The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: Fleecewife on June 17, 2012, 09:39:30 am
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Please can we ban apostrophes on TAS as no-one ever gets them right (me included ;D ) They are like the Highland midge to me - a constant background annoyance and probably totally unneccessary to the planet.
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I am one of the worst for this!! Most of the time I can't even spell, let alone use apostrophes ;)
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cl snds gd 2 me, txtin wd be fn 2 i fink.
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Agreed. I do know where to put them but alas cant find them on the keyboard. ;D
Always use them when writing but never find the time to experiment and find them when typing. Assume everyone will understand me as long as I use full stops. ;D
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Full stops and short sentences are good :thumbsup: With gaps in between the sentences sometimes.
I really struggle with the 'stream of consciouosness' posts that are many lines long with no full stops or gaps. My brain can no longer hold that amount of information at once ::)
As for apostrophes - well, the odd sprinkling makes little difference to understanding as far as I can see. I try hard with them but I know I get them wrong (the head of English keeps letting me know ;)).
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I try to get them in the right places, think I manage it mostly ;)
But I know Rosemary will spot every single one that's wrong ;) ;D ;D ;D
What's the wee thing about the cats tails - I vaguely remember that from school :innocent:
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Don't know the one about cats tails? But am guessing - Cat's tails - i.e. one many tailed cat. Cats' tails - one each, but several cats?
Slightly off-topic, I saw one I liked on a classroom wall:
'Commas save lives:
Let's eat Grandad
Let's eat, Grandad'
:D
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not so much rosemary it is Dan that has a leaning towards the proper use of the English language in its written form funny how it is only in its written form and not the spoken form but then i suppose grandad would know when you all knifes and forks and he did not especially when lying on the table ;) :farmer:
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My OH is a bit obsessive about them so perhaps that's why I would prefer just not to use them (except to save granddad of course ;D ;D )
There is the greengrocers apostrophe - carrot's, lettuce's, grape's - used to show a plural, but that is completely wrong. I think the possessive 's comes from John his house, shortened to John's house, so if the lettuce, carrot or grape doesn't possess something, but is just more than one, then you don't need an apostrophe before the s, or we are looking for the carrot's something.
Then there is the apostrophe used to replace a missed out letter, for example in it is, shortened to it's. That's fine - I can do that one. But what about the dog scratched its leg where I think an apostrophe is wrong - but it could be me whose wrong there, or is it who's wrong ??? ;D ;D
Too much to think about, life's too short, so if I'm not sure I just don't write them.
Plums - spelling mistakes are fine 8) Spelling changes over time, it's just a fashion and using a keyboard makes most of us make plenty of mistakes anyway.
It's the same with commas - old texts use far more than we do. But I do like to see a fair quota of full stops before my brain runs out of my ears :eyelashes:
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I too have an apostrophe thing and can spot them (or lack thereof) at a hundred paces.
It really annoys people ;)
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But what about the dog scratched its leg where I think an apostrophe is wrong - but it could be me whose wrong there, or is it who's wrong
OK, I had to keep trying to learn this one - think I've got it now (the regular shaming at senior team meetings helped cement it ::))
An apostrophe to show missing out a letter, ie it is = it's. But if its means 'belongs to' ie its leg, then no apostrophe. See, you did know!
There are plenty more important things, true enough.
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A ban on apostrophes is never going to happen on here! Although we would never pull anyone up on it in public (as long as you can make your point understood, the odd grammatical error doesn't matter a jot) Rosemary and I are both a little pedantic when it comes to punctuation. :o
Good punctuation is the difference between helping your uncle Jack, off a horse, and helping your uncle jack off a horse. ;)
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I thought I was pedantic until my children started pulling me up for lapses. But the rules of grammar allow some flexibility to avoid the correct use of English being ugly.
Worse than incorrect grammar though is where someone cannot explain clearly what they mean. I'd far rather it was wrong but clear.
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Guilty as charged m'lud . I stick'em everywhere , but they are free ! Please don't stop my fun !
Terrible memory due to smash , it wiped out most of the basics and short term memory problems prevent me re learning.
I also struggle explaining myself at times , so i swear instead !
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FW - You have helped me to slow down and focus ;D . I have found it!
can't I've ..... ''''''
Now ..... do I please Dan and make sure I use them or just carry on typing as fast as I can? ???
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Now ..... do I please Dan and make sure I use them or just carry on typing as fast as I can? ???
Just keep typing fast, I know what you mean. :)
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It's the same with commas - old texts use far more than we do.
I must be old then 'cos I use them a lot - except when i use a dash.
