The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: Dan on July 06, 2012, 01:35:22 pm
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Hello everyone
Recently we have had a small number of 'fallings out' on the forum, and I wanted to post something to give a perspective from Rosemary and I, as creators and curators of TAS.
(Many of you will have absolutely no idea what I'm going on about - I'm referring to a tiny percentage of the activity on here that for one reason or another becomes tense or fractious - the vast majority of activity is helpful, supportive, smallholding-related discussion, with banter and personal goings-on in the Coffee Lounge.)
We see TAS as an extension of our home and our smallholding, even though it's grown well beyond what we ever imagined it might. And we see you all in some small way as guests in our home, and although we can't read or participate in every thread (although Rosemary seems to try sometimes :D ) we have an emotional and personal investment in everything that goes on here. You can dismiss that as twee and sentimental if you wish, but it's our truth.
We try to be even-handed and fair in our moderation of the forum, and sometimes that means biting of tongues, turning a blind eye, and trying to interpret what people were trying to say when they posted that. As has been said many times before on here, email and other electronic communications are inadequate for expressing the range of emotions we all feel (even me ;) ) and misunderstandings are inevitable. Fallings out happen. What really pees me off (and upsets the boss) is when members treat TAS as a channel for personal grievances, belittle others, or show no respect to members (including us).
It is perfectly possible to help people without being patronising, initmidating, controversial or aggressive, it just takes a little thought and communication. To trot out some more hackneyed phrases, no one was born knowing this stuff, and the only stupid questions are the ones you don't ask. :)
We love having you all here and would hate to lose anyone else. What we really, really want is for everyone to pause for thought before posting anything personal, aggressive, or deliberately provocative, and ask themselves whether they would behave that way in person, in a social gathering, in someone else's house. If the answer's 'no' then please don't post it.
Thanks,
Dan
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can we have a smilie ' take my hat off to you ' :eyelashes:
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Well said that man :thumbsup:
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:love: :love:
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I get back from a week away and you've all gone mad.
Its a forum, people argue, people move on...
This is the least hostile friendliest forum i belong to, and i belong to several...
Please all be nice my head hurts just reading through the stuff i missed...
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Thank you Dan, very nicely put.
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:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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But can i still have a hanging tree ? Please !
If not a pole , as mentioned by Robert , for the placement of loose heads will do .
Seriously though , everyone should be like me , sweetness and light ,gentle and inoffensive , oh and always right !
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As ever, Dan and Rosemary, I am in awe of all that you do and how intelligently and sensitively you moderate this forum.
You know already what a valuable resource I think it is, and how grateful I am to you for your energy and commitment in running it.
:bouquet: :bouquet: :trophy: :trophy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :-* :-* :-*
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I think you do an amazing job running the forum - it can't be easy at all. I hate confrontations they make me do this - :sofa:
Russ behave ;D
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But Plums , i always do !
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I think it's great the way the forum is run, and am amazed how the number of members have grown. :)
I try to keep my head done and just give snippets of advise when I can to help the ones who need it. We all have to learn at some stage and there will always be difference of opinions, please keep it lighthearted. :thumbsup:
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It's been a bit like family falling out and not nice :( :(
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Well said that man. As a rule, this forum is exceptional in the quality of its members and mods. And remember, there's nothing more pointless than an internet argument. ;D
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Dbg2riW8Tig/T-kEMLceswI/AAAAAAAAAJ8/yFxO0VV5Z0M/s1600/internet+argument.jpg)
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I love being a guest in your house ;D ;D ;D
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They are rather slow at bringing the coffee round though ;D ;D
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They are rather slow at bringing the coffee round though ;D ;D
no one can accuse Rosemary or Dan of being slow with the drinks, admittedly its predominantly tea, but there is plenty of it :-)
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They are rather slow at bringing the coffee round though ;D ;D
Lol- love it! And to be perfectly honest, I love Rosemary and Dan too ;)
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As said beautifully put Dan.........
Having read the aftermath i'm glad i'm a bit eyes wide shut
OH and i always find this to be a very forgiving helpful and well informed place to put your feet up
long may it continue :trophy:
i prefer wine.......and ice cream to coffee :eyelashes: ;)
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I'm sorry for my outburst :-[
Will try and be on my best behaviour from now on ;) :fc:
I love TAS and all that it's about :thumbsup:
Karen x
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Shenanigans is a wonderful word though isn't it?
I'm so glad that Dan chose it for the subject title on this post, I've had 'sheepy shenanigans' running through my head all afternoon while I tried to find errant lambs (again) ;D
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I have always thought that this board is very warm and welcoming, and in a relatively short time, I have made many internet friends.(At least I hope I have!)
