The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: SheepishSophie on August 14, 2012, 02:16:53 pm
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Hello!
I thought I may'swell put all of this in once post..
We've just acquired a 2.5 acre field next to our barn. It's currently got crops on but the landowner (and consequently our landlord) is going to seed it for us. He says 6-8 weeks it'll be sheep-able?! I'm not overly sure but he's a farmer and I'm not so.. :-\
One side is sheep-proof. We know this as it's the border of our old garden and we did it! Two more are patchy-hedges and the fourth, which borders our garden, has nothing. My Dad and I were trying to work out what fencing to use.. We'd ideally like post and rail against our garden for aesthetics but the cost scares us off abit! The other two.. he says electric wires would do but I'm wary about lambs escaping during lambing time! We're also going to partition the field into little paddocks to give the land a rest. Moveable stuff would be nice but not neccasary..
So what would you do? Stock fence the perimeter or electric wire it? And how would you partition it?
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Another question is about shelter. I'm planning (aka as I'm not quite sure yet) on getting Badger faced welsh mountain sheep and they'll have sturdy hedgrows on at least one side of their paddock so I'm not overly concerned at them having it year round. If it does get bad, we have old pig-arc metal sheets we can plonk down.
I'm wary about lambing time.. I've plenty experience lambing commercial flocks indoors so I don't really know what protocol is with these kinds of breeds.. do they need time mothering up?
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Third and maybe final!
Badger faced welsh mountain sheep, what do you think of them? I haven't space for a tup so I'd have to get one to 'holiday' over here, or buy in-lamb ewes.. which is the better option? I'm not concerned when they'll lamb as we have eyes and ears out year-round.
Thank you for reading such a long rambling post!
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Im a newbie like you, and also like you have just aquired 3 acres. I have bought some reclaimed wood from ebay. 8ft 6 inch lengths 6 inch by 3/4 inch. Its from good quality pallets and enough to build an 8ft by 8ft shed 6ft high. This cost me £50. To me a bargain. Get good old dad to have a look on ebay for reclaimed timber like this.
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He works on building sites so I'm sure he could get his hands on some! I never thought about those... we often cut 'em up for firewood.. Thanks!
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hi, we have a 2 acre field that we rent so didnt want to spend a fortune on fencing so we use electric wire around the perimeter and an electric net to divide the field into sections. Our Shetlands soon learned not to go too close and so far it is working for us - not for use with sheep with horns tho. no experience with new lambs tho, ours were 4 months old.
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It is said that electric fencing cannot be relied upon for lambs, so if you plan to lamb then you may as well do your perimeter in proper stock fencing.
There's a thread somewhere on more-or-less this very topic, in which many of us made the point that if you rely on electric then you need to be able to take the consequences when (not if, when. One day it'll short, or the battery will die, or, or, or...) when it fails. If the consequences are sheep on road, then probably you wouldn't want to risk it. If the consequences are sheep in your prize vegetable patch, probably ditto!
HTH
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Probably worth a mention on this that to use electric or not will depend on the breed of sheep.
I had Badger Faced sheep and the first thing they did was climb the wall and bugger off two fields away.
It took my friend and his two dogs to get the four of them back.
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So the general consensus is that as cheap as electric may be, you're better off using proper stock fencing? I priced it all up today.. it's not cheap! And we're only renting for the time being which makes it more heart/wallet-wrenching!
Also, any opinion on shelters?
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Oh my sheep laughed in the face of electric fences, drove me demented until we got stock proof fencing up and I laughed at them instead :excited:
Ours only have the shelter of a densely packed orchard but I don't know about badger faces as we have SuffolkXtexel and they are probably one of the hardiest woolly things out there.
I know nothing about seeding so will leave that to someone who really does ;) [size=78%] [/size]
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There's a thread back on Sheep page three called 'anyone made their own field shelters' by Buffy the egg slayer which you should find helpful.
I would go for proper stock fencing - if the worst comes to pass and you fall out big time with your landlord you could always dismantle the whole lot, take out the posts and take it with you. Or you could negotiate with him to pay back a proportion of your costs. We use stock fencing - the mesh stuff - and we use two strands of tensioned plain wire along the top rather than barbed, as barbed is so vicious to both sheep and people - and other animals.
Even sheep without horns can get stuck in electric mesh fencing, and push through electric strand.
I don't know anything about Welsh Badger-faced sheep, but they do look smart :thumbsup: We keep primitives which are renowned for being wild, but it all depends on how you handle them, so rather than believe any horror stories about Great Escapes go and talk with owners of the breed and see how those who say they are wild handle them, compared with those who say they are calm and easy to handle.
