The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: the great composto on August 20, 2012, 09:51:20 am
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Dispatching chickens is never a pleasant job but sometimes is necessary.
So does anyone have.use any tools for doing this to make it easier? Personally I use the broom handle across the neck but I would love something efficient and quick.
Any suggestions or methods (or tools) that make this unpleasant task easier?
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It's a tough job I know. The broom handle method is quick and efficient plus you know for definite that the neck has dislocated. The best way in my opinion.
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I agree, I don't think there is a better way than the broomstick either. It's quick and effective, one minute they're there, the next not, with no stress beforehand.
The pliers/dispatchers are worse apparently - might make it better for the human but not the chicken. As does stunning them, sticking them in a cone and all the other things people do for their own convenience - IMHO.
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The pliers/dispatchers are worse apparently - might make it better for the human but not the chicken. As does stunning them, sticking them in a cone and all the other things people do for their own convenience - IMHO.
Have to point out that this is entirely your opinion jaykay, and presumably based on your own experience. Stunning is a legal, humane requirement for slaughter methods involving bleeding out, and in my experience is never done for anyone's "convenience". You're happy with your broomstick, which is great for you, but please don't suggest that other legal, humane methods are in some way inferior, or assume the reasons for using other methods are not noble. :)
The most important things are that the bird does not suffer and that you are confident and decisive in the method you use. All legal methods have their advocates, and all have the capacity to be done wrong.
More info about poultry slaughter here: http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/livestock/poultry/slaughtering-poultry/ (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/livestock/poultry/slaughtering-poultry/) :thumbsup:
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Quote from Humane Slaughter site
Neck dislocation
Dislocating the neck of the bird may cause rupturing of the spine and concussion. When done correctly, this results in the bird losing consciousness immediately and irrecoverably. However, it is difficult to achieve concussion consistently using neck dislocation therefore this method is not suitable for routine commercial harvest. It may however be appropriate for small numbers of birds or for emergency killing. A humane alternative is electrical stunning followed immediately by neck dislocation. Methods that crush the neck (e.g. pliers) do not cause concussion and are therefore unlikely to cause painless or immediate loss of consciousness. Their use is therefore NOT recommended. It is important that a technician applying neck dislocation is mentally prepared to carry through the whole procedure. Practice on dead birds may improve the confidence in application of this method.
Seems like good advice, to practice on dead birds...however how to I find these dead birds who do not already have their necks brocken so that I can practice doing this!
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Thanks for the Link Dan - I hadnt seen that on the forum. Bit harsh on JK tho' - He was only giving his opinion which was interesting to me to read.
The broomstick method allows you to keep the bird calm right up to the last point and its very effective - I suppose I am asking for less distress for me because I feel uncomfortable with it and wondereing if theres a 'magic' solution.
For southmains - I think better than practice on dead birds - I would recommend letting someone who has done it before allow you to watch and then supervise your first efforts. It is scary with the first few when you are not quite sure that what you may have read works in practice.
I would really have benefitted from being shown first.
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Bit harsh on JK tho' - He was only giving his opinion which was interesting to me to read.
I've no problem at all with JK's opinion, but it's dangerous when those reading that opinion might mistake it for fact.
JK's right, there are serious issues with using pliers for killing poulty, but not with stunning or the use of cones, which protect the bird and make consistent slaughter easier, which is better for the human and the bird, and why they are used worldwide in commercial and small-scale operations.
We tried several methods before settling on the one we use, and would recommend others do the same, and get experienced help the first time if possible. :thumbsup:
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I guess we are all just looking for the perfect method. I have done the watching method (lots of time), and am still not sure that I could do this efficiently so that the animal does not suffer, I really don't want to "learn / practice" on a living animal...so the only solution is I wimp out and keep letting OH do the nasty deeed...but i do feel guilty about not doing my fair share, suppose if I offer to do all the plucking, cleaning and cooking that sort of evens it out a bit.
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Southmains - we all have to get over the first one but you also have to be mentally able to carry it through. My OH 'lets' me do the despatch and in return agrees to do the prep too.
I think if the broomhandle method can be done by hand then a peice of equipment must exist to duplicate the actions and therefore take away some of the anguish.
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An electric stunner is a costly bit of kit but, in my opinion, is the most humane way to kill poultry. It may pay you to ask around for someone who has one, they wouldn't charge much just for the kill. I do it for the cost of diesel to get to them as long as folk are local.