I can do the missing letter apostrophe, but I always wondered where you would use the apostrophe at the end (e.g. its' ) or doesn't it ever go there?
M
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I only use them when I know it is correct, which is most tho not all of the time.
Here is the chapter and verse on when to use the apostrophe; this guide also covers the 'apostrophe after the end of the word' scenario.
I would say unless people are confident they are using them correctly, leave them off as it is quite distracting to read posts where they are incorrectly used, and no-one is likely to take correction without getting offended.
However the world is unlikely to end.
A ban would be an insult to those who do know how and when to use them, a sort of compulsory dumbing down.
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Apostrophes at the end are 'belonging to' type apostrophe and are to do with something belong to plural things. So:
Cat's tails - one cat, several tails
Cats' tails - several cats and several tails (hopefully matching numbers :D)
The ones I have no idea how to use are colons and semicolons. Can anyone explain?
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It is possible (or it's possible) to live a full and long life without using either a colon or a semicolon other than as part of your digestive system. Short sentences are good. Short sentences are less prone to rambling and confusions of thought. But if you must:
Colons used in a sentence add another idea to what is already a complete sentence. That idea follows on from the first part. My garden is full of flowers: there are also some old cars and a shed.
Semicolons are followed by information that relates back to what was said in the first part. My garden is full of flowers; red, blue and white ones.
You can also use colons in lists, and semicolons where a comma would be confusing. Short sentences are still a good idea though. Any sentence which can be misunderstood will be misunderstood. Dashes are rather easier to use - that's what I find, anyway. And you can start a sentence with "and" as long as it's intentional.
Next week we'll cover the subjunctive: the week after it'll be the gerund.
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As an ex-primary teacher, I can decode most things and just like reading other peoples ideas, experiences and thoughts.
It really is the content that matters, in my opinion.
Keep typing everyone - any which way you like. ;D
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Thanks SF :thumbsup: Yes, I prefer short sentences on the whole.
Lol ITH - I say that when people apologise about spelling and handwriting - I am a secondary teacher, used to extracting meaning from the most unpromising material :D
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"But if its means 'belongs to' ie its leg, then no apostrophe."
[/size][/color]
??? [/size] ??? [/color]
[/size][/color]
[/size]Surely if it is "belonging to" then there is an apostrophe e.g. Mr Smith's newspaper as in: the newspaper of Mr Smith.[/color]
[/size][/color]
[/size]However, if it was the newspaper of the Smith family i.e. the newspaper of the Smiths - then it would be the Smiths' newspaper[/color]
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Not for its.
The dog scratched its ear with its back foot.
Fred's ear was scratched by Fred's back foot.
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It's true.
The revenge of the British Empire is to have provided a language which the rest of the world is busily adopting despite its difficulty and rich stock of irregular verbs, spellings and pronunciations. When the boys were small we had a Norwegian au pair whose English had been learned from watching Eastenders. That was interesting for all of us!
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When we opened an office in Paris we discovered that the staff had bought a small collection of DVDs to assist their grasp of English. These included Trainspotting and Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels.
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;D Yep, they'd have learned some interesting English from those :D
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I like the challenge of the apostrophe ;D ;D
I can't STAND the dumbing down of the written word with so called 'text speak' - it takes me ages to read the garbage that gets created: ur here 2nite 4 tv - lol
ARGGHHHHHHH ;D ;D ;D
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I have been known (quite often!) to correct the memos & notices on the work notice board ... I find it very unprofessional in what is meant to be an educational establishment!
I am particularly annoyed by "TA's" for Teaching Assistants [sic]
And I am hot on misplaced / missing apostrophes too....
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Sounds like quite a cluster of grammar police gathering...
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they must all hate my posts :innocent: :farmer:
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No-one could :-* ;D
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Naaa ...... I love them, Mr. Waddell. :eyelashes: ;D
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Naaa ...... I love them, Mr. Waddell. :eyelashes: ;D
Me too!
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They probably work well when translated back into the original Chinese
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they must all hate my posts :innocent: :farmer:
That one was alright, Robert. ;D
I am another stickler for apostrophes and other punctuation but, then, I am an English teacher. ;D I really annoy myself when I click on post then realise I have made a mistake.
What I really hate, though, is text speak. I always skip those posts as I can rarely understand what they are supposed to say.
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SO many teachers on TAS!! that's made me nervous now, must check all of my grammar etc ;)
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Well i didn't go to 'grammar' school ha ha , in fact i hardly went to any school , so that explains me being as thick as two short planks !
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Since when did school equate to intelligence?
