The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: mwncigirl on July 08, 2012, 12:06:20 am
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Hi there, what do people generally think about having floors in pig arks?
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We have them in all ours. Look at any land at present with pigs on it, and ask yourself how dry the bed would be without a floor. I use rough timber, though, not plywood, as I find it is less likely (though not without the possibility) to become slippery when wet and mud get on it.
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If your ground gets wet from underneath, you need a floor in the ark.
If it's light well-draining soil, with a water table always well below the surface even in the wettest of winters, then you might get away with it.
Another way I've seen it done is to have the ark under cover - in woodland (but think about how bare its 'roof' will be in winter), or a tarpaulin piggy gazebo - so the rain doesn't fall on or around the ark. (We can't do that here - too windy.)
I do have a weaner house in a raised sheltered spot in an orchard and protected on two sides by high walls where I can get away with no wooden floor - but there's a layer of old tyres under the thick straw bedding, just in case.
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We have identical arks in adjacent runs, the only difference being one has a floor and the other doesn't. Both runs are waterlogged. The ark with a floor has the floor raised about 4" off the ground whilst the other just has the main structure of the ark raised (so the ark timbers themselves don't rot and I can replace the base timbers when needed)
Whilst the ark with the floor is undoubtedly faring better, I have been very pleasantly surprised at just how well the other is doing. I am in the process of making another to the same design .... and that one won't have a floor.
All the arks are 8' x 8' so their is lots of room but they do also take a lot of straw!
Pete
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I have an ark that doesn't have a floor.
It doesn't get wet in itself as such but the pigs are very muddy and I keep adding straw to make it more comfortable for them. This is the first time I have kept pigs so I don't have anything to compare to but the awful weather can't be helping.
Once my weaners have gone, in Sept, we might add a floor, only because I think it will make it easier to clear out the old straw before adding new.
Sally
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We have some with and some without, the one's with floors are definately drier.
The arcs used by my 'big' pigs don't have floors and the pigs have actually hollowed the ground below it and made a wattle and daub effect around the inside so it's quite dry.
I've made temporary floors for the other arcs by using heavy, solid pallets and covering the tops with extra sheets of wood, then a piece of non-slip rubber. I only use this for the Kunekunes though because I worry about the weight of the bigger pigs on them and how strong/safe they would be for them. It's working well for them though ;)
HTH
Karen
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We have one with floor and are constantly adding straw as it all gets kicked out. We've just got some more pigs and this ark won't have a floor. Its so wet out I hate the thought of a soggy floor but reckon they will make a comfy bed. I know there are pros and cons of both...... but wanted to make sure I just wasn't being soft!!
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Pig arks should not have floors.
No commercial arks have floors and that is not due to cost.
Take a look at the reasons why at the bottom of the page on our "Pig Ark Options" info page.
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We have one with and one without. The one with is drier and requires topping up with straw much less often. The floor is a separate item to the ark so moving the ark is not hindered by it and nor is cleaning. You just roll the top off, clean the floor, move it to the new location and drop the body of the ark back on top. A fixed floor would be a pain in the arse.
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Thanks supplies for smallholders, I think I am beginning to agree.
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For those who can't find the info on our site, below is the paragraph I refer to:
Do your Arks have floors, I've been told I need a floor? Absolutely not, we would never put a floor in a Pig Ark. This is for a number of reasons as follows:
- Floors harbour bacteria within the hut therefore the health status will drop as will animal welfare as the risk of disease increases.
- In Farrowing Huts, floors generally lead to an increase in mortality because the surface is much harder resulting in more piglets being crushed.
- Floors offer the perfect environment for harbouring vermin beneath the Ark increasing the chance of disease.
- Floors will actually encourage draughts and they certainly wont be air tight so will be colder. A conventional Ark with no floor and straw bedding will seal against the ground.
- Whilst floors will reduce straw useage, in Farrowing Huts, the sows natural nesting instincts will be limited without straw bedding and without the straw, the pigs will not stay as warm.
- Doorways with floors will become more slippery increasing the chance of lameness in both sows and piglets alike.
- Arks with floors are much more labour intensive than those without.
To most people floors seem logical however experience has proved them to be detrimental. No commercial pigs are bred within Arks with floors for the reasons outlined above. If they were an advantage, every Ark would have one.
Thanks
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My arks are floorless, I put stable mats in them in wet weather and in winter. This was a reccomendation by the boy who made them and seems to work very well :pig:
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But how do you stop the mud and rain oozing under the walls and turning into a quagmire like outside? Or does the straw around the edges block it off? Tamsaddle
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I'm sorry but I don't agree with most of your reasons SFS. All my arks have floors and all my arks are made from timber so if bugs are in the floor they are in the walls as well. Some of my sows farrow outside ,some I bring in to the stables which have concrete floors with stable mats and I have very few casualties.
The main problem I had with arks without floors was that the pigs would dig down into the ground and when we had a lot of rain they would have an indoor swimming pool. I think the advantages far outway the disadvantages.
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My ark does not have a built in floor but it is on concrete. its easy to clean and we move it every now and again. They get plenty of straw to keep them warm.