You have to get a "provisional license" first, then get a DEFRA vet out to watch you slaughter birds. He will then sign your Certificate of Competence.
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Practical Poultry ran the first of a series of articles on this subject this month. Next month (October issue out 28th Aug??!!) they explain/ demonstrate the actual techniques. As a result of this article I contacted the NSA and bought their leaflet 'Practical Slaughter of Poultry for the Small Producer'. They condem our method of a wall mounted crusher. I think the problem is if the jaws are not set tight enough. They also don't recommend cutting the head off as evidence suggests it lives 20 seconds. Bad news for the people guillotined in the French revolution -people were reported as blinking and moving their eyes!
My preference is now to shoot the bird in the head (to stun it but it should be killed surely)-just behind the eyes says Gale Dumelow in Storey's Guide to Raising Chickens. Then to crush the neck. The NSA seem to discourage shooting as well, although a top power precharged air pistol is only £60 or less -almost same price as we paid for our wall mounted despatcher. I must add I fortunately haven't yet needed to use this method.
Problem is wringing the neck by hand needs practice and how am I going to get that?
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Dan,
My comment on the pliers was based on the information on the Humane Slaughter website.
My view about using a cone or stunning is that it adds a stage to the process and therefore, in my opinion, adds to the stress.
It is my view too, that using a cone is for the person's convenience to avoid wings flapping, and is not for the benefit of the bird, which should be dead by the time the wings flap, so doesn't care. In which case it's not done for the bird's benefit but for the person's because some people are distressed by the flapping. In my view it is not ok to add time and stress to the procedure (and tell me being stuffed head first into a cone isn't stressful) in order to relieve the person's stress. The person should get over it in order to do the best job for the bird.
These are of course, merely my opinions, which I made very clear in my post - note the abbreviation IMHO.
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My view about using a cone or stunning is that it adds a stage to the process and therefore, in my opinion, adds to the stress.
It is my view too, that using a cone is for the person's convenience to avoid wings flapping, and is not for the benefit of the bird,
we use a cone and the birds are actually very calm. its certainly not for the benefit or our convenience, but to ensure it is quick and sucsinct so that the birds are as stress free as possible.
it is swift and accurate- esp for larger birds and turkeys :thumbsup:
so i suppose as long as the method used is swift and as painfree as possible each choose their own method
Mx
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Hi Manian - Just a quick question - how do you do the deed when they are in the cone? I assume the bird is upside down but then what? broken neck by hand or stun? Do you let them bleed out afterwards?
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my PERSONAL OPINION is the same as jaykays.
cones, pliers, airrifles etc etc are for the convenience of the person NOT the chicken.
broomstick method is great as is doing it by hand, properly. learn it right first and stop copping out.
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Personally I use the broom handle across the neck but I would love something efficient and quick.
Do you not find the broom handle efficient and quick? If it's a space issue, use a smallish spanner or something. I don't think faffing with fancier kit would make things easier, unless there is a particular problem you're finding?
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my PERSONAL OPINION is the same as jaykays.
cones, pliers, airrifles etc etc are for the convenience of the person NOT the chicken.
broomstick method is great as is doing it by hand, properly. learn it right first and stop copping out.
It's hardly copping out to use a method that is acknowledged worldwide as safe and humane, is it? Just Google killing cone and you'll find lots of resources for everyone from large commercial operators to small scale keepers. For example:
Kill Them With Kindness: How to Make and Use a Killing Cone (http://razorfamilyfarms.com/animals/chickens/kill-them-with-kindness-how-to-make-and-use-a-killing-cone/)
Using a killing cone to dispatch your chickens (http://www.jenowens.com.au/using-a-killing-cone-to-dispatch-your-chickens/)
How to kill a chicken (as humanely as possible) (http://fourfroginternblog.wordpress.com/2010/05/10/how-to-kill-a-chicken-as-humanely-as-possible/)
Cleaning and Packaging Poultry Humanely (http://www.communitychickens.com/raising-poultry/cleaning-and-packaging-poultry-humanely.html)
I'm not claiming this is the only way or the right way, just pointing out that many, many people use it successfully. The most important things, as has been said already, are that you use a method you are comfortable with, that is legal, and that doesn't cause undue suffering to the bird.