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Yes point taken , i was just born thick then .
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What do you all think about definitely v definately. It used to bug the heck out of me, but then I realised that it's probably part of a general vowel shift, which seems to happen for no obvious reason in a language from time to time.
With definitely, it seems to be that you can either put emphasis on the first syllable ( DEFinitely) or the third (definITEly) which comes out as a bit cockney-sounding and somehow people have changed the vowel to an 'a' when speaking, then spell it that way too (definATEly). I have a feeling that within a few decades the 'a' will have become the norm.
Even in my lifetime (and I'm not really all that old ::) ) grammar and spelling have changed a small but noticeable amount. The same has happened in French, in spite of their serious attempts to keep their language 'pure'. I love language and regional variations in words and pronunciation - I can totally miss out on what someone has said because I have been listening to how they speak not what they are saying :innocent: I also have a parrot-like compulsion to immitate accents - which has got me into big trouble in the past :D
I used to be a language pedant but now it's the changes and differences I love.
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My spellcheck cuts in and prints what it wants. English or American? Correct punctuation or grammar? I don't know. I'm usually too busy thinking about what I'm typing to check :innocent:
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The ones I have no idea how to use are colons and semicolons. Can anyone explain?
Aren't these the large and small intestine ?
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Plums - spelling mistakes are fine 8) Spelling changes over time, it's just a fashion and using a keyboard makes most of us make plenty of mistakes
I don't think smelling pistakes are necessary on a key board, if it's wrong it's under lined in red. Discard the American spellings and correct any others. Keep trying 'til it's right, if your still stuck start to type it into Google and it will self finish your word for you, thus correct spelling where required. :eyelashes:
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And finally before I got to sleep -
before too long we'll have no apostrophe problems and no spelling mistakes as the only two words young people use are 'like' and 'amazing'
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Plums - spelling mistakes are fine 8) Spelling changes over time, it's just a fashion and using a keyboard makes most of us make plenty of mistakes
I don't think smelling pistakes are necessary on a key board, if it's wrong it's under lined in red. Discard the American spellings and correct any others. Keep trying 'til it's right, if your still stuck start to type it into Google and it will self finish your word for you, thus correct spelling where required. :eyelashes:
I don't get the corrections of my smelling pistakes when I type on TAS, so no help there ;D
For typing elsewhere, my sheep come up as 'Harridans' not Hebrideans :sheep: .
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I much prefer no apostrophes at all to incorrectly placed apostrophes. Like a few others, I can usually spot an incorrectly placed one at 10 paces (though I'm not a teacher.)
Full stops and short sentences are good :thumbsup: With gaps in between the sentences sometimes.
:-[ Not my strongest suit, often. Sorry everyone - can't promise to improve much... ::)
Then there is the apostrophe used to replace a missed out letter, for example in it is, shortened to it's. That's fine - I can do that one. But what about the dog scratched its leg where I think an apostrophe is wrong - but it could be me whose wrong there, or is it who's wrong ??? ;D ;D
No-one answered the second question! I think it probably is "who's", as in an abbreviated "who is", rather than "whose", meaning belonging to the person we were talking about.
I thought I was pedantic until my children started pulling me up for lapses. But the rules of grammar allow some flexibility to avoid the correct use of English being ugly.
Worse than incorrect grammar though is where someone cannot explain clearly what they mean. I'd far rather it was wrong but clear.
SF, your later explanation of colons and semicolons was brilliant, thank you very much for that :thumbsup:
But I can't resist a tease about the above...
I think you meant
Worse than incorrect grammar though is where someone cannot explain clearly what they mean. I'd far rather their grammer was wrong but their meaning clear.
rather than
Worse than incorrect grammar though is where someone cannot explain clearly what they mean. I'd far rather what they wrote was wrong but clear.
:ducks flying squashed tomatoes:
I only use them when I know it is correct, which is most tho not all of the time.
Here is the chapter and verse on when to use the apostrophe; this guide also covers the 'apostrophe after the end of the word' scenario.
I would say unless people are confident they are using them correctly, leave them off as it is quite distracting to read posts where they are incorrectly used, and no-one is likely to take correction without getting offended.
However the world is unlikely to end.
A ban would be an insult to those who do know how and when to use them, a sort of compulsory dumbing down.
llm, did you mean to include a link in the above? :eyelashes:
they must all hate my posts :innocent: :farmer:
Not the content, robert - never. But Oh! they are so hard to read and decipher! Sometimes I just give up and accept that I could be missing out on one of your gems. But I'd much much much rather you kept on posting just as you do than that you didn't post for fear of grammatical critique or (though this doesn't sound like you! :D) for fear of offending. (And yes I know that last sentence is difficult to read and understand. It's supposed to be irony, I think?)
