The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Dogs => Topic started by: sabrina on August 21, 2012, 12:38:19 pm
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For the past couple of months I have wondered if Rascal was seeing properly. As he was checked over by the vet as a puppy my OH kept telling me that I was being silly. Yesterday Jake and Rascal had a trip to the vet for their flea and tick treatment and overall health check. I decided to mention my worry over his eyes. Turns out he has a problem that affects up to 97% of collies world wide. CEA ( collie eye anomaly )nothing can be done but there is a test that breeding animals should have. Rascal came from working stock, both his parents are fine but must carry the gene to pass it on. It explains why Rascal does not seem to see distance or can go in a straight line to retrieve his ball. He barks and growls at shapes and is not good walking on his lead in the town. Gets into a panic. All we can do is keep an eye on him, use our voice if we are some distant from him to let him know where we are. My OH is so upset but in my mind Rascal has never seen his world in any other way than he does now so it is up to us to make sure he is always safe and happy.
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Sorry to hear about Rascal, Sabrina :bouquet:
We had a retriever who had an inherited eye condition. He was blind from an early age.All I can say is that he was a wonderfully happy dog and led a very active life until the age of 14(old for a Flat Coated Retriever). Tell your OH to try not to worry. We made sure we used lots of verbal commands/ reassurance and of course looked out for dangerous situations that he would be unaware of eg. things he could run head first into, drops, caution when meeting other dogs. Also kept furniture in the same place, didn't leave vacuum in unfamiliar place, etc. He was a very friendly, outgoing boy but always said his name if strangers were about to touch him so that he was never shocked by the sudden touch.
My children grew up with him and he went everywhere with us .... holidays, the park, town and so on. You get used to thinking of the little things that make life easier/safer for them and it becomes second nature.
Hope that eases any concerns your OH may have :bouquet:
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Lucky Rascal to have a famiily that cares about him and will help him live a long and happy life.
I suppose this is what Annie's always banging on about - prebreeding health checks :)
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I have a white collie with a very little bit of black on him. I have had him since he was six weeks old. I had put my name down for a puppy when they had some in at the local animal santuary. He has one blue eye and a very small blue eye. He sees very little, but knows his way around by feeling things with his feet and smell. He can adapt very quickly to new changes in his environment. Out and about he walks on a lead, maybe not in a straight line as that is harder for him to do and in the local forest, he can find his own way home without a lead. He is now close to 12 and that is how his life has been all the time. He knows no better so it is not an issue for him and he is probably one of the best dogs we have had.
I now have Goldies as well and have started going done the line of testing them for eye conditions that they can get. The last one being a DNA test for prcd-pra and the next will be a DNA swap test for another form of pra which will be done by the Animals Health Trust, this I am doing as I want to breed from my dogs without passing on the health issues they can have to another generation. The bitch has already had hip scores of 3/3 and elbows of 0. The dog is only 9 months so I can't do him until he is a year old, but the eyes he has had tested.
It's lucky Rascal has a owner who is prepared to look after him. :)
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As the farmer we bought him from assured us that his dogs were all in the best of health, good working dogs who we saw were full of life and bounce. He only breeds a litter when he wants a young dog to bring on. With the amount of sheep he had he would soon know if a dog was not up to its job.. I also took Rascal to the vet as soon as we got him for this very reason to double check he was OK. His problem is picked up when the pup is just weeks old. I do not understand why our vet said he was fine. At least I know why he is the way he is.Been on the hill with me most of the day and as long as I kept him in my sight he was fine. If he wanders and I call him he cannot see me so I will just have to remember that.
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yes rosemary that is why Annie was very passionate about testing prior to breeding :farmer:
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Sorry to hear that. Sounds like he is managing ok.
I do know that it is tested for and I think that some dogs can be carriers, without actually having it themselves.
Helen
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As the farmer we bought him from assured us that his dogs were all in the best of health, good working dogs who we saw were full of life and bounce. He only breeds a litter when he wants a young dog to bring on. With the amount of sheep he had he would soon know if a dog was not up to its job.. I also took Rascal to the vet as soon as we got him for this very reason to double check he was OK. His problem is picked up when the pup is just weeks old. I do not understand why our vet said he was fine. At least I know why he is the way he is.Been on the hill with me most of the day and as long as I kept him in my sight he was fine. If he wanders and I call him he cannot see me so I will just have to remember that.
