The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: Rosemary on June 13, 2012, 01:25:12 pm
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I know this has been on here before but I can't remember who the main poster was - Castle Farm, I think?
I've been offered a supply of whole barley, so I thought I'd investigate grain only diets. Our hens free range over three big pens (each has 10m2 per hen) on a rotation, so they have access to fresh grass, bugs etc.
Anyone any experience of this, tips, information?
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Only to say that our completely free-range hens get only mixed corn from me. I stopped giving them layers' pellets in fear of naughty ponies getting into the sack and the hens seem absolutely fine.
Mind, they are of course at liberty to peck at spilled lamb pellets, cattle mix, etc, as they find it about the farm, and I can't say how much or little of that they do take.
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mine were on grain only, free ranging tho, all fine and great eggs.
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Mine range over an acre and are fed wheat only this time of year, lots of eggs and healthy birds. :chook: Come winter they get wheat, barley and a little maize, once a week in the real cold weather i add some cod liver oil.
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interesting topic. Our little flock also free range and I notice that they barely touch they're layer pellets. They go mental for corn in the afternoons though. I think we will try a grain only diet when this bag of pellets is gone.
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MikeM you have taken the words right out of my mouth. Mine love their grain, much more so than the pellets. If I change over completely to grain when this lot of pellets is gone it would also mean I don't need to worry about keeping the food seperate.
Sally
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Mine are feed mixed corn (which seems to give the yolks of the eggs a lovely yellow colour) and will eat that rather then layers pellets, which I tend to avoid giving as the goats always seem to be able to find that and it gives them an awful dose of something runny and is not good for them. ;D
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Ours have free access to layer pellets and probably go through three bags a week plus they get some mixed corn in the afternoon. They look well and are laying well but a) I've got a source of cheap / free feed and b) the layer pellets do seem to have things added.
If the two flocks were the same, I'd change one and see if performance dropped, but they aren't.
They certainly like the corn and I suspect that they would eat it in preference to layer pellets but I was taught that the corn made them fat and should only be a treat?
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i think chickens are self regulating, ive yet to see an obese one.
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Too low on protein I think Rosemary as with such a small ranging area you can't assume any significant protein intake from that. You need to maintain at least 15% to get full egg laying. So you either increase the area to increase the grubs or suppliment their diet with sunflower seeds, mealworms and the like. Don't know to hand what the actual protein level of Barley is. It will vary anyway but it's likely to be less than 10%.
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The best source of info on diet is in Ussery "The Small Scale Poultry Flock" which is a wonderful source of info. He has great ideas of how to grow your own protein to supplement the grain - using wormeries and fly larvae. If you can get hold of a copy it is well worth it :thumbsup:
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Mixed corn quite often has too much maize in it rosemary, better off feeding straight wheat or adding your own maize at the quantity you want. Layers pellets is made up of mostly ground wheat with added vits and minerals.
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Too low on protein I think Rosemary as with such a small ranging area you can't assume any significant protein intake from that. You need to maintain at least 15% to get full egg laying
That would be my thought. Truly free-range chooks can find their own protein though.
As for them preferring corn to layers pellets, well yes they certainly do. I prefer icecream to meat and cabbage too but it doesn't mean I should be eating icecream all the time :D
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years gone by all the hens free range of course were fed nothing but wheat all year untill they slowed down laying <moult>etcthen we introduced mixed corn boiled spuds with lots of pepper but then there was not the incredible amounts of pellets<maybe one or two>supplements wormers seems we are all being taken in by drug and food companies stating they can perform miracles i even seen a fox repellant sold by one company would not take a chance with that but i am sure some people have maybe old fashioned but i know of only one detterant and it makes a bang
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My lot have been on Grain feed since I read what was in Pellets. I like them to have as natural diet as possible. I do a mix of 2 barley - 4 wheat- 1.5 cut maize (1.5 pt jug), a couple of teaspns of Poultry Spice a shake of either garlic flakes or linseed meal with a couple of capfuls of codliver oil well mixed. They free range over all the paddocks as long as the grass isn't too long, scratch over the dung heap -plenty of worms in that, do get meal worms as a treat now and then.
Beautiful golden yolks and happy hens - can't get enough eggs to keep my customers happy so going to get some Black Rocks and Marans to up my little flock seeing as my Cockeral seems not to be fertile this year - is it due to the weather fluctuations - anyone else have this problem. ?
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I have fed a pellet free diet for years. I get rolled barley as the kernal is easy to get at and it absorbs the cod liver oil better.
God alone knows what they put in pellets.