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I can only comment on the Badger faced issue. They are the most beautiful and rewarding sheep I have ever come across. Mothering is second to none of the breeds I have experienced. Lamb outside, 99% no problems but you will have to devise a way of catching them if there are problems. ( I suggest a corner catching pen) but if you need to assist they will probably lwet you sneak up on them.
Get a tup to come on holiday or buy a tup lamb and send him off to market after he has done his work. If you only have a few you could probably keep him with the ewes first year if you seperate the ewe lambs.
You will have plenty of shelter, my poor things lamb out on the hill. message me if you want to talk badgers. We might bore everyone else!! :thumbsup:
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Its your landlords paddock, if you are renting it he should fence the bloody thing. I've wasted enough of my life fencing other peoples fields because I was keen to get grazing. Last year I ringfenced (and have now divided some fields off) 30ac. Of course, my landlord bought the materials, but I shudder to think at the value of the free labout I have given him.
I understand you are keen, but at least make him pay for materials if you are going to give him your labour gratis.
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I think at the very least you need to have a stock fenced perimeter, then you can rest assured yours aren't going to go off on a little adventure! Mine is the only property where stock haven't escaped (except the pigs who got out of an orchard ::) ) - I've lost count of the number of times neighbours' sheep, cattle and horses have wandered up the lane or into our property, it's usually us who have to round them up ::) . Some even went up the main road and a farmer had to use his tractor to head them off!
I use stock fencing with an electric wire on top. It's not ideal for the horses but so far they haven't trashed it and it's cheaper than post and rail, which would still have to have stock netting for the sheep ... I wouldn't trust electric with some determined characters.
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After keeping sheep for 30 years I can, with a little bit of confidence, say that it would depend on your stocking density as to how happy sheep are to stay at home.
If you have grass bitten down to the roots or, even down to almost nothing, your sheep will look to the greener grass over the hedge and can you blame them?
If you have more than say, five, good sized sheep to the acre then you must have sound fencing. Sheep are picky grazers and prefer herbage rather than standard rye grass which is what most fields are sown with and will go to look for it.
If you're thinking of re-seeding for sheep I would reccomend something like Meadow-max. Makes lovely hay too :)
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Fleecewife, I read that, it was quite interesting! I had a look at your website, I had my first encounter with Hebrideans the other day and rather liked them! Although none had such spectacular horns as yours! He also had Soays... feral little things..
Omnipeasant, I'd not thought of using a tup lamb.. *thinking cap*, and expect a PM some time soon... when I have time AND the internet.
SteveHants, he's giving us the land cheap, seeding it and maintaining the grass for us for free was we don't have the machinery, whereas we can fence. It was out happy medium! Although it will be heart-wrenching when we finally move elsewhere and all our work is staying here!
Remy, we had pigs and they continuously escaped! We had proper stock-fencing. The little blighters figured out the gates, after a while if they were out, we left them.. our orchard was too big for three people so they muched away until we'd had enough of them!
Sylvia, I have yet to speak to the farmer about the seed, another issue I was wanting advice on! I'd like to think they'd be happy in their paddocks but I'm inexperienced and very much glass half-full! The worst they could do on the interior partitions is go to another paddock and they wouldn't be able to escape..
I may take some pictures to show you all.. I'm now considering stock fencing the gaps in the hedgerows and then permitting it with electric wire/tape? Bar the front line as that's very open.
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Its good that you are getting it cheap - the going rate is about 20p/ewe/week, If you can get it for less than that you are doing well. I have 20ac that I graze for a couple of lambs a year plus a couple hundred quids worth of labour (topping etc) so it does work.
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Definitely stock fencing, that said our lambs are out in high cornish hedged fields with 2 strand barbed wire and they are ok, without the wire they will go up and over a hedge though.
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Our 5 lambs where put on the lawn every day when they where little with electric netting around the edge.within the first week two where escaping every 5 minutes and ending up in the kitchen within the month all 5 could get out with out a problem.
they knew the bottles came out of that door and would head for the house when it was bottle time without getting a shock yet anything else touched the netting and it got a shock !
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So, yuu see, sheep aren't the stupid creatures they're made out to be ;D ;D
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So we've decided to post and rail the front section and then stock fence any large gaps in the hedgerows and then electric the perimiter, bar the post and rail section.. for interior I think I'll temp electric it as I want to see how they fair on different areas of the field.
You think this'll work?
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Sounds reasonable to me - I managed with electric fence backed up by hedges for ~2 years with my Shetlands.