It might be worth while to use a whistle to help him know where you are as the sound of your voice does not travel as far as the sound of the whistle. :)
All of my dogs will come to the whistle. :relief:
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Good idea, will get one tomorrow.
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As the farmer we bought him from assured us that his dogs were all in the best of health, good working dogs who we saw were full of life and bounce. He only breeds a litter when he wants a young dog to bring on. With the amount of sheep he had he would soon know if a dog was not up to its job.. I also took Rascal to the vet as soon as we got him for this very reason to double check he was OK. His problem is picked up when the pup is just weeks old. I do not understand why our vet said he was fine. At least I know why he is the way he is.Been on the hill with me most of the day and as long as I kept him in my sight he was fine. If he wanders and I call him he cannot see me so I will just have to remember that.
As I understand it, with Collie Eye Anomoly, they are tested at a young age but must be tested again later as it doesn't always show up until later on.
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I suppose this is what Annie's always banging on about - prebreeding health checks :)
As I understand it, if the parents are registered with the International Sheepdog Society they are both clear of CEA.
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Good idea, will get one tomorrow.
Get a Gundog whistle something like a 210.5 (two ten and a half) reason being, if you lose it, and you will, you can buy another of the same pitch.
Otherwise you get a different sounding whistle and you're suddenly speaking a different language to the dog.
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Get a Gundog whistle something like a 210.5 (two ten and a half) reason being, if you lose it, and you will, you can buy another of the same pitch.
Otherwise you get a different sounding whistle and you're suddenly speaking a different language to the dog.
Very good point, I should know :-[ . The black plastic ones are good and quite cheap. Your boy should pick up the commands fairly quickly and will be fine :thumbsup:
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Try here for other colours
http://www.solwayfeeders.com/products/dog-whistle-210-1-2-high-pitch-p5029-c483.html (http://www.solwayfeeders.com/products/dog-whistle-210-1-2-high-pitch-p5029-c483.html)
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Hi
CEA is a recessive gene so the parents can be clear on eye tests but be carriers. However there are some dogs which are 'go normals' which appear normal on testing as adults. They can be detected as very young puppies so are checked at about 6 weeks by an eye specialist as it can be difficult to detect. There is now a DNA test which can show the carriers.
The ISDS require the parents to be eyed tested clear or to have the DNA test with 1 clear parent & the other clear or carrying the gene. If the stud dog produces affected puppies in 2 litters they will no longer register his puppies if he is only eye tested clear - although that may have changed since DNA testing
Rose
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Can you let the breeder know? He may be unaware of the genetic status of the parents.
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Got in touch with the breeder and he said he would take Rascal back but of coarse thats not something we would even think of doing. As far as he knows puppies he bred in the past have been fine but I pointed out that not many people would realise there dog had a problem if it was just slight. Having been with dogs for years and worked as a trainer I knew something was not quite right but my OH kept saying he was fine. Farmer is going to get in touch with the other 2 people who bought the puppies to see how they are or so he says.
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Lucky Rascal to have a famiily that cares about him and will help him live a long and happy life.
I suppose this is what Annie's always banging on about - prebreeding health checks :)
Indeed it is! Wish the light would dawn on everyone else! ::)
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Hi Annie, here was me thinking I had asked all the right question before we bought him, took him to the vet for a full check up an still get caught out. What I do not understand, if this eye condition is so rife in the collie why did my vet not double check his eyes with the care that he did on Monday. As we saw both dog and bitch who were indeed full of life and running around showing off there was nothing to give us any thought that something was wrong. Both these dog do sheepdog compitions and have a whole list of prizes which the farmer was delighted to tell us all about. The one thing that does stand out was when he was around 9/ 10 wks old I had him and the others in the straw park for a bit of fun. He sat down and rufused to follow myself and Tanya and Jake. I went almost the whole lenght of the park calling him all the time and still he just sat. In the end I walked back and got him. Now I know he could not see me. As people have said he has never know any other way and is doing well enough being such a clever lad.
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He sounds like a good breeder! Had some one in at work (am a vet nurse) with a dog with awfull hips (cross bred small dog), no the first litter from the parents either. Owner told the breeder who was not at all interested!
