The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: RUSTYME on July 18, 2012, 12:52:03 pm
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Not being a follower of any rituallised religion i am unsure if the title of this thread is right , but as paganism covered many many different 'ways' , it will do .
The american indians did rain dances and i think pagans did too , well i think they were much more in tune with nature . So i am going to become a pagan and get this rain turned off !
Does anyone know where you join ? , pagans r us .com ?
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I think you'll have more success making hay offerings to the Goat Headed God of Goats, very reliable in the uric acid removal department , so i'm told. :fc:
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I have been a pagan most of my life. So no we dont do rain dances. Being a pagan is more of a way of life than a religion, most of us on here are more pagan than you realise, working with nature.
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That's strange.
My children were asking what "pagans" were last night and I couldn't give a very good answer. Wasn't sure that it was a good idea to google it with them.
Any Pagans out there?
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Yes me ITH :eyelashes:
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I agree paganism is a way of life , respecting nature etc. I had a 'white witch' stay in the hostel I look after, he was a very interesting man and very polite , clean and well mannered etc but unfortunately he was persecuted and bullied by some of the locals . I felt very sorry for him but it did show some of the locals in their true colours. I dont follow any religion as it is all poo to me , but if I did it would be paganism.
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Russ, are you dancing now? It seems to be working the sun has just come our.
Sally
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I dont see it as a religion just following the old ways, working with nature and following and worshipping the seasons. Luckily where i live its not ridiculed, i live in Avebury which is a world heritage site, an ancient stone circle. People may think we are a bit strange but hey we dont make up fairy stories and call it a religion. My wife is a pagan High priestess and know we dont worship satan or the devil, in fact we dont believe in it and no sacrifices. :-J
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Ahh..... thanks Fowlman. All I could say was that I thought it was mainly about worshipping nature/ Mother Earth. I think my 13 year old had heard something more to do with sacrifices and the like!
Can I ask if you have any "ceremonies" if that is the right word to use?
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Yes we have many ceremonies/rituals, not obligatory to join in though, some do and some do their own thing. Each one different according to the time of year.
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No rain dances Sally , but i was thinking very hard about it ( swearing actually ! ) , and it stopped here too !
Yes fm i follow the seasons and work with/around the weather , so if i was going to 'be' anything it would be a pagan .
It is the worship bit i have problems with .
As with many things it is ignorance that rules , and many incorrect ideas have evolved , been created , over many years .
Paganism is very interesting though , probably due to the taboo that has been attatched to it .
I must have a read and learn some facts !
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Rustyme ..... swear a bit more, please. Sun came out briefly but going very grey now and I've just let the chicks out. >:( ::)
Fowlman ..... shall read more about it. Thanks.
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The sun came out here too ith , so best not swear anymore atm just incase it makes the sun go away again , i did give the rain a really good mouthfull though , so it should last for a while .
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No rain dances Sally , but i was thinking very hard about it ( swearing actually ! ) , and it stopped here too !
Yes fm i follow the seasons and work with/around the weather , so if i was going to 'be' anything it would be a pagan .
It is the worship bit i have problems with .
As with many things it is ignorance that rules , and many incorrect ideas have evolved , been created , over many years .
When i say worship i dont mean in the same sense as people who worship gods, more admire or respect.
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Yes , i have admiration and respect for nature and try to do no harm , as best i can anyway .
So as you say , partway pagan already .
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I've lots of pagan friends and it has become habit for me to be mindful at most of the pagan dates (all the equinoxes etc) and celebrate all the seasonal happenings. I think if you are in tune with nature, look after what you can, and give thanks for bounty ..... you are pretty in tune with the old ways. Here are the main holidays..
Pagan Holidays:
The Sabbats
Yule (http://www.theurbanpagan.com/yule-winter-solstice.html) (Dec 20-23) - Winter Solstice (http://www.theurbanpagan.com/yule-winter-solstice.html), called Yule (http://www.theurbanpagan.com/yule-winter-solstice.html), is the longest night of the year. It is the start of winter, when the earth sleeps. We celebrate the rebirth of the Sun and the knowledge that spring will come again.
Imbolc (http://www.theurbanpagan.com/imbolc.html) (Feb. 2) - Even more so than Yule (http://www.theurbanpagan.com/yule-winter-solstice.html), Imbolc (http://www.theurbanpagan.com/imbolc.html) is a celebration of light. Falling halfway between Winter Solstice and Vernal Equinox, this is often the time when we begin to see the first signs of Spring. The Sun is reborn, and growing in power, but is not yet at its full strength.