I remember last year I posted something on another forum, complaining about our local hunt leading its dogs over our front garden not 50 years from our front door. I thought I may have got a bit of sympathy, all I got was abuse about how I should be ashamed of myself, how I give the Brits a bad name in France and that I was making a fuss about nothing. I was so upset as having the goats and my chooks I was obviously worried for my animal's safety as I'd previously lost chooks to a hunt dog belonging to a neighbour.
Since that episode, I have never posted on that forum, but it just goes to show how people see things so differently, however the comments made about me were way over the top, were very hurtful (and were later deleted!). Well done Dan, you are one sound bloke and you do a grand job!!
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Well said Dan and Rosemary from me too - I to understand the internet is not like sitting in the same room as someone and try to make allowances for that in my posting and replies and will continue to try too - on a lighter note can't wait to meet lots of you at the smaller holder show - yippie roll on September - actually not too soon I'll be yet another year older!!!
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It's a really good point that it can be very difficult to know what people really mean by their posts sometimes. I agree with what others have said that this is a lovely friendly forum and personally I don't often bother going elsewhere these days as I've always had such excellent advice on here.
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I take this forum extremely seriously: that's because most others do too. Dan & Rosemary provide a sense of ownership which makes a lot of difference.
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I take this forum extremely seriously: that's because most others do too. Dan & Rosemary provide a sense of ownership which makes a lot of difference.
here here!!! :trophy: ;D
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This is such a great forum and mainly people are so helpful and positive.
This is what I find useful: There are the facts. Someone posted what they did. Then there is the interpretation of what they meant or the motivation behind them posting that. The interpretation isn't the fact and there is always more than one possible interpretation or motive behind it. A very good friend of mine once said 'I assume the most positive motivation possible when I don't actually know'. Which I thought was a pretty good plan :thumbsup: Even making yourself think of other possible motivations, as well as the one you instantly 'felt', tends to calm things down.
'course, I don't always manage this - but when I remember it, things turn out better ;)
Also:
We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are.
Anais Nin
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Just wanted to add - A big thanks to Dan and Rosemary, it's a great site, the first thing I look at when I switch on,
The advice and knowledge I pick up on these forums has been so useful, giving me ideas to work on and perhaps even saving animals lives. There is always someone who has been there, done that, who are gererous with their advice.
I have to admit, I'm totally confused by the 'shenanigans', I'm obviously missing something but I'm happy not to know, but it puts Dan and Rosemary in a difficult place at times, I think they handle things very well, it's deciding when to call 'stop' to a thread that must be hard.
Perhaps the people concerned should try and think what image their posts are giving out about themselves, it can't be good all this backbiting.
I do hope I've never upset anybody, it would be unintentional if I do, I think I would prefer I quiet pm to give me the heads up so I could try and put things right.
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I to think this is a great site and I have learnt an awful lot since being on here and hopefully have helped some also.
I think we have to be careful about making a sterile environment where people are wary of voicing an opinion because it might upset someone. I think it is the downside of the internet that people lose the art of talking to people in person and become rude without meaning to be. :wave:
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Though it's one thing to voice an opinion (politely!) and quite another to bring a personal issue on here.
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that is the nub of it sylvia.
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Personal issues are fine - members are generally very supportive of people's problems, and the forum has been a friend to many.
To my mind what is unacceptable is squabbling between members. We are all entitled to our views, but voicing them is sometime unwise. If it would be rude said face-to-face then it should not appear here. But it is perfectly possible to disagree without being brutal or to point out relevant facts without suggesting that someone is stupid.
Unless they're a politician or a banker! (SORRY, sound of smack)
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I have the answer .: Dan should open a new category. " THE PMS DEPARTMENT " It will have a "VENT YOUR SPLEEN " sub box , and a men keep out sign . comes with a mop and bucket for wiping blood off the walls :innocent:
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Bringing in squabbles from "outside" is not only confusing for those of us who don't know any of you "offline", it creates a bad atmosphere and "taints" the entire forum if not nipped in the bud. In my experience, once one nasty thread has occurred, it somehow breaks the ice and leads to more b*tching (if you'll forgive the phrase).
I hope this has been caught in time :fc:
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I've managed to miss all the recent "shenanigans" - wonderful word Dan ;) which is just as well I reckon :)
I nearly left this forum a while back after someone attacked a post I made that was I felt uncalled for, I was excited about something and felt slapped in the face by a complete stranger so I just shut up for a while and stopped posting anything personal rather than strictly animal practicalities which I felt was a shame but the only safe way to proceed. I chose not to leave because I value the information resource, particularly on chook matters where I have only a year experience and blessed little expertise ::) so just changed my use of the forum for a while.
