The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Horses, ponies, donkeys & mules => Topic started by: sabrina on August 19, 2012, 12:22:47 pm
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Emma -Louise is my 12 year old grandaughter and has been around our ponies before she could walk. We have her most weekends ( long story ) and thanks to my friend June have a Shetland cross Highland pony on loan. She has come on so much over the summer but because she is very tall for her age I cannot see Teka doing her more than 2 years. We have had a long talk on where to go next and she is very keen for me to buy a Highland foal for her to love, something of her own that she can train and grow with. Her life is far from easy and I see so much of myself in her but now that I have retired from my job at the hospital money will be a bit on the tight side until I get my pension next September.I will be selling my Stallions if not this year then next. Not easy for me to do but with my joints showing the boys has become difficult and they would be far happier running with mares which I no longer have. I have pointed out to her that I can do most of the ground work but when it comes to backing and schooling then this would be down to her ( not allowed to ride anymore ). Trouble is I have 6 grandchildren. Only 3 live near enough that I see them the others being in Wales. Only Emma is keen on the ponies. I have a Shetland Gelding for the younger ones if they want to ride. Would I be wrong to buy a foal for Emma, keep it at my expense knowing that parents, stepmother, stepfather ( yes its complicated ) would not help out. I love all my grandchildren but I know the others have a good life, get lots of treats and holidays something Emma gets very little off. She wants to do dressage in the future, produce her pony herself the way I have always done. Its in her to get there but where do I draw the line ?
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Just a thought, but by the time the foal is old enough to be ridden your granddaughter would be around 16? Do you think she'd be content with a highland pony? Not that there not lovely, I think there gorgeous but if she's keen on doing dressage then maybe she'd want something more warmbloody? My daughter loves our cob type ponies now but I know when she's an older teenager she'llwant something bigger, faster, jumper, showier etc ( not looking forward to it! )
Just some things to consider. By the way I would have loved to have had a grandma that bought me a pony and helped and encouraged aswell :thumbsup: she's lucky she has you by the sounds of it :horse:
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Horses are so cheap atm, I would get her one but get her (given her age and changing needs) something that is backed but needs to be brought on. That way she will get fun from bringing it on but also get to go out and about on it too before she grows out of it.
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Highland ponies can do dressage - Macallum of Millfield, from the same stud as Smokey, did dressage to quite a high level.
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They can and some do, but it is the exception rather than the rule, since they dont have the extravagance of body confirmation/ movement (which is a good thing, since it makes them more comfortable to ride, longer lasting and sounder), nor are they always massively keen on endless schooling sessions. To me that just demonstrates their intelligence and sense :-)))
But all of them could happily do lower level stuff, so that wouldnt put off a recommendation.
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I think sabrina is more than experienced enough to select and bring on the right sort of pony. :-* I hear the question being about the fairness and whether it matters that she provides another pony for one grandchild when the others don't have any.
I have no children or grandchildren, just some very young nephews and nieces, so won't comment directly about children.
However, in terms of fairness - some people think 'fairness' means treating everyone the same, some think it means treating everyone according to their needs. I used to think the former and as I've grown older and I hope wiser, have leaned more and more towards the latter.
Would it make it feel more equitable, and be feasible, if it were the case that the new pony was available to be ridden by any grandchild attaining the appropriate level of competence...?
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I have had a warmblood, he grew to 18 hands and getting him to do a dressage test was hard work. Tee-Jay was my x race horse he too found dressage difficult. Sabrina my cob on the other hand often beat my friends fancy bred horses not only in dressage but cross country and show jumping. She loved her job. her highest score in dressage was 87% winning over 26 other horses. Horses are far from cheap up here, expect to pay £4, 000 to £5,000 for a warmblood foal . An adult Highland would be around £3, 500. Highlands are far cheaper to keep and most can go barefoot. Once Emma has reached the stage where a Highland could not take her as far as she wanted to go then she has something decent to sell to go towards getting a dressage horse to take her to the next level. My worry is am I doing the wrong thing by giving her something that I could not do for the rest if they were as keen. She has a natural talent even on the ground she will groom, muck out and pick up droppings in the field. Getting dirty has never bothered her where as my other 2 grandaughters who are a bit younger are very girlie, into nails and make up and fashion already. The boys have no interest, its all football with them which is no surprise seeing as my sons all played into their 30's .No one bought me a horse or pony I did it myself age 24 and I only got him because he was a nutter. My mother told me from the age of 4 I knew that I wanted to work with horses but no one gave me any help.Maybe if I had the chance at Emma's age I would not have been exploited working with horses doing a 14 hour day from the age of 15 and my joints would not be as bad as they are.