Even in my lifetime (and I'm not really all that old ::) ) grammar and spelling have changed a small but noticeable amount. The same has happened in French, in spite of their serious attempts to keep their language 'pure'. I love language and regional variations in words and pronunciation - I can totally miss out on what someone has said because I have been listening to how they speak not what they are saying :innocent: I also have a parrot-like compulsion to immitate accents - which has got me into big trouble in the past :D
Me too! Me too! (Both of the above.)
(And yes, that was also a very wee parrot joke.)
(Here's another :
Q: What goes, "Pieces of seven, pieces of seven." ?
A: A parroty error
)
(Dan will get it :))
And finally, please can I now have the prizes for the longest post and for the post which includes the most quotes? :eyelashes:
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I think it's time I sat in on this one, As you can see: I'm an advocate of the short burst of information, whereas my wife , Gabriele, being German , likes to write sentences that you could buy by the metric yard, I'm sure each German word has been writen by leavingoutthegapsbetweenthem, and has no idea about a concise composition that cuts through the crap and gets to the point. Her cat dose not sit on the mat ; her pedigree Toncanese ( ho chi min x ho li s**t ) glides gracefully across the salon to arrange itself delicately upon the kashmire fibers of the Aubusson hearthrug.
Totally agree about text speak, and as for predictive text......and why do young white kids adopt the spoken ' word ' of the banana boat culture? like you no wot i meen mon.
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Sally, your tease narrows the point only to grammar while the original comment also covered misspelling. So it's a correction up with which I cannot put!
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Lol Tiz on German words and sentences.
I remember learning German at school and finding that the word for a tram stop was Strassenbarnhaltestelle (working from 35 years ago memory here so forgive a bit of mistake), which I worked out as 'street train stopping place'.
Which was very logical, if longwinded :D
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Sally, your tease narrows the point only to grammar while the original comment also covered misspelling. So it's a correction up with which I cannot put!
;D ;D ;D
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Now, see, I often call things by what they do as I increasingly can't remember their given names.
Hence 'make-it-be-colds' (ice packs you freeze in freezer then use in cool box), 'squeezy-arms' (non-intrusive bale grab - I am delighted to report that I have heard at least 3 farmers around here call them 'squeezy-arms' in recent times :D) to name just two.
My dad's favourite German phrase is 'Ickt nickt fer gerfingerpoken' - but I have a feeling he may have made that up... ;)
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Sally, your tease narrows the point only to grammar while the original comment also covered misspelling. So it's a correction up with which I cannot put!
;D ;D ;D
Actually I made that up after I saw your comment so it's a reverse tease
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(Here's another :
Q: What goes, "Pieces of seven, pieces of seven." ?
A: A parroty error
)
(Dan will get it :) )
:D :D
We need a geek joke thread in the Jokes & funnies board I think. ;)
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Lol Tiz on German words and sentences.
I remember learning German at school and finding that the word for a tram stop was Strassenbarnhaltestelle (working from 35 years ago memory here so forgive a bit of mistake), which I worked out as 'street train stopping place'.
Which was very logical, if longwinded :D
bustenhalter? :thumbsup:
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:D True :D
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Another one for Dan:
What is 1 plus 1?
10 ;D ;D
ps - this was vaguely in tune with the thread cos I used a colon :innocent:
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And in a similar vein:
There are 10 types of people - those who understand binary and those who don't ;D
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Lol Tiz on German words and sentences.
I remember learning German at school and finding that the word for a tram stop was Strassenbarnhaltestelle (working from 35 years ago memory here so forgive a bit of mistake), which I worked out as 'street train stopping place'.
Which was very logical, if longwinded :D
bustenhalter? :thumbsup:
Oooohhh - I was told it was uppendeckenfloppenstoppen?
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My favourite German word is 'luftkissenfahrtzeug' which is of course a hovercraft 8)
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Q: What goes, "Pieces of seven, pieces of seven." ?
A: A Greek parrot after they leave the Euro
(Simple Simon will get it)
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My favourite German word is 'luftkissenfahrtzeug' which is of course a hovercraft 8)
Some time ago there was a lot of made up German words for various things which had me with tears rolling down my face here a few I recall.
Die makenshiften - car horn
Das flippenfloppenstick - windscreen wiper
Der upperdeckerflopperstopper - a bra
Das lowerdeckerknackerchecker - underpants
Sorry it's mostly the rude ones that stuck in my mind.