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We like the floors too :thumbsup:
Granted if I was in a milder, drier climate I probably wouldn't need them as much ::) but until I win the lottery and emmigrate to Barbados or somewhere I'm sticking with mine ;)
We do move them regularly though and wash down everything at the same time :thumbsup:
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As a manufacturer of arks, we always recommend a floor, although we sell both and have used both. In devon we did not have floors, the ground inside the ark would be dry whilst the ground outside would be mud. In Scotland we had to use floors and we used removable floors, the top would be taken off and the whole thing pressure washed and disinfected.
In answer to SFS reasons for not having a floor, I I disagree. First floors should not harbour bacteria if proper cleaning methods are carried out. For that reason removable floors are better, they can be detached and cleaned thoroughly.
We have farrowed many sows in farrowing arks and never lost a piglet due to been squashed, a hard floor makes no difference, in that case why would some breeders farrowing in farrowing sheds where the floor is concrete.
Yes vermin can live under arks, but it is up to the pig owner to keep on top of it and move the ark regularly to prevent rats etc settling. If there is a problem then it should be sorted asap by whatever method suits.
Arks with floor are definately not colder than arks without floors. In any case an ark without a floor will not seal against water seeping into the ark.
Bedding should always be used in an ark especially when farrowing and floor or no floor, enough bedding should be used to keep the animals warm. Even with a floor we pile in the straw.
In winter straw should be piled around the doorway outside to allow the pigs to wipe their feet before they enter the ark. You will see many commercial farms do this for this reason, to keep the inside of the ark dry and not wet.
Hope this helps
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Interesting debate, and suspect there is no right answer in all cases.
SfS mentions that commercial arks don't have floors, but most outdoor commercial setups will be on sandy soil, not the clay that we have.
Commercial setups will also move arks more frequently using front-loading tractors, and not want the bother of internal cleaning. Small setups may not have the moving equipment and can take the time to clean floors, not an expense a commercial set up can afford.
Commercial setups tend to be high density and quantity, so potential disease is more of a problem - our two commercial arks are made from steel frames and ends with twin coverings of curved sheeting, allowing good cleaning and disinfection. The majority of smallholders have low stocking densities, and wood ends on the arks, so a wood floor does not really make a deal of difference in adding risk where wood is already present and stocking density is low.
All our arks have floors, and we have never had a vermin problem.
SfS is correct that some ark manufacturers use plywood for flooring and this can cause slips and strains when wet, so we don't use ply, but if you have ply it needs to be well strawed to prevent this.
Didn't really understand the draft argument, so can't comment of that other than I see no reason why a floored ark should be draftier than one that sits on uneven soil - if you add straw both would surely be the same?
I also don't see why having a floor means you can't provide straw for a farrowing sow to nest with - we farrow on concrete in sheds and have no problems in the sows nesting - one is doing it right now.
Nor do I agree that a solid floor increases crushing over straw one - doesn't matter whether you are lying on the bedroom floor or on a silent night mattress, you'll still be crushed or suffocated if something several hundred times your size and weight sits on you.
Many of our arks have Pallet floors - these are made from taking the planks from one pallet and nailing them over the gaps in another creating what is called castle boarding sort of viewed edge on _-_-_-_. These are loose fitted in - ie you just put 4 to 6 or so (dependant on ark size) in the middle, rather like having a large rug in a room rather than fitted carpets. The pigs don't mind the castle boarding at all, and with a little bit of straw it disappears anyway. This lifts the pigs out of the mud, and off cold ground, whilst letting you easily clean by lifting the ark away, either with our tractor for the heavier ones or with the carbery arks we have some of you just flip the ark away.
Whilst SfS points out some valid reasons for not having floors - time, possible bacteria, possible vermin, and these should be considered, their are positive factors such as rasing the pigs up from wet ground and in winter raising pigs up from frozen ground that make it worth considering.
However as I said at the beginning, there are no universal right answers and everyone should consider all the arguments. For us floors are needed, and have no proved an issue.
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Good post, oaklands :thumbsup: You haven't really left me much to say - I had been going to say the same as you about the commercial folks keeping their pigs on ground suitable for pigs without having to put floors in their arks, whereas we hobby and small pig keepers can't always have the best ground for them.
If I didn't have a floor to my ark, the pigs would indeed have an indoor swimming pool at times - hence the comment I made further back about whether the water all comes from the sky or whether some of it comes up from waterlogged ground.
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What an interesting debate....
All I pointed out was the commercial side of things, where like it or not welfare is more closely monitored than on any smallholding.
If people feel that their pigs would be happier in an ark with a floor then go for it.
By the way, the reasons for no-floor were not mine, they were reproduced from our site where they were taken (with permission) from our supplier, who is probably the UK's largest manufacturer of commercial farrowing huts / weaner houses / dry sow arks etc and whos housing is used in the larger UK and overseas pig units.
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But how do you stop the mud and rain oozing under the walls and turning into a quagmire like outside? Or does the straw around the edges block it off? Tamsaddle
Tamsaddle, I find the stable mats are a bit big for my arks and turn up a bit at the sides. I went into one today to test it and found it lovely and dry.
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Well I had no idea what a comprehensive and full debate I was starting!! I guess, as with most things it is 'what suits' re: land, local climate etc. Thanks everyone for your contribution.