The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Smallholding => Land Management => Topic started by: escapedtothecountry on August 21, 2012, 03:36:22 pm
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Some of you will have read about my escapades with the neighbour who doesnt want me to paint the outbuilding magnolia as it may give a glare (30metres away from his property).
Anyway - here is the latest installment.
Some time ago I put down some of that platsic temporary fencing to redefine my border and his so that I could plant native hedging in between the poplars (my trees) that are directly on the borderline.
A while ago his sheep got in the gap where the native hedging was growing and created havoc... as of course they will as they saw tasty shoots to eat. We spoke to the neighbours wife who acknowledged if you have livestock it is the owners responsibility to keep them off others property.
Anyway - nothing was done so I place lots of old piece of corrugated iron roofing to bolster the defences so to speak. Today - some weeks after the first incident 37 hedging plant, rabbit guards and canes are upended.
We speak to the wife who says she needs to have a word with her husband?
Am I right in thinking even if it a temporary fence, it is the owner of livestock who has the responsibility to keep sheep out not mine? It doesn't matter that I may be responsible for the boundary fence. I would happily erect a new properly built stronger fence - but not just to let sheet push it to bits (don't get me wrong - I like the sheep).
Whats the solution??
Not sure why I need to spend more and more money to protect a hedge that would benefit is both from livestock that are not mine.
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If he has sheep, he should have stock-proof fencing.
What was keeping his sheep in before you put the temporary plastic fence up?
I think it should be like this:
Actually on the boundary - stock proof fencing.
Then inside the boundary, on your side, you put your temporary fencing and plant your hedge inbetween the two.
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A rickety fence with stock fencing 2 feet into my side of the boundary. So the sheep came in between the trees and the the fence inside my boundary line ( my fence I may add).
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Oh!
I know it goes against the grain - but if you want to reclaim that 2ft you are probably going to have to fence your boundaries properly, ie with stock fencing.
He's highly unlikely to do it, cos it's not in his interests to - it doesn't cause him problems, he'd lose the 2ft and have to spend money on fencing. And he sounds bloody-minded enough not to care he's bothering you.
Do you want the continued grief and waste of time and effort planting a hedge? It's probably worth putting up proper fence for the peace that will ensue?
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I think I'm right in saying that it is your responsibility to keep your animals in not your neighbours to keep them out. Therefore they should have decent fences, send them an invoice for the damage etc just the thought of having to cough up every time they escape might make them sort the fencing
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It does partly depend on where you are tho - keep your own animals in in England is normally the rule, in Scotland it is more 50:50 on boundaries, altho that seems unfair if someone has a livestock rancher next door who makes little effort to keep his beasts in, whereas the other person doesnt have any stock but still have to pay 50%. But I guess their 50% should be of a plain wire cheap fence and posts and then the stock netting would be 100% the rancher's lot .
I think the English way is easier and fairer!
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Or in my case - no livestock yet will probably end up paying for posts, postcrete, livestock fencing, timber rails, staples for a gas stapler, and all the labour to do it to stop sheep damaging my land. (and again don't get me wrong.. I like the sheep). Isn't life fun ;)
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You could always buy yourself a big smelly billy goat and let it go visit :innocent:
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Oh no what a pain! The last thing you need is to be on bad terms with your neighbour
I guess the amicable way forward is 50:50, although that does not seem fair to your bank balance :o
And I haven't read you other posts, and excuse my language but WTF! Magnolia giving glare, gimme a break! I would say "I am going to paint my building would you prefer magnolia or bright, sparkling, glow in the dark white" and see what he prefers :roflanim:
Good luck!
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You could always buy yourself a big smelly billy goat and let it go visit :innocent:
Oh I like that, or put a looonnnngggg thin field along the boarder and fill it with piggies :pig: :pig:
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Isn't he a pain - I thank my lucky stars I have no neighbours - long may the house next door stay empty!
What sort of distance do you have to fence?
We've done several fields, two of us, with just posts, no concrete, hammered stone into the holes of the strainers and gate posts. Double handled post-knocker to put in the other poles. Patented quad-bike tensioning method ;) Hammered in the staples. A strand of bottom wire in places but no timber.
The fences are good 5 years later and it would save money on your list?
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There is more chance that hell would freeze over before he would jointly pay for fencing.
He hasn't actually spoken to us since March when we said he couldn't dictate what colour an outbuilding would be and that saying we couldn't have access to 1 foot of his land to protect our masonry was actually illegal under the access to neighbouring land act.