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maybe just maybe all the grammar police on here need the grammar and punctuation for the info to filter through take it all away and sense and reason goes with it where as i read the words and take them in not everybody has an honours degree in written English then again not a lot of people have been to the university of life but i have mastered the spell check button if not for that app a lot more would be screwed on here :farmer:
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But mastery of the full stop would be a considerable improvement.
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But mastery of the full stop would be a considerable improvement.
Not even mastery, just finding the key would be a start. :innocent:
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Mr. Waddell, I like your posts just the way they are. ;D :eyelashes:
How boring if we all posted in the same style. An English Degree doesn't make what you have to say interesting, does it? ;D
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I wouldn't want Robert or his posts to change at all - its the content that matters :)
I could use spell check but anyone who's known me for any length of time will appreciate that the spelling only worsens after Wine O Clock, at which point a spell check would just be ignored anyway :innocent: [size=78%] [/size]
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Roberts content is fine or would be if the occasional piece of punctuation were introduced not necessarily the full set of full stops colons and commas but the chance from time to time to draw breath and read wtf hes trying to say might help attract a wider audience to the wisdom which might or might not be contained within the text under consideration or is that too much to task I wonder but generally theres quite a lot of common sense and experience concealed within the syntax which reminds me of Peter Sellars rendition of a politicians speech broadcast in the sixties
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ah but if you read it once it has no impact read it several times to get the flow of it and it may just linger a little longer in the memory cells ;) :farmer:
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Roberts content is fine or would be if the occasional piece of punctuation were introduced not necessarily the full set of full stops colons and commas but the chance from time to time to draw breath and read wtf hes trying to say might help attract a wider audience to the wisdom which might or might not be contained within the text under consideration or is that too much to task I wonder but generally theres quite a lot of common sense and experience concealed within the syntax which reminds me of Peter Sellars rendition of a politicians speech broadcast in the sixties
;D I bet you really struggled typing all of that with no punctuation too!
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It's the content that matters and it's not the business of other folk to be criticising people for how they write. Or anything else for that matter in my opinion.
If someone posts and asks for advice or opinions on something that's fair enough, though even then it should be kind. But unless they do, who is anyone to set themselves up as judge?
Good job Robert's not easily offended! If this was my ex having these sort of criticisms about his writing (he is badly dyslexic and can't spell or punctuate), despite his bull and bluster, he would have been deeply hurt.
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Roberts content is fine or would be if the occasional piece of punctuation were introduced not necessarily the full set of full stops colons and commas but the chance from time to time to draw breath and read wtf hes trying to say might help attract a wider audience to the wisdom which might or might not be contained within the text under consideration or is that too much to task I wonder but generally theres quite a lot of common sense and experience concealed within the syntax which reminds me of Peter Sellars rendition of a politicians speech broadcast in the sixties
;D I bet you really struggled typing all of that with no punctuation too!
I couldn't breath reading that :D ;D
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Well said, Jaykay.
Beginning to feel a little paranoid myself. Took this as a bit of a light hearted thread but feel it could be taken in other ways if not careful. :(
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once the wedding cake is shoved down the toilet then there will be bother :innocent: :farmer:
there was somebody on the forum already that got shirty with the complaints about spelling etc and left
don't give a flying fart about criticism just rip there head of and crap down there neck :farmer:
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:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :D
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they must all hate my posts :innocent: :farmer:
is, in my book, asking for comment!
(Which has been unanimously complementary about contribution and content. :thumbsup:)
But if you don't want to know how big your bum looks in something, don't ask! :D
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Some time ago there was a lot of made up German words for various things which had me with tears rolling down my face here a few I recall.
Der upperdeckerflopperstopper - a bra
Ever seen the film "Beaches" .... in our house its called a "titslinger!"
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My favourite German word is 'luftkissenfahrtzeug' which is of course a hovercraft 8)
Some time ago there was a lot of made up German words for various things which had me with tears rolling down my face here a few I recall.
Die makenshiften - car horn
Das flippenfloppenstick - windscreen wiper
Der upperdeckerflopperstopper - a bra
Das lowerdeckerknackerchecker - underpants
Sorry it's mostly the rude ones that stuck in my mind.
The funniest thing about these words is t hat the actual German words for them are all shorter than the English words.
So much for this rumour that German words are all so terribly long and convoluted.
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(http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/c0.0.300.300/p403x403/398393_10150755623513136_1119052152_n.jpg)
Look familiar? ;)
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Took me a sec, but the topic heading helped ;)
:D :D :D :D