommy's ancestory & in Joyce's (obviously, she's Harriet's niece ;) ) so Joyce's litter to Badger (Tommy's son) will have it in both, just way, way back. The" Pioneer" KKs were the foundations of each line :love: :pig: :love:
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the whole pig id thing is or can be confusing no tag or individual number up to a certain age
pedigree pigs have to be individually identified at weaning with no possible mixing of litters
Scottish executive issue you with a herd number as well
and sheep are just as bad one herd number for ordinary sheep and a totally different one for pedigree
you cant remove a tag as that is illegal and could end up if you followed the rules with an animal that has an ear like a Christmas tree
the bpa herd book number is longer and more straight forward than the kunnie one and can be traced both ways either book number or individual id number
now the cards are reissued to the new owners on becoming members of the bkkps as do the bpa and if the number is the herd book number it should still come back to that pig
86 registered breeders is a far bigger gene pool than some of the bpa breeds Hampshire's have about 13 breeders and are really struggling to get anything past grandsire or dam that is not close related which is why i commented on your opinion initially
and if it is herd book registration numbers it makes interesting readingaround 550 registrations in three and a half years and the next year only 135 with more pigs :farmer:
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hallelujah we are making progress 287 was a boar pet name George 839 was a sow named mildred and younger sow 974 which was Matilda we had them for two years they then went to oban rare breeds then lee and Allison end up with them now George was 8 years old when we parted company with him and had the number 287 he then reapears at Allison's with the number 974 and blow me is related to both of your lines which is what i said all that time ago and George is tarus tutaki which is Neil cross bred and he died a short time after we bought them from him and from memory oban rare breeds did not have any kunnies prior to buying ours :farmer:
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Sorry, I didn't count Harriet as one of my lines (no offence to the wee girl, it's just cos she's new here :D)
In the original breeding pair of Kunekunes that I bought there's no trace of the same lines as yours were Robert, which is probably why they were a different size to the one's you had.
Harriet is smaller and dinkier compared to my other ones, poor love's udder would be in the mud if she was outside now :o :roflanim: But there are a range of sizes, from 24 to 36 inches tall are 'accepted' as being within the breed standard - that's bigger than most folk think :innocent:
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found it!
ok, sorry for the confusion, Tarras Tutaki 1 Herd book number 1147 and BKKPS no 974 (i had just written 974 in my movement book)
Breeder Neil Cross, DOB 22 march 2002
Robert, your name appears july 2004
so its worth keeping these cards!
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on my trip to hatfield is where the size difference came into it a bit more than 12 inches in the small corner is Wendy's pigs and the large ones were the ones getting the accolades it would be interesting if Harriet is as prolific as the other ones that are bigger
this is all getting away from the external protrusion of an internal organ through the membrane that holds it in place :farmer:
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this is all getting away from the external protrusion of an internal organ through the membrane that holds it in place :farmer:
:roflanim: :roflanim: :roflanim:
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now that we have made some headway could you search 839 and287 now we know that is there mumbers and not the herd book insertion number :farmer:
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now that we have made some headway could you search 839 and287 now we know that is there mumbers and not the herd book insertion number :farmer:
Only way of tracing them is to use the Herd Book No, those 2 no's are Trevanion Rebecca Gina IX & Summerhayes Awakino III - I guess on the BKKPS Registrar or a previous owner whose kept the Reg cards would be able to match them up ::)
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on my trip to hatfield is where the size difference came into it a bit more than 12 inches in the small corner is Wendy's pigs and the large ones were the ones getting the accolades it would be interesting if Harriet is as prolific as the other ones that are bigger
Was it definately her Kunekunes she had there ? Wendy also has 'little' Swedish pigs ;) Or they might have been younger ones ? Wendy keeps all of the different bloodlines, but I haven't had a chance to discuss with her if she notices a difference between them.
We get smaller ones and bigger ones all in the same litter - some are just shorter on the back and shorter in the leg (much more 'barrel like' :D) then there are others which are a bit longer and leaner. I tend to prefer the longer and leaner ones (especially for pork), but if someone is looking for a 'pet' pig the smaller ones are ideal.