That was probably our mistake - knowing what we wanted to do; wanting to improve something that when we got it was run down; and not being dictated to by someone who clearly has never had anyone stand up to them.
It takes all sorts.
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What sort of distance do you have to fence?
About 50 metres - but the tricky part is the poplar trees (ours) as they have grown are lets say three inches over the boundary line - so I will have to fence in between the gaps.
Thats fine. I already have the posts, the wooden rails etc and probably just need a bit more stock fencing... its just annoying that I will have to go to all this trouble when along his other borders he happily has put up electric fencing yet won't run it down where our boundary is.
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Oh dear in that case I guess you can't maintain relations, what a shame.
Electric fencing as a very short term deterant while the hedge grows up a bit? You could reuse it in other areas at a later date or that sort of thing retains value when selling on.
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The only consolation is that once the fence is up and secure it will be a big relief.
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Look on the deeds for conformation but if it is your fence , fence it . As for the poplar trees just go to him and explain that you are going to have to go round them and give him the equivelent amount of land in another place. As for legal access to maintain your buildings there is nothing he can do about that, just go for it and if he causes trouble call the police. He sounds like he is preying on your insecurity about tackling these matters, so go and tell him, not his wife . He will probably give in if he knows you wont put up with any of the proverbial excrement he comes out with. As for painting buildings if you can legally do it then do it, I know some places have rules and regs about colours etc but if you cant find any restrictions then for goodness sake do it. Dont live for him , he sounds he likes the power over you, LIVE FOR YOURSELF.There are folk like that here , when they find out they cant tell you what to do and have received a few 'polite no's' :innocent: then they soon leave you alone.
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Rylands V. Fletcher in 1880 odd established an area of tort whereby if you have something on your land which may cause damage to others then it is your responsibility to keep it in. That principle still stands.
Good fences make good neighbours. Etc. depends on the scale of row you want, but at the very least make detailed notes and photos cos it will happen again.
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is that the case that set the precedent and all similar cases since have hinged on :farmer:
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If its your ground, fence it in - it is probably unlikely if there was an existing fence 2 feet back he'd want to re-fence it.
Unless I've misunderstood.
Playing devils advocate slightly - but I imagine were it me, Id be wondering why a newcomer has moved and is immediatley arguing over 2 feet of land when there has been a fence in its existing place for years.
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yes good fences make good neighbours but sometimes the boundary is a bit vague and one side has to bite the bullet and get a proper surveyor in to redefine the boundary i know of two similar problems and both were caused by ordnance survey marking it wrong on the plans when it all went digital one they have a gentlemans agreement as to the boundary (this will cause problems in the future) and the other they had to get it surveyed and written statements from the neighbours normally o/s are spot on are taken as evidence in court cases before other evidence but the first case was so way of the mark it was laughable but not for the buyer and the seller :farmer:
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I live next door to the farmer from hell. He has been in court 3 times for neglecting his stock.
Dead animals everywhere and fly struck sheep being eaten alive by maggots the worse possible death I should imagine for an animal.
Last winter, as usuall his cattle got hungry and wrecked the fence between us and I had to replace 85 mtrs and electrify the top, as while I was erecting it they were breaking in another place. Cost around £400.
This week all he has left on his side of the fence are a million thistles and they are trying to break again on another fence.
This time it's 258 mtrs and a double fence with a hedge between. There is now no wire in places as the cattle try to get through for grazing on my fields. My side is fenced well, but it won't take his cattle long to get over it.
I shall have to fence his side as I know he will not do it. He's not the sort of man you want to cross.
Wanna swop neighbours?
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Omg castle farm!
That is disgusting!!! That man should be thrown in jail.
I would be going loopy if I lived next to him and see him treat his animals that way
RSPCA no use?
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Omg castle farm!
That is disgusting!!! That man should be thrown in jail.
I would be going loopy if I lived next to him and see him treat his animals that way
RSPCA no use?