I reckon being at home when posting gives us all a sense of being among family and friends, and as we maybe meet a few members in "real life" we post as if we know everyone else too, and maybe share too much sometimes to be really as safe as we imagine given all the members we won't know or know how they'll react.. The forum is primarily about smallholding which is so integral to most of our lives, or a dream for others, that we do feel passionately about it, both when we find folk that share our passion and, sometimes, those who feel passionately but don't share our opinion :o Our lives are so woven into our work that it is harder to separate what is "personal" and not post about it ::) and that leaves us vulnerable to taking things personally because they feel that way.
I've been a member of another forum since it started and always felt safe being myself there despite the growth of membership, until recently when I fell out with someone outside forum territory, in a very brief encounter, a newcomer I'd never met but trusted as "a member, one of us" and shouldn't have. The external situation is now resolved, but bad feeling remains on both sides and while I've tried to be careful not to post on her threads in case it is inflammatory, and frankly because I want nothing to do with her opinions or experiences, she has felt it necessary to post attacking me overtly and responding to my own threads with snide comments, further allegations and basically calling me a liar at every opportunity even where she could not possibly know what I had been thinking or what decisions I'd discussed with others but not herself :o I complained and all these threads have been deleted but it leaves me unwilling to post where she has or might, and unable to say anything directly related to my experience or opinions because I know for sure she'll be there with a dagger ::)
I've been thinking hard about it since, hence this post ;) but am coming to the conclusion that, as a passionate and perhaps occasionally opinionated person :o it may do me good to spend some time purely supporting others or providing information on some topics, but putting in nothing personal whatsoever. It's a challenge to my ego as in some cases I reckon I "know the answer" or have valid experience to share and to choose not to do so is unusual - but hey, unusual is good sometimes right? Maybe I'll become a better person for not having so much to say about myself ::) :fc: At least on here I know I know much less than most, where there I feel slightly more knowledgeable in areas I've spent 25 years actively and my whole life to some degree, pursuing as a "lifes work". Until now anyway, at this point I reckon that dream has been achieved, lived and is coming to an end. So much still to learn about the other aspects of my life, so many questions and right now they're about baldy chickens, infected plum tree and decimated brassicas so I'm here looking for answers and trying to keep my head down on the personal front (for a while anyway ;) )
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Like you, Dan and Rosemary, my OH and I 'host' a forum. Ours is a motorcycle forum. It grew out of a much, much larger forum where the behaviour had deteriorated to the point of it being an unpleasant environment to be in. Part of the problem there was mis-moderation in our opinion.
The forum my OH set up he decided would be 'without moderation' or 'self-moderated' and people know that - they know that noone will come in and sort out the fisticuffs or bullying. Interestingly, on the occasions when someone has stepped out of line, the whole forum has rounded on them. Threads are not locked, people are not thrown out or reprimanded by the forum's 'parents'. It's another way, and I don't think it is a system that can be introduced half way through a forum's life. I just thought you might be interested that there are other ways.
Personally, and as a relative newcomer, I want to thank you for all the time and effort you have put into hosting us all here. I see your presence as moderators and hosts in a very positive light, and feel you do a good job of 'parenting' the site - like posting this thread (an appropriate place for those who want to to speak out n the subject). I have learned a great deal, feel supported in a way that i can't imagine new smallholders ever had access to feeling before a forum like this, and am simply enjoying getting to know folk here better.
Many thanks from me and him and all at Cinderhill Farm :pig: :chook: :dog: :goat: :sheep: :&> :cat:
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Great mail ellied.
Where there are 10 different people there will be 10 different opinions but personal attacks are not on.
Lets all try to stick to the reason this forum exists, our smallholdings or dreams of having one.
Sally
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Well said Dan. I have always felt welcome on this site and I intend being a permanent guest in your home. :thumbsup:
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This rang so true for me ........ Apart from the bit about chickens. ;D
Had it not been for a couple of PM's to support me I'd have given up and been gone. Judging by one PM it's quite possible that some people could feel bullied, :-[ but we also have some kind, talented,suportive people out there ....... I thank you for your constructive advice about my sheep. And to Dan, well done on a forum which is such a help to so many on everything from animals to punctuation. :pig: :chook: :sheep: ' (apostrophe)
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Quote.
[/color]I nearly left this forum a while back after someone attacked a post I made that was I felt uncalled for, I was excited about something and felt slapped in the face by a complete stranger so I just shut up for a while and stopped posting anything personal rather than strictly animal practicalities which I felt was a shame but the only safe way to proceed. I chose not to leave because I value the information resource, particularly on chook matters where I have only a year experience and blessed little expertise so just changed my use of the forum for a while.
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with regard to posts on any forum - try and remember a saying about beekeepers
find a group of 5 up to over a hundred beekeepers and ask the same question to all of them about how to do sumthing with beekeeping and you will get as many answers as their are people.
how fun, listen to what people say and do what you think may work for you ..
