The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: Penninehillbilly on June 29, 2012, 12:32:44 am
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I'm beginning to realise I've made a big mistake keeping a billy.
After last year, when even with a billy rag available, girls didn't come in season till end of October, managed to get them to a billy, they came back in season 5 days later, billy was going away that weekend, so there was no room for error. we just made it.
I thought if I kept the boy entire, his presence would bring the girls in season earlier, at least I would know when to expect to get them to a 'suitable suitor' for mating. Then to the butchers.
I've now realised September is a long way off. Born April 1st, he's still with his mum and getting a big boy, I don't know whether he could catch last years girls or the milkers during summer. He's been trying since he was born!
I do have 2 castrated males running with last years 2 girls, but it's a bind keeping them all separate, no room in the barn for the goatlings to come in and be kept separate from bolshy mums.
So my questions. Can they really mate properly at 3 months old? Can goats come in season during the summer? Will his sister be safe up to 6 month old?
Or do I sweet talk OH into yet another pen in the barn, ('spare' pens have lambs in) and get grumps for ages? very reluctant to go that way.
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" Do not trust him gentle maiden " springs to mind, yes , they do mature early and you don't want to find out just how early. You must separate asap , we had a nanny shouting for the billy in July/August last year. stick him with the wethers and raise your fences. :fc:
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Yes, they can mate effectively at 3 months apparently.
My goats start coming into season in September, but I don't know if I'd want to rely on that with an entire male around.
Also, have you dealt with an entire billy during breeding season? You won't want him anywhere near anyone else, they absolutely stink! Ie you might want to think about him in a separate field, with a field shelter, in due course.
Cross posted with Tizz. Agree about putting him with the wethers and raising the fences :D
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Carrying on from that query, how do people deal with a stinky billy when milking nannies?
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On the 'coming into season bit' - mine are pygmy's so could be a wee bit different but up last autumn we have alway taken the girls to the billy when they came into season around Sept/Oct/Nov. Last year late summer we bought a Billy and we had a lot closer kiddings - 3 in Feb and 3 three weeks later.
Most of the kids have left for their new home and already 2 of the girls have been in season, hanging around the fence to the Billy paddock even in the pouring rain - I was quite surprise they would come into season so early but I guess that's the effect the Billy has on them.
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Carrying on from that query, how do people deal with a stinky billy when milking nannies?
Debbie,
You have to keep them as far as possible form any form of civilisation, preferably three miles down wind, make sure you do everything for them after everything else has been seen to , more or less barrier nurse them, or you just spread the smell, Lemon juice and strong coffee are the only things to get it off your hands.
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Also, have you dealt with an entire billy during breeding season? You won't want him anywhere near anyone else, they absolutely stink! Ie you might want to think about him in a separate field, with a field shelter, in due course.
I wasn't thinking of keeping him through, as soon as goats start coming in season he would go to butcher, the whethers and goatlings live in a seperate field with field shelter, but those whethers aren't doing half as well as him, though they still get 200ml twice a day and concentrates, hay and grass, really wanted to keep him on his mum and growing well.
Deep down I suppose I know what I should do, but I don't want another fall-out over space in the barn, the goatlings will have to come up to the barn somehow, and billyboy out.
Pity they don't do chastity belts for goats - new invention anyone? ;D
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The further away you keep a billy the more he will smell (think about it...he smells to attract the girls) In the mating season my girls go out during the day then come in at night when the boys go out into their field) Nothing better than seeing a group of boys leaping about in the evening autumn sunshine ;D
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I wouldn't keep him. Do what you need to do either castrate or send him away. Why not borow a billy in septemberthat you can hand back when he has done his job? Lifes too short to have all this bother.
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We have two intact pygmy boys, and one intact Anglo Nubian.
The two pygmys smell, and breed all year round......the females are in season now. The AN grazes in his own paddock alongside the larger females, and shows no interest until end of October/November, when my females comes into season. Then he is kept indoors, until I want to use him on the girls.
The bigger billy does not smell anywhere near as bad as the smaller ones!! I think you do get used to the smell- I only notice the smell really when the females are in season, and the billy is spraying himself constantly to attract the ladies!!
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I never really minded the smell of our male goat, a deep, musky odour.(maybe I was a nanny goat in a previous existence ;D ) Ask your vet about a vasectomy.
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We dont keep a billy for this reason, the smell is bad enough when the nanny has been away to the billy and we have had loads of friends had accidental matings when young billy kids have jumped into another pen
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I know, but now PHB's kept him.........
If you want to continue with him to get the girls into season, a vasectomy is the answer. Then you know he can't cause any trouble but he will still behave (and smell!) like an entire male so have the desired effect. You could hang onto him then, for future years, if you wanted to, to serve the same purpose.
If you are going to give up on the idea of him getting the girls' seasons going, then the vets can castrate him. That way, you can keep him with his mum for a while long and then send him to the butcher in due course.
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Thanks all, have discussed vasectomy but think it would be expensive and I have enough on my hands without keeping a male on, I'm thinking the males esp are complete idiots!
Omnipeasant - the goats are CAE tested, I can't see anyone just lending a CAE tested male out at the height of the breeding season, even if I knew anyone, and I certainly wouldn't want the responsibility of one anyway, no, the sooner they all go to the slab the happier I'll be, just wish those boys down the field would eat more :innocent: .
No-one said when a female kid can be mated, would it be safe to run the female kid with them for a couple of months (or less if I can sell her)?
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when we got our nanny kids, theywere already pregnant so has been mated at 6 mths old.
we must be lucky with our billies, they are no trouble really.
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I had to keep a billy as there are few goats up here and only a couple of billy goats and so they are all related. When a neighbour of mine brought a billy up from Orkney but then could not keep him I leapt at the chance of having him. He is a gentleman, he is in a stable next door to the females and runs with them during the day. I have no alternative yet and have had no problems with smell but he is the only billy for about forty miles one way and you have to go to another island to see the other billy up here!
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Female kids can come into season the Autumn after they are born. I had a pygmy accidentally get in with the billy at six months, and she had a single female before she was a year old. So, yes, the youngsters can be active from an early age.
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Yes and unless he is castrated the meat will be tainted with billy too...
However I know lots of people keep their boys in the same shed as the girls (behind sturdy metal hurdles though), and the boys go out at night time. It seems to work and haven't heard of any issues re taints in milk.
Even if he doesn't get the female kids into kid, he will still constantly bother them, I have a couple of wether kids and even they jump (their sisters mainly...)..., so both my boys will go as soon as reasonable size.
I am planning to keep a couple of boys intact next year, but take them off the nanny and bottle feed in a separate pen, even away from the female kids form the start.
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Billy now seperated, down with the 2 wethers. Actually it's nice to have the girls back up in the barn, tho they aren't happy, they are used to being able to be in and out as they like, lotof fencing and rearranging before I can do that withthe barn :( .
Someones been telling me how she used to make a little 'apron' out of leather for her billies, so they couldn't actually make contact. Any thoughts?
Hermit - isn't it so windy up there the smell is whisked away?