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Like the other Sally I don't have any children and therefore no grandchildren so I may be completely wrong here but is it worth discussing it with them all before you make a decision?
Sally
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Hi SallyintNorth I have had the ponies in the past if any of the others wanted to ride. Rory the shetland gelding who is broken to ride and almost to drive is great with the kids but none of them would groom or tack up. Out of my 3 sons only Emma's dad was keen and I bought him 2 ponies until he took up football.Maybe I am the way I am with Emma because I see myself at her age and know how it feels to want something so much. I used to save a whole year eleven shillings and six pence to have 2 hours pony trecking by doing jobs for our neighbours. My parents had no interest at all.
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However, in terms of fairness - some people think 'fairness' means treating everyone the same, some think it means treating everyone according to their needs. I used to think the former and as I've grown older and I hope wiser, have leaned more and more towards the latter.
I was about to post the same point. It is not about treating everyone the same. I think it would be perfectly okay to do this for only one grandchild.
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The other way you could put it is that you want another competition pony, but need someone to ride it for you. ;) In Dales and to a lesser extent Fell Ponies, it is not at all uncommon for the 'producer' to not ride the pony themselves, but to have it shown ridden.
If it were me, I suspect that I would later on regret it mightily if I'd not taken the opportunity to help a young relative get going with a hobby (that could become a career - she could be an Olympian in 2020 for all we all know! :D) that was in my area of expertise and interest.
If you retained ownership of the pony for now, by the time she was ready for her next horse you would know if any of the others were going to want to take it up, and could decide then whether this pony is your granddaughter's, for her to sell to put towards her next horse, or a pony that is now made available to the other grandkids to get them started.
How'm I doing? ;)
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That sounds like a good solution, you wouldn't have to make it exactly your granddaughters pony, just a project pony she was helping with....a lot! :thumbsup:
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I see your point and it makes sense. whatever I do my daughter in-laws will still moan. Emma is doing a show this weekend and as far as I know both sets of parents are busy. One day they will look back and wish they had given her more time.
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You could explain to them that she is actually paying for the pony by doing jobs for you. If you pay £500 for example then at £5/hr she would own the pony after 100 hrs work, even if it took years to pay off. The other children could possibly have a 'share' if they were willing to help with jobs aswell?
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that sounds a good idea - she will earn the ££/share as she is the committed one; the others wont but it will be their choice.
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I like that idea as she does plenty when she is here and I quite often give her some money before going home. I could keep a little notebook with the hours she does and what she earns. That way it can be shown to whoever starts on about the cost of the pony etc. Knew talking to you lot would help. Thanks for all your input :thumbsup:
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You could explain to them that she is actually paying for the pony by doing jobs for you. If you pay £500 for example then at £5/hr she would own the pony after 100 hrs work, even if it took years to pay off. The other children could possibly have a 'share' if they were willing to help with jobs aswell?
It sounds very sensible advice to me too. :thumbsup:
And, on the plus side if any of the other grandchildren/daughters in law complain that Emma gets more, you can always say that the pony can be "earned" with goodwill and efforts. A few hours mucking out will show them that riding ponies is not just jumping on after somebody prepared it for you and then go off play football leaving the poor beast to somebody else to clean/water/feed. This will tell you who really likes them and who doesn't.
I also have lots of experience with horses and I am not so comfortable with the idea of buying a foal for a 12-y old girl though. Your Emma sounds lovely and very committed and I am sure that with your experience you'd never leave her to decide on her own on big matters, however I still think an older one (just backed, as was suggested) would be best in this situation. Emma might get bored of waiting for the pony to be adult to ride - I know from personal experience :(
In Italy it is said "old horse to young rider"
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However, in terms of fairness - some people think 'fairness' means treating everyone the same, some think it means treating everyone according to their needs. I used to think the former and as I've grown older and I hope wiser, have leaned more and more towards the latter.
Know nothing about horses, but couldnt agree more with Sally re treating children equally/Fairly not being about treating them the same - You sound like the best grandma :hug: and I'm sure you give all your grandchildren the love and 'stuff' that they need as individuals, be that attention, wisdom, ponies.... Hope you can find the right pony :fc:
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Hi Sabrina
Like you I didn't own my own horse until I was in my 20s and would have given up everything as a child to have one - I know that my parents A - could not afford one and B - did not have the knowledge to keep one and C - didn't want to give up their time to take me to local stables to 'work' for lessons!