:o if you get no luck with RSPCA try your local Animal Health Inspector :furious:
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Animal health might be interested in having a word since these (if not occasional accidental, swiftly rectified incursions) might well constitute unlawful animal movements onto another holding...:-)))
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Depends what system you have but here the Council Wardens get involved initially with lost dogs, mistreated animals and then call in the RSPCA, police etc. where needed, might be worth getting them to come and see especially when there are ill animals >:(
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plant heritage pear trees, after 5 years, the trees will be tall enough on pyrus communis rootstock, eventually the bark will be thick enough to deter all animals from chewing them
this is how fruit was farmed before, if you plant pear trees in lines around fields, the fields can be used for other crops and animals/chikens etc
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plant heritage pear trees, after 5 years, the trees will be tall enough on pyrus communis rootstock, eventually the bark will be thick enough to deter all animals from chewing them
this is how fruit was farmed before, if you plant pear trees in lines around fields, the fields can be used for other crops and animals/chikens etc
Very interesting...cheers denmylne :thumbsup:
Q. do you get a hardy variety type of pear tree?
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If its your ground, fence it in - it is probably unlikely if there was an existing fence 2 feet back he'd want to re-fence it.
Unless I've misunderstood.
Playing devils advocate slightly - but I imagine were it me, Id be wondering why a newcomer has moved and is immediatley arguing over 2 feet of land when there has been a fence in its existing place for years.
Steve to be fair I'm not sure whether being a "newcomer" is of relevance? The previous owner had lived here longer and had let our place get into a state of disrepair. Am I as a newcomer wrong to improve it because I am a newcomer? Of course not.
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Though to be fair there has been welcome news. The neighbours wife admitted it is their responsibility in keeping their livestock out of our property and as such will at some point will be putting up sheep netting.
Given they will be doing that I will be happy to spend money on fence posts and timber rails plus stock fencing to re-establish the boundary line as it should be.
Oh And as to the question why do I want the 2 feet back. Well given the neighbour points out the poplar trees are mine and happily chucks fallen small bits of branches back on my land I think I would have them fenced in on my side so at least I can look after my trees.
Agree that good fences make good neighbours.
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Going to law is a last recourse because it's expensive, unpredictable and time consuming. Keeping good records of what happened, who said what and on what date is good strategy which gives you plenty of ammunition should the worst happen. Making friends with other neighbours is also very worthwhile and will give you valuable background.
Playing a long game is best. Good luck
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Totally agree re making friends. Step mother in law lives on same street. Farmer directly across road sympathises with us. In fact the individual we have had 'issues' with was renowned for falling out with previous owner of our property on a regular basis. Great! LOL
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We rely on our neighbours a lot because they allow us to use their land for nothing - none of them has any use for it. So we keep them informed and give them home-made jams and the occasional leg of lamb. Helps a lot with the neighbourhood watch as well.
Congrats - you're about to be a full member!
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plant heritage pear trees, after 5 years, the trees will be tall enough on pyrus communis rootstock, eventually the bark will be thick enough to deter all animals from chewing them
this is how fruit was farmed before, if you plant pear trees in lines around fields, the fields can be used for other crops and animals/chikens etc
Very interesting...cheers denmylne :thumbsup:
Q. do you get a hardy variety type of pear tree?
yup
http://denmylne.wordpress.com/ (http://denmylne.wordpress.com/)
try black auchen or abernethy
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Thanks for the link denmyine. I shall read it when I have some time, as it looks very interesting. :trophy:
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Steve to be fair I'm not sure whether being a "newcomer" is of relevance? The previous owner had lived here longer and had let our place get into a state of disrepair. Am I as a newcomer wrong to improve it because I am a newcomer? Of course not.
Being a 'newcomer' is of paramount relevance, even though it seems your neighbour is being a bit of a tool.
You have to have bred for at least two generations to be accepted, you know... ;D
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Steve to be fair I'm not sure whether being a "newcomer" is of relevance? The previous owner had lived here longer and had let our place get into a state of disrepair. Am I as a newcomer wrong to improve it because I am a newcomer? Of course not.
Being a 'newcomer' is of paramount relevance, even though it seems your neighbour is being a bit of a tool.
You have to have bred for at least two generations to be accepted, you know... ;D
Some may say that if you havent left the locality for many generations you are not bred but bordering on inbred, but of course I couldn't possibly comment as its not my place as a newcomer. I am of course joking ;)
A tool will always be a tool.. this forum is just helpful to vent frustrations every now and again.
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If it where me I think I would use a few runs of barbed wire, dont like the stuff but its cheap if you get the High Tenstile stuff I bought 200 mtr reels last week for 17.50 plus vat a reel.
But eventually you have to tell these people the facts of life.
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yup
http://denmylne.wordpress.com/ (http://denmylne.wordpress.com/)
try black auchen or abernethy
[/quote]
Where can you buy these pears?