I'd bucket train the sheep ASAP as it's by far the easiest and quickest way to get the sheep to go where you want them.
m
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good to read this Mab, someone else who uses electric fence and has shetlands :)
we have used electric rope and net around and across our field for just over a year now, and no escapes. it has been a wet day today and the sheep are in the section of field away form the shelter of a big tree and they have not tried to get through.
if you do use electric make sure you get a very high powered energiser specially for sheep as you need a lot of shock to get though the fleece. ours is a hotshock n50 .
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Hi,
I dont know if you have started on your fencing yet but as some one who has recently had to fence of 7 acres I know how expensive it is :-\
I agree with everyone else that you need something more substantial than electric on the boundary lines.
Post and rail looks good though the rails are more expensive than netting and the posts are more substantial than the posts used with netting. You can buy a monkey or a large post hammer and knock the stakes in yourself though this wont be as easy or as strong as using a machine. Getting the tension in the pig netting is also very difficult without a tractor to pull it taught.
You could use sheep or chicken wire though and put a top rail on to strengthen and neaten it up as a cheap compromise.
We have done this internally to fence of the veg patch from the sheep etc. :fc:
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Take the plunge, stock fence the perimeter. I tried electric in various guises. When they get a decent coat on they become immune to it. They sort of respect portable net fencing until they want to get to the other side, obviously the grass is much greener there. Bucket training will save the cost of a sheepdog and it is nicer that the sheep want to come to you rather than are being terrified to move by a dog. Sheep are much less hassle if they stay in the field you put them in.
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I don't think I'd have a choice about bucket training! My step mum is one of 'those' who, when we had pigs, didn't name them, she nicknamed them, just as bad! We had to take them to the abbatoir without telling her because she didn't want them to go! So the breeding ewes are going to be her babies and I've told her that finally, she can name something!
In regards to fencing, I'mma post pictures.. it's a pretty sturdy hedge in most places, all bar 3/4 big gaps.. does that still need stock fencing?
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When our first BWM ram lamb arrived he spent the first three or four days finding gaps where we had failed to spot them. Being Nevern who is something of a character each time he found a hole he set off to find us presumably to inform us of the deficiencies in our fencing. From the point of view of halter training a potential show ram this worked well. Within 3 days he was completely tame and walked beautifully on a halter. But it goes to show that even the smallest gap will be found by some sheep and this is especially true of some of the hill breeds. Plenty of grass and frequent moves to avoid boredom will help.
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Well today we went to see our 2nd/3rd rental feild and it's a go! 4 acres for £200 a year plus a leg of lamb. I'd say that's okay? It's got water and stock proof fence so after my holiday I'll be getting my first sheep! I almost wish the holiday was over already so I can get them now!
We've decided to use the currently un-grassed un-fenced field at the back of the house for lambing. The field itself will be joint with our neighbour who told us with great joy that we could get a 'sit on lawnmower!!!' ... Doh! So me and my pops quietly agreed that we'd only use that to lamb on and let him have his way with it (and pay for it XD) for the rest of the year!
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Well today we went to see our 2nd/3rd rental feild and it's a go! 4 acres for £200 a year plus a leg of lamb. I'd say that's okay? It's got water and stock proof fence so after my holiday I'll be getting my first sheep! I almost wish the holiday was over already so I can get them now!
4 ac could keep about 14 sheep in summer in a good year and about 6 in winter. So; if we assume that 'summer' and 'winter' grazing make up half the year each, it is worth 14 x 26 (weeks) @ 20p/head/week = £72.80 + 6 x 26 (weeks) @20p/head/week = 31.20 is £104 for the whole year.
However, the owner of the land will struggle to find a commercial sheep farmer interested in grazing it (unless he/she lives next to one) - so I'd say pay £100 if you want, but all the grazings I have of that size I graze for no rent and give the owner a lamb (for the freezer) each year.
At 200 quid, assuming you lamb at 180% and have winter grazings elsewhere for your 14 sheep rent free, each lamb has already cost you £8 to produce, before meds, feed etc.
However, it can be hard to get grazing in the first instance, so it might be worth it to get yourself known and get offers of further grazings.
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That's where we're struggling, as around here a lot of the land is horses *grumblegrumble* but he's acquiring more land that will rough grazing so it'll be included in that 200. Which we thinks fair.
He's letting us have his horsey paddock because he's a good guy but after horse money he can't afford to rent it at so little. We see it as getting a foot in the door.
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I just wait until they are sick of getting the place poached to buggery with horses and then I swoop!
Is there an 'evil cackle' emoticon?