The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Buffy the eggs layer on August 11, 2012, 08:53:42 am
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Will rams live hapily with other rams or will they constantly but heads?
I was wondering if its possible to keep a couple together through the year and put them in with a flock each at mating time?
What do other members do?
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You can, but the ideal is not two but three. Or odd numbers. Two may butt each other constantly, when there's three (or two and a big wether) they can't concentrate on just one other and the whole thing calms down.
I kept a Rough Fell tup and Herdwick tup, plus a Herdie wether, very happily together.
Occasionally you see two Swaledale tups round here with a 2ft chain fastening the left horn of one to the right horn of another - so they can eat and move about but not back up and charge at each other!
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Take care at the reintroducing stage - we always used to pen them up tightly together for an hour, then give them a bit more space but not enough to back up and get a run at each other, until they had got used to each other and each other's smells, then turn them out.
If they are all the same breed, then you should be fine.
There are some do's and don'ts on mixing rams of different breeds, however.
Never run horned tups with polled tups. Swaledales can kill Blue-faced Leicesters all too easily. :'(
And I think you have to be careful mixing aggressive ramming-type breeds with Texels - Beltex & Texel tups tend to fight by shoving and stamping, rather than running and ramming, and don't stamd up well to being rammed by a large Blue-faced Leicester (for instance) with a very hard head running at them from 20 yds away...
I think you have Rylands, Buffy? I am guessing they are more like Texels - not very aggressive and not very good at fighting? Or perhaps I'm just being misled by that cute teddy bear image... :D
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Ach bung them all in together, they'll be grand. We used to keep all the tups in one field, lleyns, texels, chevoits and Scottish blackface of all ages. Up to 40 in one field. My own 4 live together all the time with no problems. The only time I hold them up tight for a few hours is just after they have been shorn to let them settle down, they often fight when they realise that their mates have shrunk, not realising that they too have shrunk! With tupping they are generally only split into small groups for the first turn of the tup after which all the ewes and tups are mixed so there is no worries there either. When tupping I do try to keep them in numbers of 1, 3 or 5 and more but never 2 or 4. Just means that if one ewe is cycling there is an odd tup not scrapping to actually get her in lamb.
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Well, we have had tups kill each other, so I would definitely err on the side of caution, at least until you have some experience of mixing your tups in your system.
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Have heard of it happening, caution is better than replacement every time. Once the tups get to know each other then it becomes much easier.
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Well for what its worth.....I always keep rams in groups, never polled with horned and it works well.The only argy bargy I get is at shearing when they all change shape and have to beat each other up for a while ::)
I often introduce a new ram by just putting him in with the group, its usually the bottom pecking order ram that has a go at the newcomer! I bought another Ouessant ram yesterday and after drenching and clicking him popped him in with 4 other rams and just kept an eye on them for a while. This morning they are all sitting together cudding and he has obviously found his place! My least agressive ram is boss ram...he just has to tilt his head and the others back down so there is obviously something psycological going on too.
I do keep my rams in a totally different place from the ewes and away from any other sheep so it may be that they are more peaceful because the girls are not in sight or smell.
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We do usually chuck all ours in together and let them sort it out. But with us it's more a space issue we haven't got room to let them introduce slowly.
I[size=78%] take your point it is risky and we do watch for flies on split heads from where they do fight. They only need to become a bit sore and the flies will be in there like a shot.[/size]
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Thanks everyone,
it sounds as if most of them can live happily together if they are managed appropriatly but that in some cases the rams can be very agressive.
My Ryelands are a docile polled breed so I would probably get away with it though they would be able to see and smell the ewes.
The odd number thing is really interesting. A similar thing seems to apply to cockerels too.
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I have read a few times that firstly, introduce them together in a small pen....small enough so they can't get a run up to butt and injure each other til they just simply accept each other.
I have had tup lambs and rams run together (only 2 or 3 at a time) - they soon sort it out and generally learn respect. Constantly chasing off the others at tupping time tho can wear out the main ram. I find its the rigs that really p**s my rams off...not the other rams!
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I've got 3 rams in together with 2 wethers. My Ryeland ram Jasper is usually docile but at times he can be just as butty as the others! Definitely not one to turn your back on. He was my sole ram until I bought some Gotland and Zwartbles ram lambs, I put these two in pens next to each other for a while in a stable then put them out in a paddock. They spent the whole of the first day butting each other like hell so I don't actually know if penning them made any difference! But after a few days the pecking order had been sorted (1) Zwartbles 2) Gotland) - mainly by the sheer bulk of the Tas the Zwartbles.
Having watched the antics of these two I wondered how Jasper would get on particularly as he'd had a bad leg - when he went into the paddock it ended up Jasper vs Tas. Buster the Gotland realised he was not up to the size and strength of the other two but he joined in the fight by trying to mate with Jasper while he was busy butting Tas ;D ;D
It didn't take long before Tas conceded that Jasper was the reigning champion and they all settled down peacefully, though not before Buster had tried to mate with the wethers ::) . All are a very happy family at the mo!
They are kept in sight of the ewes but have a dead space between them and there hasn't been any problem.
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We put two of this year's ram lambs (Wilt Horns) in with their dad and they seem to be fine. They had a good old sniff at each other first and then just put their heads down and started eating. They are in a large field but are always close together. Haven't witnessed any head butting etc. but maybe we have been lucky. Our ram is quite tame (for a ram!). I was not aware that there could be any real problems. Perhaps we will be more careful next year when we introduce them.
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A warning from a colleague. Last year they bought in 3 tups (Dorset Down, I think). One killed the other two - and they were brothers always kept together. Her husband is an experienced farmer :-\ :-\ .
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I keep mine all together although none of mine are BFL, which i'm sure woyld be happy to die if another ram so much as looked at them in an agressive manner..... :innocent:
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I keep all my rams together. They may have the odd rumpus, but live quite happily together.
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What would be the chances of my Castlemilk and my shetland rams being ok together - they are both a year old and so far I've not risked it but it would make field management so much easier if they were together ........... any thoughts? thanks
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I think they'd be fine eventually, you've just got to introduce them carefully. Most folk pen them tight, so they can't get a 'run up' at each other to begin with. And obviously keep a close eye on things.
You don't want just two though, better with three. Two can just concentrate on fighting all the time, three breaks that up. When I kept two tups together I kept a wether the same age in with them.
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I have kept my big Suffolk with last year's crossbred tup who will go in freezer this year. He was smaller but always up for a fight. Mostly they get on but we have had to separate them into separate paddocks at shearing and when we move them. Gradually split a paddock with electric and let one in each side, eventually one jumps in with other and they live happily ever after.
Would definitely recommend odd number though and plan to put my youngsters in with Suffolk when crossbreed goes.
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They'll be much the same size, I imagine, and both horned, so they should be fine. As jaykay says, introduce them in a small space at first so they can't get a good run at each other. We used to do it in stages - first crammed together (using a hurdle) for half an hour or so, so they start to get used to each other's smell, then give them room to turn around and have a proper sniff, but not room to ram each other, then maybe 6' square-ish, then, (always assuming they are settled each time you increase the space) 10' x 4' (room to make a bit of a run, but a corner the weaker one can hide his head in), then a small paddock or pen. And not near the ladies for any of this, until they are settled as friends.
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As others have said it is best to pen them up tightly at first. Apart from not being able to take a run at each other they get to rub smells off each other.
My six tups run together from just before lambing until tupping time. There are two horned badgers, two Llanwenogs and two ryeland x. Although it isn't usually a good idea to mix horned and polled, I find it is the oldest polled one who usually takes charge, but without much aggression.