Ostara (http://www.theurbanpagan.com/ostara.html) (March 20-23) - The Vernal (or Spring) Equinox (http://www.theurbanpagan.com/ostara.html), Ostara (http://www.theurbanpagan.com/ostara.html) is a celebration of burgeoning fertility. Spring has begun in full force, and the world is beginning a cycle of renewal. The egg and rabbit are both traditional symbols of Ostara (http://www.theurbanpagan.com/ostara.html).
Beltane (http://www.theurbanpagan.com/beltane.html) (May 1) - Beltane (http://www.theurbanpagan.com/beltane.html), or Mayday (http://www.theurbanpagan.com/beltane.html), is a celebration of sacred union. The vast majority of plants are in flower, and for many animals this is mating season. Along with the celebration and reenactment of the sacred union of God and Goddess, Beltane (http://www.theurbanpagan.com/beltane.html) rituals include Maypole dances, bonfires, and making flower wreaths and bouquets.
Litha (June 20-23) - The Summer Solstice, Litha, is the longest day of the year. It often coincides with the start of the harvest season. Many traditions believe that unlike most Sabbats, Litha is a day of work. Generally lasting from dawn to dusk, this day of work is meant to remind us of the labor of bringing in the first fruit harvests of the year.
Lammas (July 31) - Lammas is the first of the Harvest festivals. It is the time to begin to realize the results of our efforts throughout the year. Traditional foods this time of year include berries and bread made from the first grain harvest.
Mabon (Sept 20-23) - Autumnal (Fall) Equinox, Mabon is the Second Harvest festival. Most of the harvest is in and counted; the people know what they will have to survive through winter. With the first signs of winter beginning to show, people are beginning to finish their tasks for the year.
Samhain (Oct 31) - Samhain marks the end of the harvest for the year. The barriers between the worlds of the living and the dead are thinner than at any other time of the year. Samhain is a time to celebrate and remember those who have passed on from this world.
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Yes it's Lammas next week, any excuse to drink copious amounts of mead :innocent:
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Cheers fib , seeing it written down like that , i see that i pretty well follow those times in feelings and mood (in tune with) , without knowing why . Explains a lot !
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Is there a grant you can get.?
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i can confirm paganism is alive and well in kernow. i was quite impressed when the school included it in the basic religious education. mind you theres lots of us.
tregeseal circle is very special, as is the merry maidens. id thoroughly reccomend everyone to visit sancreed holy well. i go at least yearly.
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I was under the impression that "pagan" was a catch-all term for non/pre-Christian religions? generally earth/nature based. So that Wicca is a pagan religion, but not all pagans are Wiccans?
Well, I like the respect-for-nature aspects but I don't go as far as ceremonies. Now a good party I could get behind :innocent:
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Thanks for that FiB.
I sort of understand the nature bit but googling the term "Pagan" it seems to be a bit of an umbrella term and cover many different ways of worshipping/thinking. Find it a bit confusing ??? Talks of worshipping many Gods, Goddesses, deities, etc. and not always just the nature/earth thing.
Still wouldn't know quite how to explain the term to the children. Find it interesting but can't get my head around it. ::)
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Yep , same here ith . The confusion , mine mainly , just put me off finding out more .
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I was under the impression that "pagan" was a catch-all term for non/pre-Christian religions? generally earth/nature based. So that Wicca is a pagan religion, but not all pagans are Wiccans?
I thought that too... I bet there are as a many interpretations of pre christian traditions and beliefs and religious groups under the banner pagan, as there are denomonations of christian etc. I tell my son its used to describe the old ways and beliefs of this country before christianity hit the shores.
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Yes, probably very complex. Told mine it was from before Christian days but still followed by some today. Would like to have more understanding of it myself but think it would take a bit of doing.
If you work it out Rustyme ..... let me know. ;D
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Will do ith . Will have to find a 'paganism for idiots' book , going for 1p on amazon first though !
I blew my last months budget for books , i brought James Wongs 'grow your own drugs' for 42p !
So will start flogging the heroin soon , ( not really folks , i was JESTING !) .
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To put it simply all of the world were pagan before christianity and Islam an all the other faiths came along, each region had its different views and traditions. I personally don't do the rituals etc but i quite enjoy the parties :innocent:
The celts, saxons and norse followed very similar traditions.
