The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: holz306 on August 13, 2012, 12:13:46 pm
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Hi guys, you've been so helpfull in the past, i'm looking for a bit of advice again....My pigs are ready to go, so can you talk me through the next step - obviously i need to contact the abattoir which is in Dingwall, but are there any questions i should ask or anything i need to tell them, and can you talk me through the movement papers? I know i need to tag them too, where do you buy tags and applicator, tags in small quantitys? thanks guys
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The movement papers have information on the back. I had to read it about ten times when I took my first pigs in, but it will tell you exactly how to fill them in.
Also, if you have any queries the person at the abattoir will put you right, they all vary in their requirements. Don't be afraid to ask them to repeat things so you can write them down, when you're all of a turmoil it's easy to forget things. They won't mind, you won't be their first first-timers.
Not a happy thing to do, ever, but better if things go a bit smoothly. Good luck :fc: :) :pig:
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First the pigs must have an individual identity, either tattoo, notch, slap mark or tag you slaughterhouse will keep you right, your paperwork can be done online via the scoteid website which then can be printed off from your computor , if this is the first time you have sent animals to slaughter and have not yet registered with scoteid may i suggest you contact them on their number to register, Jenny is very helpful with movement licences and it can all be done by phone or write out a copy for yourself and for the slaughterhouse and keep your copy then either fax or post to scoteid if posted write out another copy for your records. You will also need to have a food chain information sheet to hand to the slaughterhouse also, this contains the info of your vet, your name address admin of medicines etc, sorry to go on. I presume you will have asked what day they kill and remember to book them in. If there is anything you want to know further please ask please pm me.
Lill
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The movement papers have information on the back. I had to read it about ten times when I took my first pigs in, but it will tell you exactly how to fill them in.
Also, if you have any queries the person at the abattoir will put you right, they all vary in their requirements. Don't be afraid to ask them to repeat things so you can write them down, when you're all of a turmoil it's easy to forget things. They won't mind, you won't be their first first-timers.
Not a happy thing to do, ever, but better if things go a bit smoothly. Good luck :fc: :) :pig:
Sylivia ALL movements for pigs are done electronically now, You cannot use paper forms. Holz you will need to register as a producer type aml2 in google and it will bring up the site to get you going despite initial hiccups it is very good for farm to slaughter movements, warning don't ring the helpline from your mobile
Tags you can get from fearings again google them check with your abbattoir what their procedure is andwhich tags they prefer for most its metal tags or slapmarks and check them out on oaklands abbattoir list which will give you some guidance. Most abbattoirs are helpful to first timers. Theres lots of info here on the pig forum if you have time to sift thro the topics
best of luck
Mandy :pig:
ps above is applicable to England & wales didn't realise you were north of the border until Lill posted
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Holz,
As others have recommended, phone your abbattoir. My first lot haven't yet gone to slaughter but are booked in and they were very helpful.
There are previous threads about butchering and which cuts saying they were going to provide a list of their requirements to the abbattoir. The responses from some were that not all abbattoirs like it done this way. After phoning mine he asked me to put a list or my cutting requirements together, so I now feel comfortable in doing that.
Mine will also accept tags or slapmarks so slapmarks they are getting.
Sally
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If you register on the ScotEID site http://scoteid.com/ (http://scoteid.com/) it's really easy to do your movement to slaughter (ask Dingwall what their CPH is - you'll need it to do the movement) there's also a bit on the electronic movement form where you can give the food chain info that's needed (it's mainly to make sure your pigs have exceeded all withdrawal times for medicines before entering the food chain)
Again, check with Dingwall what they prefer ID wise - but we use metal tags, these need to be stamped with your herd number you can buy small quantities from https://www.suppliesforsmallholders.co.uk/qwiksilver-stainless-steel-pig-tag-tags-p-1307.html (https://www.suppliesforsmallholders.co.uk/qwiksilver-stainless-steel-pig-tag-tags-p-1307.html) and SUpplies for Smallholders also do the slapper (£52) if your abattoir prefer this to tags :thumbsup:
Give yourself plenty of time to get them loaded (makes it easier if you can park the trailer at the field gate and feed them in the trailer for a few days before ;)) and get to the abattoir.
Good luck, hope all goes well :fc:
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First the pigs must have an individual identity,
iv only sent birth-notified ones so far since the new reg.. can u not just put the herd number on them, does it have to individual number? ta
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Hi PP, I have all my pigs individualy marked with the number pertaining to that particular pig, the tag has my defra herd, my bpa holding and number of pig so my pig tags have WL0464 WDG 312 etc etc It has actually beeen commented to me that I seem to be one of the few who has the correct ids and paperwork for the pigs at slaughter
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Legally in both Scotland and England and Wales, there is no requirement for individual ID for pigs unless being shown or exported.
The requirement for slaughter is either "an ear tag with the letters "UK" followed by the herdmark of the holding from which it is being moved" or "a tattoo showing that herdmark (with or without the letters "UK")" a tattoo can be a slapmark, see further down.