Harriet isn't as prolific as Adelaide. I can't remember what her first litter was, Lynne will be able to tell you ;) but the litter she's just had was 7, 5 alive, 2 still born.
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if it is Swedish pigs she entered they were in the kunnie classes
you do get differences in size of piglets it is a multiple birth afterall
i am still leaning towards the outcrossing for the size and the litter increase as well especially as one of the points of the kunnies being more expensive was there small litter size
the outcrossing will always show up :farmer:
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Well, I prefer to attribute the increase in litter size to the fact that breeders are only choosing the very best examples to take forward for future breeding. Registering gilts and boars with more than the required 10 teats and making sure the pigs are in tip top health when mated and during gestation.
Any breed can be, and is improved in this very way, you'd expect the subsequent generations to be better than the one before if breeders were making sure the offspring registered was better than what went before - if not, what is the point of pedigree breeding ? (of any species)
I suspect Kunekunes were expensive originally to help cover some of the importation costs, rather than the fact they had small litters (can't see how that would be a plus point for any breed ???) ;)
Since you're so convinced that there must've been some outbreeding I suggest you take it up with the BKKPS. I have paperwork saying I own registered Kunekune pigs, who IMHO all meet the Kunekune breed standards. They were sold and I bought them in good faith as being Kunekunes and I have absolutely no reason to suspect otherwise - that's good enough for me. :thumbsup:
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so what you are saying is that Wendy does not select the best and others do
the blurb ten years ago was empathising the small litter size
and as i have said before to get that increase in litter size in such a short time and not across the board
and on your last paragraph i have spoken to Wendy as i said face to face but she has some good berkshires :thumbsup: ;) :farmer:
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I am saying no such thing about Wendy or Wendy's pigs, Robert. Stop stirring :stir:
I wasn't at the Yorkshire, I didn't see Wendy's pigs compared to the others there, the placing on the day was up to the judge on that day and has nothing to do with me or you.
I saw Wendy's pigs at the Welsh show and saw them as being no different to the others there, some of her pigs are a similar size to mine. What I said was I prefer longer and leaner for pork Wendy wouldn't be breeding for pork so will have a different idea of what she's looking for in her pigs - not better or worse, just different.
I will contact the breeder of my Kunekune sow and let him know the aspersions you're making with regard to outcrossing - will let you know what I hear back :innocent:
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oh dear Karen hatfield has the kunnie classes yorkshire does not and nobody criticised the judging at any show and as far as i can see it is you that is :stir: getting very defencive sunday is going to be interesting :farmer:
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so what you are saying is that Wendy does not select the best and others do
THIS is stirring ::)
And yes, I am getting defensive because I feel you are/have been making derogitory remarks or implications about my husbandry and my pigs and to be honest I'm getting beyond sick of it ::)
I've told no lies, I'm not making things up or trying to mislead folk and I don't go about my business in any sort of underhanded manner - I feel you suggest that I do, all because one of my pigs has big litters ??? :'( I have tried many times to explain to you and give you numbers and figures to back it up - you either don't believe me or don't want to hear it........ there's not much more than that I can do ! I dispair, really I do :-\
Sunday will be fine, Bruce is looking forward to seeing you :roflanim: :wave:
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so what you are saying is that Wendy does not select the best and others do
the blurb ten years ago was empathising the small litter size
and as i have said before to get that increase in litter size in such a short time and not across the board
and on your last paragraph i have spoken to Wendy as i said face to face but she has some good berkshires :thumbsup: ;) :farmer:
Robert, I am really hoping you are not casting nasturtiums ???
As with breeders of any pedigree animals, everyone will have their favourite "type", be it colour, size etc
I personally prefer my KKs to be more of the "rangey" type, rather than the very "short, fat & round" type. There are several reasons for this - the land we have available for them to live on (2.5 acres of sloping woodland), that I am specifically aiming away from the whole "mic**" craze & more towards a "proper" small, smallholders pig.
By making this choice, I am selectively keeping-on future breeding stock that conforms to both BKKPS Breed Standards & my personal preference - stud boars with 2 piris & 6 clean pairs of teats (3 either side of the sheath) & sows with either 6 or 7 clean pairs of teats.