I sold my horse and first marriage broke up, but although money was tight I sent my eldest daughter to riding lessons, but she lost interset. My younger daughter was not really that bothered about riding, so that was fine. Have remarried many years later and now have a 7 year old daughter, who has ponies (now I must admit I have encouraged her lots!), but she is really keen and I really want her to have the chance to do the things that I never did....like to build that 'special bond with your pony when you are growing up' A friend of mine was just saying the other day that when she had a pony as a child she could tell her pony anything and it always made things seem better. when I see my daughter hug her pony my heart just melts and I am sure that they share something that even I can not be part of!
In terms of fairness I agree with many about it is about what you give to each individual and a great idea to work for the cost of the pony.
I LOVE highlands and a friend of mine has a cross which does a very good dressage test (only thing is some judges seem to 'switch off' when they come into the arena ???
I hope it works out for you and your Grandaughter :fc:
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Hi Sabrina
i read your posts and i remembered being the 'left out' child who would muck out stables for weeks just to lead a pony home.
i also agree with other posters that a foal will take a bit long to mature for Emma, why not a 2 year old? You will know the right pony. Only a year to bond, then light training (with your help). believe me the other grandchildren won't be bothered and as people have said, she works to pay for the ponies keep.
You are her grandma and as such you are at an age that you make your own decisions, despite what other family members say. you have climbed mountains without them and this is a small hill in comparison.
i wish you and Emma all the best and look forward to picutres of them both :)
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Emma is keen to have foal as this is what I did , at the moment she has Teka so a youngster would be show in hand. The one and only time that we bought a 5 year old Irish Sport Horse turn out to be the most exspensive mistake I ever made. he was so screwed up and took me 2 years to get him hacking out without having a nervous break down. when we tried him he was perfect, nothing showed up to suggest he was drugged but my vet later told me that with holding water is a trick often used these days to make horses look calm. All my other horses I either bred or bought as foals and produce them myself. show jumping, dressage and cross country. The rewards are wonderful, you know just what you have, nothing bad has happened. its like having a blank canvas. Emma is in no hurry, she has the gift with aniamls that so few have. Most want to be doing stuff right away. At the moment we are still at the talking stage.
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For what it's worth, here's my two bob....
I think anything that can be done to encourage, empower and bring on youngsters these days has to be admired and commended....
Look at it this way, if you were a football coach, you'd help the boys...a beauty therapist, the other girls. but your not....you have a wealth of experience with horses and a youngster that is bursting to learn...so what's the issue???
I look on it that I am (thankfully, and by the grace of God) lucky enough to be able to support my two daughters (9 and 17) and their Mum (no comment xx :innocent: ) in their pursuit of owning and caring for horses....however....they work for everything they have. They and they alone are responsible for mucking out, grooming, feeding etc. which is made easier as we have our own stables... they also have to do other jobs around the farm and they all get stuck in. I also include school report cards, general behaviour and of course level of cheek aimed at me and their Mother as an indicator of when they can buy something off the wishlist...my kids are by no means "spoiled"..far from it. They have a work ethic installed..lol
So, what I'm really trying to say is it would be a travesty not to do all you can, for both of you as you know you'll love it ;) , especially if as you say...other things in her wee life are not so good. Balance...you'll get your reward in heaven, plus you'll also glow with pride as you watch her grow into a mature, thoughtfull and hard working young lady.....
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Thanks for that. there are so many foals coming up for sale dirt cheap but rather dodgy breeding. People still putting mares in foal with no thought of their future. Highlands are still holding their price and I have been in touch with a first class breeder not that far from me who I have seen around the local shows for years. He has a good name, knows his stuff and is fussy who gets his animals. I have talked to him about Emma and what our plan is and we are welcome to visit his ponies. he runs his foals on but now and again will sell one to the right home. I am due my 5 year cancer checkup in January all being well I then get discharged and go down to one checkup a year. Then we will go ahead.
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Sabrina, we have eleven grandchildren. Some are interested in showing dogs, some are interested in dogs and some are either not bothered or too young. My criterion is, if one wants a puppy, they have to be six years old, can clean up after the dogs with both plastic bag and bucket and shovel, go with me to at least ten shows (experiencing the boredom as well as the thrills) and have a suitable temerament i.e. NO tantrums, hissy fits etc.
If they can do all this then I will breed/buy them their choice of puppy and help them with training and exhibiting.
I have never had any jealousy or shouts of unfairness. If the others have their interests I will undertake to help them too inasmuch as I can if their parents can't.
So, don't worry about the other five, their time will come. You love and care about them, they'll remember that :) :)