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Just another thought
I don't know it it was in TAS, but somewhere I've seen a sentence, the same sentence a few times wth different words emphasised(sp).
This gave each sentence a completely different meaning, maybe we could look at whether we emphasise the right words when reading posts?
Obviously not knowing the original 'problems' I don't know if this applies in this instance
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Just another thought
I don't know it it was in TAS, but somewhere I've seen a sentence, the same sentence a few times wth different words emphasised(sp).
This gave each sentence a completely different meaning, maybe we could look at whether we emphasise the right words when reading posts?
'Twas Sally and it's great - http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=18171 (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=18171) :)
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Just another thought
I don't know it it was in TAS, but somewhere I've seen a sentence, the same sentence a few times wth different words emphasised(sp).
This gave each sentence a completely different meaning, maybe we could look at whether we emphasise the right words when reading posts?
'Twas Sally and it's great - http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=18171 (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=18171) :)
Brilliant. :thumbsup:
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Yep, thanks, that's the one, makes you think doesn't it?
(As I said, theres always someone who can help you out) ;D :thumbsup:
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I am a relative newby and don't have a great deal of time to actually participate - certainly not every day, but I do try! lol I have actually missed everything and have no idea what has gone on, apart from people leaving.
I belong to a few forums, and have to say, I leave the ones that I don't feel comfortable. I have faaar to much going on to be worrying about arguments in a virtual world. I do think that this one is fairly friendly. There are a few people who speak their mind and have strong views, but I think you get that everywhere, be it in a virtual world or the real one.
I do think that a PMS department is a great one cos I just go loony every month, and everyone around me, knows to staaaaay away! lol
Helen
ps, keep up the good work!
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I do think that a PMS department is a great one cos I just go loony every month, and everyone around me, knows to staaaaay away! lol
I've told this story before, but hey - some of you won't have heard it yet.
Years ago, I had my own little company with offices in what had once been a nice old 3-bedroomed semi and was now a characterful 'office block'. My office was what would have been the 3rd bedroom; I kept the door open, always ready for anyone to come and chat, unless I was busy concentrating on something. Then the door would be shut but the team knew they should still knock and come in if there was anything needed discussion there and then.
One day I had all morning undisturbed. Now, this never happened, but I was grateful although slightly bemused. Until, that was, I returned to my office after going down to the kitchen to fetch a cup of coffee. Pinned to my door was a picture of a tiger, with the caption,
"I have PMS and a handgun. Now, what was the question?"
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;D ;D ;D
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lol, I need one of those!
Helen
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Hello everyone
Recently we have had a small number of 'fallings out' on the forum, and I wanted to post something to give a perspective from Rosemary and I, as creators and curators of TAS.
(Many of you will have absolutely no idea what I'm going on about - I'm referring to a tiny percentage of the activity on here that for one reason or another becomes tense or fractious - the vast majority of activity is helpful, supportive, smallholding-related discussion, with banter and personal goings-on in the Coffee Lounge.)
We see TAS as an extension of our home and our smallholding, even though it's grown well beyond what we ever imagined it might. And we see you all in some small way as guests in our home, and although we can't read or participate in every thread (although Rosemary seems to try sometimes :D ) we have an emotional and personal investment in everything that goes on here. You can dismiss that as twee and sentimental if you wish, but it's our truth.
We try to be even-handed and fair in our moderation of the forum, and sometimes that means biting of tongues, turning a blind eye, and trying to interpret what people were trying to say when they posted that. As has been said many times before on here, email and other electronic communications are inadequate for expressing the range of emotions we all feel (even me ;) ) and misunderstandings are inevitable. Fallings out happen. What really pees me off (and upsets the boss) is when members treat TAS as a channel for personal grievances, belittle others, or show no respect to members (including us).
It is perfectly possible to help people without being patronising, initmidating, controversial or aggressive, it just takes a little thought and communication. To trot out some more hackneyed phrases, no one was born knowing this stuff, and the only stupid questions are the ones you don't ask. :)
We love having you all here and would hate to lose anyone else. What we really, really want is for everyone to pause for thought before posting anything personal, aggressive, or deliberately provocative, and ask themselves whether they would behave that way in person, in a social gathering, in someone else's house. If the answer's 'no' then please don't post it.
Thanks,
Dan
Rosemary & Dan,I am so Sorry,I admittedly saw and replied to the other post's without thinking,but then,I am not thinking straight at the moment. I have to agree with you regards site is personal to you both,and really for most of us whom would be lost without the help of each other here,there is no excuse for being untoward,whether in person or over the web.I do hope I have not upset any tasers! :'(