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I reckon all religions are trying to get to the same place. But what happens is that the side stuff, the rituals or whatever that people put in place to make it more likely that other folk would reach the same understanding, take over and become the religion, missing the point entirely.
My take on it is, combining my pagan inclinations with my Methodist upbringing is this:
All of the natural world has something special and unifying about it, which includes humans but that humans usually live unaware of, and apart from, this in the modern world.
That there is way more than can be understood rationally and put into that clumsy way of communicating, words.
That living in a respectful and connected way, is lots more important than what you profess to believe in. That what you do as a result of understanding all this is what matters.
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Spot on jaykay. :thumbsup:
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I like that, Jaykay :thumbsup:
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:wave: from another 'pagan'
There's a couple of different definitions of pagan. Some of them say anything other than Christianity, some say anything other than the book religions or mainstream religions. It is certainly an umbrella term and you are right YorkshireLass that all wiccans will be pagan but not all pagans will be wiccan.
I've given up with putting a name on things (hence the inverted commas above). I identify with many pagans, I follow the wheel of the year, but I am solitary and make my own mind up about things. Think tree hugging hippy might cover me better :-J
Dans
PS and nope no rain dances done here, though I've had a few choice words with the sky about stopping the rain it never seems to listen to me...
PPS very nicely put Jaykay!
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every religion thinks it is the light, when its probably more like a refracted shard, if anyone asks me my religion, i say prismatic. the basis of most religion is the same, from shamanism to christianity, the 'kingdom of heaven' is within each one.
like jaykay said. :)
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I'm more pagan than anything else but as already said, it isn't the same as saying I belong to any one of the specific or individual "religious" beliefs that the umbrella term of paganism covers, including what is known as wicca which in itself has various different traditions as I understand it.. I have training and experience in shamanism, druidry and various spiritual practices drawn from cultures across the globe, including my Christian upbringing, studies of comparative religions at university, practice of some forms of buddhism in my younger days and some revisiting of those more recently.
I put that I'm a pagan on the most recent census form because I'm none of the major religious faiths by definition, and paganism is the closest to what I try and live my physical and spiritual life by - closeness to and respect for natural cycles and honouring all the non-human lives as best I can aswell as doing my best to comprehend and have compassion for the human ones (much harder for me!).
As for the weather, while some "pagan" cultures tried to influence weather to meet their needs, particularly in times of flood or drought, my understanding is that for the most part harmony was achieved by accepting that weather, like much of nature, is not subject to our control and our role is to harmonise and accept it, not the other way around ;) Interestingly when you practise that, it is strange how often the weather meets you half way - I've been at many firewalks in the rain and even in ankle deep snow, but probably almost as many where the heavy rain has stopped for a couple of hours just as we went out to the fire, then started again when we came back indoors ;) I think of it as a relationship rather than one ruling the other, and like many relationships, I gather, the willingness to compromise and co-operate, give as well as take, is what makes it work better.. I'm still no good at that with people but I have come to good terms with nature by now ;D
And after yesterday's torrential rain, where I was concerned the house might float aswell as the coop which was standing in a large puddle most of the day :o today we have blue skies, sunshine and I'm more than happy to watch the flooding subside into the ground as it means the offrun of the field will send water to the end paddock and I won't have to lay the 5 hoses out across the back field to supply the animals there for a few days at least :)
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Lots of us here too :thumbsup: In fact we live in a tiny village with its own Maypole and the celebrations for Beltane are second to none in Offenham :)
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Good answer by Ellied, I live with with a Pagan White Witch who liked you answer and often informs me of the errors of my ways, me been a big hammered tractor driving black hand slug slayeing say what I like northener .
Unlike my previous females and concubines who are in denial of the fact that they were, and still are, Witches.
In fact, our lass is so into her pagan ways, at Easter she set up a shop (part time) called Casting Shadows in the village of Holmfirth, famous from Last of the Summer Wine. Among her wares are books and Wicca artefacts that are on sale. A pal is putting a web site together at the moment.
She told me three year ago that 2012 was going to be a crazy year for the weather and that Earth, "she", is shaking off the negative and moving into the light. That the big boyz and banks will collapse. I will leave it at that but this is what I live with
If I moan about the weather, I get told to work with it.