Additionally in Scotland only "a slapmark showing a unique individual identifier being the herdmark which identifies the holding of departure; or an alpha numeric identifier allocated to the keeper by one of the marketing or processing groups" There are currently three groups; namely, Vion (processing group), Scottish Pig Producers and Scotlean (marketing groups).
A ear tag must be..."(e)sufficiently heat-resistant that neither the ear tag nor the information printed or stamped on it can be damaged by the processing of the carcase following slaughter"
A tattoo "must be applied either by tattoo forceps, in which case it must be on an ear, or by slap-marking equipment, in which case it must be on each shoulder and must, in either case, be easy to read."
Many/Most abattoirs won't accept tatoo's in the ear, some don't accept ear tags, all as far as I know all accept slapmarks, but check.
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Hi PP, I have all my pigs individualy marked with the number pertaining to that particular pig, the tag has my defra herd, my bpa holding and number of pig so my pig tags have WL0464 WDG 312 etc etc It has actually beeen commented to me that I seem to be one of the few who has the correct ids and paperwork for the pigs at slaughter
where do u get eartags that include all the digits? we use the plastic round Z tags but they always miss my 3 letters and just put herd number and individual number. do u use metal tags?
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Fowgill Farm, is this just animals going to slaughter? Have I done the wrong thing in returning the boar and selling weaners with the old paper AML's. I should have thought the folk I returned the boar to (only a few weeks ago) would have known as they keep loads of pigs.
This is all getting a bit too complicated for an old Granny ??? ???
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Sylvia, movement licenses on the computer aren't that bad, even for "an old granny" your words :innocent:
I actually find it hard biting my tongue seeing some of the posts on internet forums and trying not to reply
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Sylvia, movement licenses on the computer aren't that bad, even for "an old granny" your words :innocent:
I actually find it hard biting my tongue seeing some of the posts on internet forums and trying not to reply
Well, fancy that!! A polite reply would surely be better for your tongue :)
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Fowgill Farm, is this just animals going to slaughter? Have I done the wrong thing in returning the boar and selling weaners with the old paper AML's. I should have thought the folk I returned the boar to (only a few weeks ago) would have known as they keep loads of pigs.
This is all getting a bit too complicated for an old Granny ??? ???
Everything is now electronic, but you can phone through in England & Wales, and am sure you can do the same in Scotland, so don't have to use computer.
Both sides of the border are still be tolerant of people using paper, but this will decrease as time goes on.
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Thank you, Oakland pigs.I 'phoned our local abbatoir and was told that they will still accept paper AMLs and that they will let everyone know when this is finally phased out.
How will people who haven't got a computer or any computer knowledge cope?
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How will people who haven't got a computer or any computer knowledge cope?
Badly !
I had a meeting with Defra a while ago to try and put the case for better tolerance for those without PC's who sell weaners regularly, particularly at wekends.
Defra's eventual resposne was "If these particular types of sales are a regular part of a producers business it is not unreasonable to expect them to invest in the necessary IT to comply with the legislation"
Totally ignores that many of these people are salt of the earth farmers, who are simply not IT literate people.
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Oaklands I don't think that DEFRAs attitude is unreasonable, we live in the computer age so people will have to like it or lump it. :sofa:
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Oaklands I don't think that DEFRAs attitude is unreasonable, we live in the computer age so people will have to like it or lump it. :sofa:
Hmm!! How would you feel if you were a 70 year old with the occasional litter of weaners to sell or the odd porker going to the butcher, just to keep in touch with your farming roots, BB? Or is it " Shove over, oldies, us young thrusters fresh from the city (who know it all ::) ) are taking over"
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Sylvia you are using a computer now it is no more difficult doing movements on line than coming on here. My Dad was 82 when he died and loved being on his computer so lets not go down the I'm old I can't do it route. :eyelashes:
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Doesn't just apply to "older" people - many people are unable to use a computer for all sorts of reasons.
I don't think that animal ownership should require computer ownership, or that those without computers should be treated as second class citizens, with much tighter restrictions on ability to move animals.
And why should someone who has no need of a computer have to buy one just because they want to keep pigs?
PS loved the sofa :D
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BB, yes, I can use a computer and will have no trouble doing forms on-line. It's the old folk who have no understanding of modern technology I was talking about. There are folk who can't read 'nor write properly and have had to rely on the bloke at the abattoir to fill in their papers. What will they do? And why should they be worried to death just to make things easier for DEFRA, Trading Standards etc.
By the way, I'm not 70 for a fair few years yet :o or at least not for a few ;) But I do know some dear old farmers who struggle to understand all the new rulings let alone the need for lessons in computers. Do you think they should just give up?
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No it is important that they don't just give up but defra aren't farmers they are just office workers ::)
But I'm sure even small holders and farmers know someone who can operate a computer that will do a deal for a few bacon sandwiches :hungry:
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all movement for pigs is done online now... Metal tags are better as less chance of coming out when the carcass is being cleaned etc but plastic are fine along with a slapmark. Tags & slapmark can usually be purchased via feed store places... im not sure where you are based. Cornwall farmers type places or mole valley can help??