The result is healthy, mainly good Breed Conformation youngsters with well-affixed piris, 7 clean pairs of teats & leaning ( :roflanim: scuse the pun ) towards the rangey side - giving me what I want - a good "all-round" smallholding pig - docile, good natured, hardy, excellent mothers & economic to raise for the freezer :yum: Ok, there are differences in every litter by way of size, colour etc & I am still getting some with no piris, so those that don't make the grade will never be registered for breeding from & are sold for meat or companion pigs.
As with any breed of pig - take the same pig in front of 2 different judges & we'll probably get "Best in Show" under one of them & maybe a 3rd with another - if every pig in front of them meets the Breed Standards it can just come down to the expression on a pig's face on the day ;D
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Ok folks - time-out PLEASE!
It took me so long to write my last post, there's been an additional 3 made - Robert - stop :stir: & Karen - go for a cold shower ::)
I feel so sorry for Mr 4H - no mind about stewarding the pigs - he'll be refereeing a boxing match on Sunday :innocent:
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Lynne it is not me that is stirring your friend is doing a very good job herself
so what if there is outcrossing there are at least 2 breeds within the bpa that it is common knowledge it is your fault any way Lynne claiming the small gene pool you work with what is available within your chosen breed :farmer:
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Lynne it is not me that is stirring your friend is doing a very good job herself
so what if there is outcrossing there are at least 2 breeds within the bpa that it is common knowledge it is your fault any way Lynne claiming the small gene pool you work with what is available within your chosen breed :farmer:
Ok Robert, maybe we need a "clockwork key" emoticon on here instead :eyelashes:
If there has been any "outcrossing" done with KKs, I would be interested in finding out who did it & more importantly why - genuinely so. I have 3 sow lines & 2 boar lines, with full ancestory that can be traced back to the "16", but I am selectively keeping-on those that meet my personal requirements - working within my chosen breed, as you said.
Not sure how my comments about a small gene pool started WW 3 tho ???
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gulp!! i will be hiding in the corner with my round and fat,Heidi and my longer, leaner Bunny and a very smiley 10 year old! Oh to have the confidence of a 10 year old!!
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Allison there is no need to hide in any corner or anywhere
Lynne the ones that do the outcrossing are not going to mark it on the pedigree and any outcrossing can influence that breeding for up to 6 generations just look at roman noses in people it is a long time since the Romans conquered Britain it is when a particular trait becomes dominant pricked ears when they should be floppy and floppy when they should be pricked the ears are just an example as to what can show up
now take the lop crossed with the Hampshire no piglet to date has lop ears just as no piglet to date has a saddle all are predominately white but then again we are not passing them of as something that they are not they are for meat and very good lean meat at that
which then comes to prolific breeding in the commercial herd they use the maisham pig cross that with another either large white landrace or Duroc and end up with a pig that suits them some even leave out the maisham connection
all i am saying is the kunnies were not known to produce large litters and in the space of 10 years to get more than double the litter size something has happened
Dan will be coming in locking this thread and asking for it to be moved to a thread of its own :farmer:
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Hi Robert :wave:
I am still, maybe naively, believing that the differences are due to husbandary - selective breeding & feeding - I wouldn't like to be proven wrong about this, why would folks want to outcross KKs, when their small size is part of their selling points? But I think I get what you mean :innocent:
Allison :wave: Heidi & Bunny (& the ten year old) will be fine - look forward to seeing you :excited:
:love: :pig: :love:
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Allison :wave: Heidi & Bunny (& the ten year old) will be fine - look forward to seeing you :excited:
:love: :pig: :love:
Me too :wave:
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im looking forward it too, just wish the wild weather would stop so we could practise some more!!
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none of them we bought them in DEC 03 974 was a year and a half old 839was two and a half years old 287was6 years old they came with 5 piglets that we never registered they were sold in Jan 05 to oban rare breeds with there paperwork hope this helps you with your research :farmer:
Bit rich saying the BKKPS won't act responsibly - its the responsibility of the breeders to litter notify and register their piglets.