Paganism is definately about working with nature, predictions is something else ........ woooooooo....... :alpaca:
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:D
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(http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa363/missus-snow/neighborhoodwitch.jpg)
Hail and well met :wave:
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(http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa363/missus-snow/neighborhoodwitch.jpg)
Hail and well met :wave:
Love it :thumbsup:
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Ok , so i live pretty close to the land , work with nature , weather , seasons etc , try to put at least as much back into the land as i take out , try to do as little harm to land and life as possible , and live as free as possible from modern consumer goods . How would that fit into paganism ? Or am i trying to pigeon hole something that can't be ?
Me being me (good or bad) is the only real classification i need , but it would be nice to know where i sit in the scheme of things , from the viewpoint of a real pagan , or at least someone that understands more about it than i do .
I hope that doesn't sound p*ss takey , it isn't meant that way .
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:wave: Doesn't sound p!sstakey at all.
That would fit fairly well in my opinion. If not pagan then certainly 'pagan minded'. And at a pagan gathering you'd likely find many similar folk. You may however also find some people chanting away about the goddess whilst throwing their fag ends in the sheep field. (No disrespect to chanters - I love chanting. Just pointing out that not all respect the land as much as they profess).
It's a bit like me and my partner. He is agnostic, I view nature as sacred and deities as ways of focusing on certain aspects of nature. In all other senses we have the same outlook on life and nature. I class myself as pagan, he doesn't. Most of our pagan friends would however call him pagan, probably right up until the point of deity comes into it.
It is more of a lifestyle for me and a few I know though. I use the term to find others that are likely to be like minded and describe myself to others as someone who may be like minded.
But I agree with you, being you is the only real classification you need, and I think belief is so personal that it's hard to find others that believe exactly as you do.
Hope there's some sense in there I'm in need of my bed.
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Why do people have to " believe " in anything? Gods were invented by man , not the other way round. The big bang is what happened, Evolution is what happened , Organised religion only got empowered by people's ignorance ,hopes and fears, then went on to userp it's power. Do get a grip folk. ???
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Why do people have to " believe " in anything? Gods were invented by man , not the other way round. The big bang is what happened, Evolution is what happened , Organised religion only got empowered by people's ignorance ,hopes and fears, then went on to userp it's power. Do get a grip folk. ???
Because some of us feel there is more than a chemical reaction going on ;)
However the belief in something more magical than the mundane IMO has NOTHING to do with organised religion, that I believe is now all based around money.
Rather than get a grip I fell like I have been gripped by something wonderful, and I'm sticking with this feeling thanks :-* :-* :-* ;D
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The big bang is what happened, Evolution is what happened
absolutely
Why do people have to " believe " in anything? Gods were invented by man , not the other way round
I think the fact that all people everywhere have invented them tells you that they meet some some of need. Given that most people are Es (extroverts, Myers-Briggs) and experience the world through other people, they explain their sense of 'other' or 'something additional’ as beings, aka gods. It's a way to make more explicit something which is hard to otherwise describe and talk about. And Es need to talk about stuff too to understand it better.
I don't like organised religion at all and am not having anyone else telling me what I should believe.
That said, I think minds operate in emotional, intellectual and spiritual ways and I think many Western folk only operate in the first two ways. Our society encourages it, and IMHO that's as 'ignorant' and limiting as believing rigidly in someone else's definition of religion or God.
I don't believe in any sort of deity, certainly not a personal one, but I do think there is an interconnectedness between living things and with the natural world that we can miss out on if we insist on just being busy and 'rational'. You have to be still, quiet and open to the possibility to connect with it. As the Christian tradition has it 'the still, small voice of calm'. Which is why prayer/mediation is such a consistent feature of many religions.
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The general feeling i got from everyone was that they have got a grip , on nature , and don't do the organized thing , that is about money and control.
But speaking for myself , i don't ' need ' anything apart from air , food and water , plus a few bits and bobs that i want !
As for belief , don't you have belief ? Belief in something you can't prove ie the big bang !
Horses for courses really mate .
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I love that jaykay :thumbsup:
But...
I reckon all religions are trying to get to the same place. But what happens is that the side stuff, the rituals or whatever that people put in place to make it more likely that other folk would reach the same understanding, take over and become the religion, missing the point entirely.