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and while im at it.
taking a life should NOT be stuffing a chicken upside down into a cone, shooting it with an airrifle, then bleeding it. ok!!
this is how you kill a chicken.
you go in at night, select the intended, carry it securely under your arm, talking to it softly, whilst stroking its head. then you mentally prepare yourself for physically takin a life. hold the chicken firmly in one hand whilst the other hand, firmly, and,determindly, pulls the neck till you feel it go. it takes FORCE! it is VIOLENT. you then twist HARD.
thats it. its not easy but its an essential part of keeping chickens and you are left knowing that you did it right.
if you dont possess a stunner, then learn to do it as above. you will get the first one or two wrong, but youll get the rest right. and youll be a better person for it.
rant over, maybe.
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sorry dan, crossed posts.
nah mate sorry. its a cop out. its just a commercial solution. try it properly as ive described, then tell me which is more humane.
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I - with respect - strongly disagree about the cones. One of the posts linked to says you'll probably need a helper, and it's critical to use a sharp knife. I don't like throat slitting anyway (actually, aren't you meant to stun them before slitting? I must recheck that).
So there are two difficulties straight off.
And I don't see a gain/pay off?
I'm a fan of keeping it simple and foolproof - with the adrenalin going I don't want any chance of a stupid mistake.
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sorry dan, crossed posts.
nah mate sorry. its a cop out. its just a commercial solution. try it properly as ive described, then tell me which is more humane.
You're entitled to your OPINION as we are entitled to ours. I do not believe that the poutry we kill is stressed using the method Dan described and I kind of resent your "holier than thou" attitude.
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I - with respect - strongly disagree about the cones. One of the posts linked to says you'll probably need a helper, and it's critical to use a sharp knife. I don't like throat slitting anyway (actually, aren't you meant to stun them before slitting? I must recheck that).
So there are two difficulties straight off.
Not sure which part of cones you strongly disagree with. Our birds are quite calm in the cone. They are stunned / killed by a single shot to the head and bled.
In halal slaughter, there is no stun, just a single cut with a sharp knife. We had someone ask if they could buy a lamb this week, then added that they'd want to ritually slaughter it here :o
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We always use the broomstick method, just our preferred choice. Also it's pretty difficult to kill a bird with the stun and stick method without a cone. They start to flap ALOT as soon as the stunner is pressed making it hard to get in the knife because of all the wing flapping, and then add lots of blood to the constant flapping and you have a scene which would do CSI proud. I know from personal experience as I worked on a commercial farm for a good number of years. So the cone is mostly for the convenience of the killer but would most likely benefit the bird aswell as the deed is done quicker. I'm not saying either way is better, you should just use the method in which you are more confident in giving a quick humane death.
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An electric stunner is a costly bit of kit but, in my opinion, is the most humane way to kill poultry. It may pay you to ask around for someone who has one, they wouldn't charge much just for the kill. I do it for the cost of diesel to get to them as long as folk are local.
You have to get a "provisional license" first, then get a DEFRA vet out to watch you slaughter birds. He will then sign your Certificate of Competence.
Oh dear, do I now have to get a "certificate of competence" to kill a chicken? :o That really would be madness....
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i cant see how any chicken is calm, when inverted with its head in a cone, terrified witless maybe?
when you kill a chicken properly, like its always been done, you know its done right, because you can tell when the lifes gone.
all these other methods are to make the job easy, because it makes it detached by using tools and equipment, you might as well just rack em up by their feet and dip them in electricuted water, thats also legal.
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I'm fed up with this now - not much tolerance of other's views being shown by some on here. I think I'll take the :huff: and close my account ;)
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im tolerant of your view.
even if yours is wrong. ;) :D
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I cant agree with you either because if I did that then we would both be wrong :eyelashes:
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im tolerant of your view.
even if yours is wrong. ;) :D
Can we consider this closed now then and be pals again? :fc:
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maybe.
if you go kill a chicken properly. :-*
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maybe.
if you go kill a chicken properly. :-*
We do. IMHO :-*
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I dunno what the broomstick method is...
I have always had a loop of twine in one hand and pucked em up by their feet, and as I do, looped it round, hung em up and hit them on the head with something - the flapping and sudden stillness lets you know you've done it right and then you bleed em.