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As for them preferring corn to layers pellets, well yes they certainly do. I prefer icecream to meat and cabbage too but it doesn't mean I should be eating icecream all the time :D
Dont believe the propaganda these feed companies put out, free ranging birds find everything they need out foraging, pellets make your birds lazy, its fast food for chooks. I dont feed pellets and my birds lay fine and are healthy as can be. These feed companies want you to believe grain is bad for them Its not a treat it should be their staple diet. Makes you wonder how fowl survived for hundreds of years before these feed companies came along. We must remember the word corn describes all grain (wheat, barley,maize etc) Wheat is the main ingredient of pellets yet these companies tell you too much grain is bad for them :-J very clever marketing.
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I based icecream my comment on the carb/protein content of corn versus layers pellets - truthfully I've never seen layer pellets advertised, but if I did, I'd still try to make up my own mind by finding out the facts and discussing it with other experienced people.
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Great thread thanks - echoing my own experince this year - layers pellets barely touched and mad scramble for 'mixed corn' at start and end of day. They fully freerange, so I expect that are getting all the protein they need. I too will stop the layers once this bag is finished. So Q for those that do - is mixed corn in a bag OK or do I need to investigate buying wheat barley etc and doing own mix (basically whats the difference - is it for nutition reasons or price reasons that you do your own mix?) Many thanks, Fi
Interestingly, if I get them to eat mixed corn from my hand, they peck all the grains at amazing spead - completely avoiding and leaving the black sunflower seeds!!!
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I based icecream my comment on the carb/protein content of corn versus layers pellets - truthfully I've never seen layer pellets advertised, but if I did, I'd still try to make up my own mind by finding out the facts and discussing it with other experienced people.
Sorry jaykay didnt mean to get on my soap box and start preaching or sound patronising just pointing out free ranging birds will do equally well if not better on a grain fed diet, of course what you feed your birds is your choice.
FiB most feed suppliers will stock bags of whole wheat, mite be an idea to mix it with the mixed corn because some brands seem to contain a lot of maize. Mine are on just wheat this time of year.
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The only reason I feed pellets as opposed to wheat is that whenever I put wheat in the feeder it gets bloody mobbed by doves - on the plus side, I then shoot and eat some of the doves.
My neighbours chickens only get wheat, but then, being the keeper all the wheat is 'for the pheasants' *ahem*.
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Yes, ours only get wheat at this time of year and they all seem fine.
What I want to know is where I can buy wheat in at a tonne a time, since that could save me a fortune compared with individual sacks. Any ideas where to try folks?
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Try your local arable farmer womble, harvest time is the time to ask usually get spillages for nothing :innocent:
I never use feeders i just scatter feed x-amount each morning, keeps them busy scratching and searching the grain out, once thats gone they find their own food.
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Thanks Fowlman. You know, I have no idea where my local arable farmer might be. It's all sheep and cows near us.
Sorry if this is really ignorant, but would it need drying or anything before storage?
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What I want to know is where I can buy wheat in at a tonne a time, since that could save me a fortune compared with individual sacks. Any ideas where to try folks?
Ask your local feed supplier about dumpy bags of straights. Ours won't deliver less than 4T but if you have a pickup or appropriate trailer you can go and get a dumpy bag (c. 1/5T) full from their stores, or if you can take 1T in your trailer, they'll tip that directly into the trailer for you, which is cheaper still.
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I've always fed mixed grain Rosemary but they leave the barley until last - I don't put out more until it's eaten, so it's the least popular grain. I alternate with bags of pure corn - my hens have never become fat, are all ancient and laying like troopers, in full health (they're all nearly 7yrs now), so haven't really paid attention to that thing about corn as a treat. You can't give it to your pigs as it goes through them whole as I remember (don't have piggies now).
How about home brew? ;)
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Hi, my hubby is an arable farmer and he tells me that barley is 12% protien and wheat possibly a little more. From what your all saying I think I'll try giving my hens more wheat. At the moment they get a roughly 50/50 mix of wheat and layers pellets but i have noticed that they pick the wheat out first.
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Wheat is 10% Oneeyedhen, if I remember correctly from when I last looked it up. Lots of Carbohydrate in wheat so a good winter evening feed which digests slowly overnight. To get the protein up most feeds use soyabean. Cockerels outside the breeding season only need 9% according to Storey's Guide, laying hens 16% -18%.
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Lots of grubs and insects soon bump up the protein level.
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my bag of wheat has a lot of dust in it this time - thought about rinceing it with water first - how about spreouting it - maybe even better for the hens.
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A grain diet will work fine as long as the birds get free range to get what they need in 'extra' protien.
This idea of a bird needing 15% protien has been bandied about for years, ever since the feed companies started producing pellets and scared people into thinking chickens would not lay/die without crude protien of 15%-17%.
Now they have found that this measure of 'crude protien' was very crude and out of date and are trying to re-evaluate it.
Feed corn, healthy for your birds. Healthy eggs for you and your children.