One of the things I find hardest to take about some religions is the "chosen people" bit. Those ones are trying to be in a place I don't wanna be. (Or maybe I only think that cos I'm not chosen? :-J)
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I think you will find many pagans don't actually believe in any gods as such, they honour the seasons and nature in general, we cant change nature so we embrace it's wonders and challenges it throws at us. Working with the land and the seasons is something man has been doing long before organised religions came along, being a pagan for me is just a way of life. Ok so i got long hair and a beard :innocent:
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Good answer by Ellied, I live with with a Pagan White Witch who liked you answer and often informs me of the errors of my ways, me been a big hammered tractor driving black hand slug slayeing say what I like northener .
Delighted to have my reply liked and of course my pagan (small p) soul would believe and do what I need to in any case ;) I also say what I like - is there any other kind of northerner?
Rustyme, yes you are - small p - in my opinion anyway. Whether you choose to subscribe to the big P Paganism is a matter of personal choice and of little concern given that the presence or absence, names, natures and requirements of the many many potential deities (or lack thereof) is so flexible as to give infinite options. Call yourself a farmer or smallholder or landworker or lightworker, all the same to me, it's what you do and why you do it that counts ;)
Fowlman, I've got long hair too, but no beard ;D I do have some handmade Peruvian sandals tho, does that count? ;D
Sallyintnorth - there are no chosen people in paganism, only people that choose to be themselves - of course some still make up what they believe about themselves (and their deities), others go in search of themself which they believe can best be done through others telling them their truth ::) , many embark on a lifelong pilgrimage and some hard work - and a few found out exactly who they are and get on with it, let the others be who they think they are or want to be, and don't have to prove themselves right or others wrong to continue being pagan..
OK, I've not spoken to a real person in a few days - can you tell? ;)
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One of the things I find hardest to take about some religions is the "chosen people" bit. Those ones are trying to be in a place I don't wanna be. (Or maybe I only think that cos I'm not chosen
Chosen people as in leaders? So you can pick one that doesn't do this, if you want to. Some folk like there to be 'knowledgeable people in charge' and some of us don't. If you like 'organised religion' then I suppose someone has to organise it. There are enough different ways to suit everyone all I think.
Of course, 'power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely' but then that's the case for any sort of leader, not just religious (ask me how I know ;))
If chosen people as in 'I've got it ('it' being a direct line to God, speaking in tongues, superior spiritual understanding or whatever nonsense) and you peasants haven't', well if only they could see themselves from outside their pious bubble ;) An endless source of amusement :)
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Yeah cheers ellied , been called a little p many times , so you must be right ! ;-)
These days i am content to be me and live off the land as best as possible and cause no harm to others . My gob has a different idea at times though but sticks and stones etc.
Got the beard , but cropped balding grey hair . The waist length black hair went 25 years ago . Apart from that though i think i am more p than anything else , going by what i have read here anyway .
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Fowlman, I've got long hair too, but no beard ;D I do have some handmade Peruvian sandals tho, does that count? ;D
;)
:thumbsup: Ye that will do ;D :-J
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jaykay - I meant "chosen" as in "we are the chosen ones and you, who do not follow - or be born into - our religion are not."
My favourite religious joke is the one about someone dying, going to heaven and being given the guided tour. Throughout the tour, he can see in the distance a very high wall with some writing on it. As the tour takes him nearer, he begins to see that the writing is mainly admonitions to be quiet. "KEEP QUIET", "UTTER SILENCE", "NO NOISE" and the like. He turns a quizzical eyebrow to his guide, who puts his finger to his lips and gestures that he'll talk when they're out of earshot of the wall.
By the time the tour is clear of the wall, he is bursting to know what it's all about. "Oh," says the guide, "behind the wall are the <Catholics | Muslims | Jews > (you can insert the religion of your choice) - they think they're the only ones here."
;D
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jaykay - I meant "chosen" as in "we are the chosen ones and you, who do not follow - or be born into - our religion are not."
Oh well, they're going to find out (as per your joke) that they're wrong aren't they. Anyone who can think that is doing 'trappings of religion and missing the point' so completely that I just don't bother engaging with it/them on that issue - arguing with closed, rigid minds - neither fun nor productive :P
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Yeah cheers ellied , been called a little p many times , so you must be right ! ;-)
OK, I read that last night and have to add to my IT support thread that there is now red wine sprayed all over the keyboard ;D Well very very nearly anyway..
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The movie "Zeitgeist" explains a lot about the bible and it's origins, worth a look if you can get a copy. After I watched it, I realised that I've always been more pagan than christian. The only times I go to church are the fesivals (maybe it's because I like to party) :)
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every bode should have some think to look up to.