You have to bleed things so you get a nice clean carcase...same for everything, fish, birds, mammals.
And I dont reckon the bird knows much till its dead the way I do it, takes seconds.
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If you kill a chicken by neck dislocation you don't need to bleed it as the blood pools in the cavity where the neck has parted. Assuming you hang the bird by it's feet for a while. And as has been said here if you kill a bird by hand you know when you've done it properly as you can definitely feel the life go from it. I doubt if methods using neck crushing pliers or shooting will give this kind of positive confirmation. Not here for the argument btw just my opinion.
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An electric stunner is a costly bit of kit but, in my opinion, is the most humane way to kill poultry. It may pay you to ask around for someone who has one, they wouldn't charge much just for the kill. I do it for the cost of diesel to get to them as long as folk are local.
You have to get a "provisional license" first, then get a DEFRA vet out to watch you slaughter birds. He will then sign your Certificate of Competence.
Oh dear, do I now have to get a "certificate of competence" to kill a chicken? :o That really would be madness....
No, you don't need a certificate to say you're a competent slaughterman, only if you do other peoples poultry they like to know that you know what you're doing.
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Really any method that ensures a quick and sure kill is acceptable. I used to take a chicken from it's perch at night and break it's neck before it realised it had been picked up and this is fine if you have strong hands. Now that I can't trust my hands to do it properly I asked DEFRA for the best alternative option. They sent me a booklet on the different methods of slaughter and I found the stunner the most acceptable to me. I got my Cert. of Comp. so that I could do other peoples birds and(hopefully) get back a bit that has been paid out.
I can't see why anyone should stalk out in a huff over this discussion (no wonder new folk are wary?) so come back, kiss and make up, or shake hands if you're that way inclined ;D and let's all have our opinions without all these shenanigans( ;) )
Rosemary and DITW can kiss and make up, I hope. :) :) :)
Also, it has been proven that a chicken put upside down for no more than a minute or so is calmed ( a bit like carrying a piglet upside down is calmed) so, a minute in a cone may be beneficial? :-\
Posted with love, Sylvia XXXXX
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The body will relax and 'drop' after you hit it on the head. I've never known a commercial killing operation that didnt bkeed a carcase. I have done a fair few chickens in my time, and many hundreds of turkeys (for other people). If you want to be sure any creature aside from a fish is dead - touch its eye. If it blinks it isnt dead.
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I've never known a commercial killing operation that didnt bkeed a carcase.
Things are different in a factory environment. The birds go straight from slaughter into processing no time to hang them. Also a mechanised process has to be designed to ensure a proper humane kill every time and there are no hands on people to confirm that death has occured.
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Im talking seasonal turkey slaughter and itinerant chicken slaughter, where the birds are to be offered for sale. When I slaughtered fish, they were bled too.
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Rosemary and DITW can kiss and make up, I hope. :) :) :)
of course! i value my remaining teeth ;)
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Cripes!!! I was going to post on this thread when it was just two posts old but thought better of it :innocent: :innocent:
Thank god I did :o :o
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I think the wording of some of the posts in this thread needed to be thought about before being written.
It is OK (or should be) for someone to say a method of slaughter advocated by a poster is not ideal or even in their cruel and why they think so. But when doing this, they should also take into account the context of accepted opinion eg what bodies like the HSA recommend, and also should really avoid making it personal writing as though a poster on the thread is as a person cruel for using that method, given that it is officially approved and even recommended as humane.
On the other side, theres no point having a forum if everytime anyone gets cross they close their account - a forum is for exchange of views which by definition means views different to ones own as well as similar ones.
I do think tho that the wording of some recent posts by some members has deteriorated into plain rudeness, at least in the way they are written, and it has deterred me from posting on some threads on which they are active.
In short I think everyone should be able to tell everyone else they are completely wrong, but they really do need to do so courteously and not obnoxiously or abruptly, and always with an eye to the possibility that it may be them who are actually wrong!
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Is there anyone who would dispatch and dress quails for me in Lancashire? I have 12 boys who are fattened up and ready to go but I do not have the grip (or the stomach) to do it myself. Small renumeration available.
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You're right lachlanandmarcus. I think everyone needs to remember it's just a forum on the internet and not a matter of life and death(well only for the chickens). This forum is incredibly civilised compared to many I've seen.