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mine wer on ground barley (not whole as apparently the husks are a bit spikey for poultry) for a while when we had it for the pigs. i found they didnt do quite aswell on it and the egg shells were a bit thinner. i also found (for the pigs awell, ) i fed more of it as i was feeling a bit guilty as it wasnt a balance diet so it wasnt much cheaper to feed went back to layers pellets.
if u get it alot cheaper, im sure it wont hurt, especially if u fed it 50/50 with layers.
i do supplement with a tonic in their water too when i think they need it.
:wave:
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I am loving this topic. Here is my angle on this. Firstly most smallholders are keeping chickens so that they know what goes into their mouths and consequently that the eggs that come out of the other end are free from chemicals etc. So I am surpised that a lot of people who have replied are using pellets of some kind. I am not saying there is anything wrong with pellets but they are mass produced to suit large poultry enterprises who cannot rely on chickens supplementing their diet with worms and beetles. As smallholders we are better able to offer a more natural life for chickens so if free range is possible surely the chooks will natural choose the best diet.
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i agree, well said.
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Yup, ditch the pellets, too many problems, make it wholesome and natural, what could be wrong with that - the old maxims 'less is more' and 'keep it simple' :eyelashes:
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if think ditching pellets would require more than replacing them solely with barley.
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I think if hens were stuggling with just grain or not enough protien for any reason, it would soon show in a drop in egg laying and condition. If they are happy,
healthy and laying, whatever they are eating is suiting them well.
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if think ditching pellets would require more than replacing them solely with barley.
Barley on its own isn't much good, its wheat they need mainly.
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Taking them off pellets will mean they have a slight drop in egg numbers untill the birds get a balanced diet from foraging.
The birds need enough protein to either produce feather or lay eggs, besides everyday energy and bodily needs.
I feed mine 3 wheat 1 cut maize 1 rolled barley, cod liver oil in winter when the light levels are low and cider vinegar, plus greens in the breeding pens for birds not able to get out on forage.
Lawn clippings are fine. I grow lots of spinach and anything in the way of weeds gets given to the birds.
I free range my growers as soon as possible, as it stops feather pecking and bordom. It gets the youngsters running about after live feed in the way of insects.
Bagged feed as far as I'm concerned contains nothing I'd want to eat myself and when you eat the eggs from birds fed on pellets your eating whatever the mills have put in it.
I run about 360 birds in 12 different breeds as near a natural life as possible, including hatching under broodies and they lay and breed perfectly well on a grain diet, as poultry does all over the world without pellets.
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I feed mine 3 wheat 1 cut maize 1 rolled barley, cod liver oil in winter when the light levels are low and cider vinegar, plus greens in the breeding pens for birds not able to get out on forage.
thats sounds like a recipe for success. how economical is that compared to layers pellets?
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I first started using layers mash to find chemicals in there so I only mix mine myself now, 20kg kibbled maize,60kg wheat,10kg sunflower,a large tub of mealworms and some oyster grit.Plus they get cabbages and the like even though they are free ranging.
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I only feed my chooks mixed corn or wheat. They will not eat layers pellets at all. They would rather leave them and go foraging instead. At this time of year they even leave alot of the corn too. They all free range over an acre and are obviously getting loads of greenery and bugs etc. My dad gets hold of wheat for me as he runs his own shooting syndicate. ;)
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If you feel you need to increase their protein levels when feeding straights then you can just breed your own meal worms or compost worms.
Anyone with a polytunnel can do a great job of vermicomposting by excavating some pits where the paths are. Line the sides with blocks and put some weldmesh on the bottom. Fill up with manure and chuck in some worms - it needs to be manure worms not earth worms. Then put some ply down to walk on as your path. Top up the manure regularly and add food scraps from your kitchen if you want. The worms will multiply rapidly and can be fed to your hens and you will be left with lots of lovely compost to grow your veggies.
Also someone mentioned sprouting grain - this will also increase the protein content.
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Do you think it's ok for 6 week olds not to get growers pellets then?
They've been given chick crumbs up to now although they prefer mum's wheat. Also I let them all out for 4-5 hours a day so have been getting lots of bugs and greens.
Trying to decide whether to buy a bag of growers pellets - still got lots of chick crumbs - anyone in West Scotland want it?
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My chicks are almost 6 weeks old now and I've just run out of crumb so they're quiet happily on pellets. I have noticed that they love wheat. I put some in their run just to vary their diet and give them something to sratch about for. I havent ventured them out side yet, not sure if or when I should :-\ . I give them greens too but it does seem to me that hens love wheat!! :yum:
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just try no pellets for a few days it proves itself ihave also noticed that when hens are off pellets they seem more settled relaxed and the frenzied feeding stops all my birds are free ranged 100%
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Would you suggest that for younger chicks or pullets too?
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not sure but if they were mine i would at least try cant see it causing any probs
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Mine go onto grain at 6 weeks, all good healthy birds.