Very lucky boy to have such an understanding family :0)
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A good breeder would do know the problem exists in the breed and do the tests for CEA before breeding, regardless of how good the dogs were at working. A blind collie can't work!
I am so sorry this has happened to you, Sabrina, but your vet would only check the pups for hereditary defects if eh thought they wouldn't have been tested for. vets, like Joe Public, assume that breeding is done by knowledgeable people. Unfortunately they are wrong much of the time.
He will be loved, that is what matters, and his other senses will make up for a lot of his loss of vision. I'm sure you will still have a lot of fun with him.
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We had visitors last night and Rascal did his usual and tried to hide under my chair. I expained his problem and John who is a dog person got down and sat on the floor never saying anything to Rascal but talking away to us. did not take long before he was climbing all over John tail going like mad. We are going on holiday with the dogs and will need to be careful that he does not get stressed out in a strange place.
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Watch him carefully if he's off lead as he won't know where he is - a flexi might be a good idea.
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Was just saying the very thing to my OH.
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Another idea to give him a bit more freedom is a line for a whirly (I use a yellow plastic one to train youngsters, and you can cut it to any length you want - the flexis aren't long) - make a loop at one end for holding it and tie a collar clip to the other end. If he gets tangled anywhere one of you can keep him there and the other go to his end and pull it through as it slides easily
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While picking up droppings this morning Rascal was running about as if he had no worries. he loves to chase Jake which started me thinking, if he did get worse and could see very little would it be possible to somehow harness both dogs together and teach Jake to be his eyes.
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You've been watching too much Paralympics. ::)
My brother has a Cocker which is pretty much blind and has always been.
Vet says it's juvenile cataracts and they could be removed but the 'shock' of being able to see would perhaps be too much.
I have my own views on the rights and wrongs of taking on (as he did, not yourself) a blind dog but they do seem to learn to cope.
As someone once said to me, think it was a vet friend I had at the time, animals have no concept of being disabled they just get on with it.
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I think I'd have been inclined to operate on a young dog - getting over the shock of being able to see would be far outweighed by the animal having sight. But yes, I would also agree that animals do just 'get on with it'.
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While picking up droppings this morning Rascal was running about as if he had no worries. he loves to chase Jake which started me thinking, if he did get worse and could see very little would it be possible to somehow harness both dogs together and teach Jake to be his eyes.
Years ago my sister had a deaf Airerdale. We would couple her to my friendly Standard Poodle so she could have a gallop. It did take a bit of time for them to work it out completely but in the end they were fine. Nell the poodle was excellent at recall and Kate the Airedale soon learned to follow her every move.
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I have a white collie with a very little bit of black on him. I have had him since he was six weeks old. I had put my name down for a puppy when they had some in at the local animal santuary. He has one blue eye and a very small blue eye. He sees very little, but knows his way around by feeling things with his feet and smell. He can adapt very quickly to new changes in his environment. Out and about he walks on a lead, maybe not in a straight line as that is harder for him to do and in the local forest, he can find his own way home without a lead. He is now close to 12 and that is how his life has been all the time. He knows no better so it is not an issue for him and he is probably one of the best dogs we have had.
This is what happens when collies get bred for candy colours >:(
I will willingly put money on the fact that your dog is a 'lethal white' produced from breeding 2 merles together. It can produce some horrible deformities, blindness and deafness too.
~One lil pup I knew had pink eyes and rectangular pupils :o
Regarding blind dogs and dogs losing their sight over time, try this trick...
Tie a set of bells to your walking boots. When my old lab lost his sight I did this and he would trot away near me happy as larry :thumbsup: He followed the sound for as long as I was walking, and if the bells stopped jingling then he stopped walking ;D
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Thanks for the info. the bells sounds good. When I lost him the other week while working on the hill paddocks i came back to the house for a squeaky toy and he app erared from no where. maybe his eyes are as bad as they are going to be, who knows.
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Well after getting in touch with the breeder about Rascal's eye problem he is once more selling puppies in the local paper :rant:
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Well iif poss don't just :rant: can you report it to the KC or the Sheepdog people or trading standards,
the RSPCA ....... Anybody ......
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Phoned the RSPCA so hope they do something.
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Good on you, I wish I'd done something about the duff breeders I knew about.
I gather someone reported them and they aren't breeding now though.