The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: VSS on July 03, 2012, 02:43:30 pm
-
We recently had a litter of pedigree OSBs born with the view of keeping a couple of gilts to register as replacements because both of our sows are getting on a bit.
Having researched this I find it is going to cost me £60 to join the BPA in order to be able to register these piglets :o . OH phoned them this morning to find out if that was really the case as it seems so unreasonably expensive. He was told that it doesn't cost that much - you pay £60 to join and you get 1 free registration as part of the package. The second one will cost an additional £6 - £8 to register.
What are they trying to do? I could buy in a weaner gilt for that price!! Come on BPA what are you thinking of! >:(
-
Trouble is the BPA isn't cost affective if you only register 1 or 2 pigs every now and then. To be honest I don't even think you get value for money however many you breed or register but they have you by the proverbials. :o
-
vss is it as easy as you say to get your piglets registered are your sows registered and when did you buy them did the previous owner or breeder birth note them and register them are they in your name
it is funny how it is allways the BPA that is to blame when procedure is not followed how much does it cost to join a sheep breed society and you cant breed them and sell them with out being registered :farmer:
-
we have a fair different breeds/species. by the time u have joined all the societys and paid the fees, it does add up. thats just to get them registered so u can sell them. >:( >:( >:(
-
vss is it as easy as you say to get your piglets registered are your sows registered and when did you buy them did the previous owner or breeder birth note them and register them are they in your name
Yes both of our sows are fully registered and so is the boar - papers are all fully in order so no difficulty there. It is just an issue of cost making it better value for us to go out and buy replacements than to bred and register our own. Doesn't make any sense to me at all.
how much does it cost to join a sheep breed society and you cant breed them and sell them with out being registered :farmer:
The sheep breed society I work with charges a basic membership subscription of £25 per annum and it costs £5 to register each female. That is quite a bit less than the BPA are asking for.
-
Let's add to the controversy.
If you're not planning on selling any of the weaners to people who would want to breed, then there is no reason why you need to register. You could quite happily sell the weaners from your unregistered OSBs as OSB type weaners to people who want meat pigs.
This is no different to selling puppies from dogs who are not registered with the kennel club.
The vast majority of purchasers of our weaners simply want meat pigs, so don't care whether mums are registered or not, they look for conformation, health and attractive looking pigs - in fact many of our crossbreds sell better than the purebreds as they mixing throw really interestingly marked pigs.
-
i have to join the rbst to register my borerays, thats £40 pa, then the bagot goat society £15, then the Shetland cattle herdbook £15 (i think) and highland pony £25, then the reg/passport/microchip fees on top in some cases! plus £60 for bpa.
rabbits were just as bad....
it does all add up >:(
-
went on the bpa website today up to two sows registered membership is £60 free birth notes and free registrations for herd replacements others will be charged :farmer:
-
If you look at it closely it allows you one free registration per year - herd replacement rate of 50%. So it is still going to cost you £60 to register one gilt.
-
I'm one of the pig owners that oaklandpigs described. I don't give a hoot about family lines, registration etc. A pig is a pig - a chop is a chop. Sounds like you are being ripped off by a group that offers you vey little in return for the fees.
-
A PIG IS A PIG - A CHOP IS A CHOP !! Well - what have you been eating - because my Tamworths , GOS, Berkshires and Cul Noir each have a different taste and texture. I DO CARE ABOUT FAMILY BLOOD LINES -otherwise you will end up breeding brothers with sisters and losing the integrity of the rare breeds. Without Pedigree stock the breeds won't survive.
Poor control of breeding and lack of understanding of bloodlines is causing real issues with GOS in France and according to our French vet the same problem exists with French rare breeds.
-
Sounds like a "rock & a hard place" to me. Still don't understand why it's so expensive ??? The BKKPS is nowhere near the BPA membership fee - though Breed Registration is the same at £8 per head (£3.50 for "pets") & "litter notifications" are free.
Surely the larger the organisation, the lower cost of overheads per member/breeder ???
:love: :pig: :love:
-
Berkshire Pig Society is only £20/25.
http://www.berkshirepigs.org.uk/MembershipApplication.pdf (http://www.berkshirepigs.org.uk/MembershipApplication.pdf)
Now know why they are outside the BPA.
-
there is pedigree stock in Scotland you just have to do a bit of searching maybe not all the breeds are covered even in England they are not on every street corner :farmer:
-
smudger that is only a breed club the BPA run the registrations for the berkshire :farmer:
-
The BPA has us over a barrel on this one - unless you breed KKs or British Lops, you have to pay their fees or you can't birth notify nor register any offspring as pedigree.
The charges were massively hiked up over a year ago, with no notice nor consultation, and we've all suffered as a consequence. The BPA answer to the increased charges (at a time when the recession was biting and feed prices were soaring)? "Pass the extra cost onto your customers." Not helpful.
Unfortunately, none of the breed clubs which have their herd books managed by the BPA was willing to fight against the decision on behalf of members, so everything petered out.
What was their justification for it Liz?
-
What was their justification for it Liz?
The BPA said that they had not raised fees for many years, and needed to keep up with inflation. They ignores their substantial reserves, and did no work as far as I could see to reduce costs. One could argue for instance as to why the BPA needs to have someone who spends much of their time abroad promoting british rare breeds. However the BPA simply ignores critisism.
-
Unfortunately, none of the breed clubs which have their herd books managed by the BPA was willing to fight against the decision on behalf of members, so everything petered out.
Not strictly true, the reason the breed clubs can't or won't upset the apple cart is that if they exit from the BPA they lose ALL the history of their breed as the BPA owns(a done deal many years ago when the NPA & BPA sort of amalagamated) the herd books of each individual breed so it would mean starting the herd books from scratch! The other thing is the apathy amongst breed society members, the GOS club has more than 350 members but its the same handful approx 30 who get involved in committee, AGm & events. The BPA has us over a barrel and they know it, there is no alternative place to register pigs.
Mandy :pig:
-
And to top it all off, the BPA website is quite useless. Almost every time I try to do anything on line, such as register or transfer pigs, they come up as non-existent, or dead, or ORRERR, even though the piglets are all birth notified and the dams and sires are alive and listed in the main herd registration book. Every time I log on I own a different number of pigs (I fill in the annual survey on time each year), sometimes I am a breeder, sometimes not, and our sow that died last summer apparently did so 3 months before giving birth to a litter of 10. So every job has to be done twice, writing a back up e-mail to the BPA telling them what you were intending to do, and to discover whether whatever it was you submitted ever got through. Still no reply to last Friday's e-mail. With birth notifying our last litter of Tams, the only way I could get the sire up was to list him as both alive and dead. Daft. Tamsaddle
-
Not strictly true, the reason the breed clubs can't or won't upset the apple cart is that if they exit from the BPA they lose ALL the history of their breed as the BPA owns(a done deal many years ago when the NPA & BPA sort of amalagamated) the herd books of each individual breed so it would mean starting the herd books from scratch! Mandy :pig:
Have seen this so many times in my business career - things or responsibilities handed over to new firms with no thought on how you get it back if the "marriage" goes pear shaped.
-
well this is election year if you fulfill the criteria for being eligible to stand for election get your names in and make that difference happen :farmer:
-
I can't coz I'm not a member & don't intend keeping "bigger breeds" than my KKs. Plus it sounds too much like politics to me ::)
Maybe the NPA & BPA should have had a "pre-nup" - suppose it's always wise to be after the fact. It seems such a shame that costs of membership etc puts folks off keeping/registering some of the rare breeds - it'll end-up with loss of bloodlines, inter-breeding etc. which must surely be contrary to the aims of the BPA. Oh dear :(
-
Plus it sounds too much like politics to me ::)
which must surely be contrary to the aims of the BPA. Oh dear :(
Yes it is all politics and one big clique! ::) Institutionalised gravy train!
Aims - BPA err no correlation there whatsoever! >:( The BPA is just a necessary evil that we pedigree pig keepers have to use. On the whole the pedigree side does work well and is well managed by the ladies who administer it in the office. The hierarchy leave something to be desired and i'll leave it at that.
Mandy :pig:
-
do nothing and it continues use your vote or better still stand for election and make the changes
there are two reps in Scotland they might as well be on the British pregnancy association nothing has filtered through to the members what they have done or achieved i could say more but
i would vote for you :farmer:
-
use your vote or better still stand for election and make the changes
i would vote for you :farmer:
Thanks for your vote of confidence! :-* I will use my vote but on threat of life from OH cannot stand for election( already have GOS club committments) plus it will take more than one renegade on the governing body other than me to make changes go thro! I will continue to question and heckle from the sidelines.
Mandy :pig:
-
It seems such a shame that costs of membership etc puts folks off keeping/registering some of the rare breeds
I agree, because that is exactly what it has done. I can't justify registering any of my piglets at that cost.
-
VSS you are looking at it wrong. Say you have 3 good gilts in a litter and you want to register them. You will have to pay £60 to join, you get 1 free registration and pay 2 registrations at £7 each total outlay £74. Those 3 gilts are then worth £75 or more each if you sell ordinary meat pigs at say £45 each thats £135 for meat or £225 for registered.
If you do that twice a year you easily cover your registration costs etc.
-
VSS you are looking at it wrong. Say you have 3 good gilts in a litter and you want to register them. You will have to pay £60 to join, you get 1 free registration and pay 2 registrations at £7 each total outlay £74. Those 3 gilts are then worth £75 or more each if you sell ordinary meat pigs at say £45 each thats £135 for meat or £225 for registered.
If you do that twice a year you easily cover your registration costs etc.
Agree with BB, don't forget you don't 'register' all your pigs, The first process is a birth note (birth certificate)which are free and then as BB says you only register (ie get them a passport)the ones that are good enough.
Think you may be thinking you have to register a whole litter at £7 per pig which isn't the case as explained above.
HTH
mandy :pig: