The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: Luce747 on May 29, 2012, 12:06:35 pm
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We had a pair of new Kune Kunes on Saturday and they are our first pigs.
One is a sow and one castrated boar. They just had a fight and have drawn blood. In fact the sow is now missing the end of her tail :'(
Is this normal or are they just settling in ?
It is the first fight they have had and this is their 4th day here.
Glad I wasnt in the middle of that!! I was hoping they could live with a couple of goats but after seeing them fight it seems a little unsafe to trust them around other animals. They have already squashed a grower chick because they previously lived with lots of chicken and ducks so we trusted them. Have now removed the growers.
I can see they are going to be major handful!!! :pig: :pig:
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and some folk say that kunnies are the pigs to have
you just may have to get in there and administer a bit of evenhandedness
had it been two sows there is a greater chance of them fighting
has something changed in there environment to make them aggressive are they new to each other on Saturday
thank you for posting it gives a more balanced approach to pig keeping ;) :farmer:
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they are not new to each other. been together all their lives - now about 18 month old.
all i can think is the stress of moving house has got the better of them or they now have new territory so re-establishing a pecking order?? I know very little about pigs so this is a steep learning curve.
hoping it wont be a regular occurence anyway!!!
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maybe the castrate is going loopy just watch yourself have somebody else there with you just in case it does decide to have you are they getting the same feeding as they were :farmer:
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previous owners did say they were feeding a sack of nuts 3 weekly which doesnt sound like much at all. i am feeding 1KG plus loads of carrots and will get a better variety of veg when i can get to a veggie market on thursday. dont want to overdo it as they are a nice weight.
suppose they havent got loads of space as I am messing about extending the area they are in but that shouldnt be an issue as they came from a 20ft x 20ft pen plus shed so its not like they are used to a field.
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Sudden increase in, and / or excessive protein ration certainly could account for temperament changes. No doubt Karen will be along soon to advise on feeding KKs...
The only other thoughts I had were (a) are you certain he's castrated? ;) But if they've always been together and they're 18 months old, then I guess he must be! (b) he couldn't have been stung by a bee or something, could he? And thought it was the sow's fault, if she was nearby?
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i thought the improper castration as well but you would know a handfull compared to nothing
1 kilo= 2.2 lbs that is double what the recommended is if they are getting twice the amount of feed they would sleep not be aggressive :farmer:
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well there you go. I was told 1kg minimum for kunes with no grazing available.
seemed a lot to me but as i said at the top, i'm new to pigs full stop - not just kunes.
i havent had them long enough to diagnose the problem but the only time they appear to get excitable and snappy is when there is 'treat food' around - i.e something other than pig nuts!
I first threw some chicken grower pellet down the other day and the pigs snapped at the chicks and went crazy for their chick food. when eating the same old daily pig nuts they are much calmer.
Perhaps its because they were picking up some chicken feed or something. that might be what started the fight.
they are registered with the kune kune society as a non active male and breeding sow so presume sexed correctly!
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ah as the story develops the more info is coming forward it is meant to be i lb of nuts with lashings of grass if no grass they will be the same as any other pig what they can eat in 20 minutes
the poor wee buggers are hank Marvin no wonder they are a small pig they don't get enough to eat
they will still eat the hen food and then the hens ;) :farmer:
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they are not starving... like I said, I am feeding a kilo of pig nuts plus other stuff which I havent settled on a daily weight to feed yet. The amount of differing advice you get is ridiculous and totally contradictory but somebody must be right! All I can do is trial and error. You mentioned the 20minute thing - it takes them 20 mins or more to finish their first meal and even a few pellets get left! So don't believe they are starving.
These particular 2 had occassional access to lush grass and never touched it so the previous owners didnt feel it would hurt them to move here - where there is NO grass.
But I presume by your response that drawing blood consitutes a serious pig fight so there must have been something wrong earlier. They are fast asleep at the moment.
If I cannot figure it out I'll just have to hope there are no more fights but it has been an eye opener. Like I said before - I now dont trust them around other animals and will have to keep the pair alone. At least they are evenly matched!
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It's strange that they'd fight if they've always lived together, are they 18months old? If so she is a gilt and he a castrate, (just being pedantic) the move may have triggered her to come into season, causing her to be snappy and being in new surroundings has upset their routine. I'm sure once settled into a new routine they'll be fine, kunes are delightful little pigs, very docile. What sort of pasture are they on? If its good and lush they'll not need much feeding, mine have a 1lb per day bteween them and fruit and veg, they spend a few hours a day on good grass. If the grazing is good they'll not need much at all, just keep an eye on them, look at pictures on the kune website, it'll give you an idea of what healthy weight looks like. Take some pics if you can to show us.
Also grower sized chickens maybe too small, although the pigs might be used to chickens, the chickens aren't used to pigs, so maybe wait till they are bigger to be introduced, as for the goats they should all mix happily, as long as you keep the feeds separate, maybe let the pigs settle until they are introduced.
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thank you dixie - its good to know that they should settle and we might also have the option of trusting them with a couple of goats! I love to watch different species interact and hate having them all segregated.
There are even a couple of guinea pigs and rabbits running with them but they are agile enough to keep away from a snap.
It did occur to me that the 'gilt' (my mistake) could be on heat as she does look a little pink and swollen - like how my nanny goats gets.
Just didnt think that would particularly affect a castrate - and I am sure it is he who is instigating the bickering.
As for grazing - there is none but they came from a home with no grazing and have been fed on pig nuts & veg only.
When offered grass, they refuse it.
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you have got to sympathise with the poor we guy there she is gouping for it and nothing he can do about it :farmer:
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sorry - also just saw the bit about pics.
Here are some I took on Saturday just after they arrived:
(http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq239/lawsonslionheads/Picture008.jpg)
(http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq239/lawsonslionheads/Picture018-1.jpg)
(http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq239/lawsonslionheads/Picture017-1.jpg)
with hubby
(http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq239/lawsonslionheads/jaypig.jpg)
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Layer pellets are poison to other animals, don't feed it where the pigs can get it.
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I have seen guinea pigs, rabbits and goats all eating layers pellets and they are all still alive!
In fact I throw layers pellets in to my chickens who live 24/7 with over a dozen rabbits and the rabbits eat both layer pellet and rabbit mix.
I know plenty of people whose rabbits eat layer pellet and to be fair - there is no animal as sensitive as a rabbit...
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I know dogs, not pigs, but I also know what sex can do to normally calm animals.(including humans ;) )
She's in season due to the change in surroundings, she tries to get him interested, he says b$$ger off, she retaliates. Simples! as they say.
And I wouldn't feed them chicken pellets either, they are made for chickens not pigs, not cats, not dogs, not cows - chickens!!!!
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The amount of differing advice you get is ridiculous and totally contradictory but somebody must be right! All I can do is trial and error.
Hiya Luce,
Unfortunately there is never really a 'right' answer - if only there was ;) but everybodies set up varies slightly as do the individual pigs involved.
I feed 1lb of pig nuts per pig, per day. Mine have large paddocks and a fairly good supply of fruit and veg (maybe 2lbs each per day ish) They are a good weight, neither too fat or too skinny - you definitely don't want them getting too heavy, that's where the problems start.
I think the move of surroundings has unsettled them and they'll be a bit on edge, but the chicken food might well have something to do with it - best keep it away from them.
Give it another few days and see how they go, I know folks who keep Kunekune with goats without problems (always seperated at feeding time ;) ) but let them get used to you first before trying any new introductions.
Give your gilt's tail a squirt of purple spray or get some wound powder on it, again, just to be on the safe side.
HTH
Karen :wave:
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And I wouldn't feed them chicken pellets either, they are made for chickens not pigs, not cats, not dogs, not cows - chickens!!!!
Who said I feed the pigs on chicken pellets? ???
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And I wouldn't feed them chicken pellets either, they are made for chickens not pigs, not cats, not dogs, not cows - chickens!!!!
Who said I feed the pigs on chicken pellets? ???
Quote - I first threw some chicken grower pellet down the other day and the pigs snapped at the chicks and went crazy for their chick food. when eating the same old daily pig nuts they are much calmer.[/size]Perhaps its because they were picking up some chicken feed or something. that might be what started the fight. - unquote.[/color]
Perhaps what I should have said is that I wouldn't let them have access to chicken food, I didn't mean to imply that you actually intentionally feed it - sorry. ::) [/size] [/color]
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Who said I feed the pigs on chicken pellets? ???
You wrote - I first threw some chicken grower pellet down the other day and the pigs snapped at the chicks and went crazy for their chick food. when eating the same old daily pig nuts they are much calmer. Perhaps its because they were picking up some chicken feed or something. that might be what started the fight.
Perhaps what I should have said is that I wouldn't let them have access to chicken food, I didn't mean to imply that you actually intentionally feed it - sorry. ::)
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meh its just me having a bad day. sometimes when youre new to an animal people can sound a bit condescending when giving advice and ive kept that many species from domesticated to zoo and wild animals that I am not the average under-researched newbie.
Just keen to do right by the pigs!
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wonder if thats what gave mine the quits they got in my duck pen and tipped the feed bin over and had a good feed, see my new post DODGY FEED.
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Pics are great! They look fine to me, a nice size, are they beginning to settle?
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meh its just me having a bad day. sometimes when youre new to an animal people can sound a bit condescending when giving advice and ive kept that many species from domesticated to zoo and wild animals that I am not the average under-researched newbie.
Just keen to do right by the pigs!
To be fair the animal health people would throw a fit if they saw pigs having access to chicken food so peeps posting only have your best interests at heart.
eg Separation of the chicken feed from the other livestock feed was the thing our AH inspectors were interested in above all else when they visited, and they took samples to test for any element of cross contamination and once they were clear sent us a letter to say we had passed and authorising us to carry on feeding our chickens layers pellets (!) (not sure what they expected us to feed them on if we failed....:-))). As chicken feed ingredients are sometimes derived from non veggie ingredients in order to help chickens grow healthy bones etc even where it isnt apparent on the labelling or enquiry with the feed manufacturer.
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Lachlandmarcus,
I have all my food in galvanised dustbins, labeled on the lid and sides, mixed corn for chickens and geese, layers pellets, pig nuts, but all standing next to each other. Would this pass muster by AH?
Sally
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no :( :farmer:
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Sally, your layers pellets (but not your corn) must be kept at least 6 feet (or the equivalent in new money) away from your other feed.
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Also, I meant to say, I bought four weaner pigs, three gilts and a castrate and put them in with my Kunes, dear amiable things that they are. Went up next day to find the castrate's tail had been bitten through (he was five months old) so assumed that he'd been trying it on with one of the Kune sows and she had objected. Sprayed it with purple spray and it was fine and he tasted lovely :yum:
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Thanks Sylvia. I have two stables, neither used for animal housing, so will put the layers pellets in the other one.
Sally
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Thanks for asking that Bionic ..... keep mine in exactly the same way as you so Ive been waiting for an answer.
Thanks Sylvia ...... Going now to move my Layers Pellets into solitary confinement and stick on a hazardous materials sticker ::) ;D
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So as not to take over this thread I am going to start another in poultry re layers pellets
Sally
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I have two stables, neither used for animal housing
Oh, you want to get that sorted, Sally! ;) :D :love: :horse: :love: :cow:
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Lol give her time ;D sure something will come along
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I am trying to persuade OH that stables aren't meant to store rubbish in. Whenever I mention anything remotely to do with animals he winces :eyelashes:
Sorry, I know this emoticon doesn't belong there but just wanted to use it ;D
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Just troubled by the comment that Layers Pellets are toxic, I cant stop my dogs (Lab and Lab/collie cross) getting in and hoovering any left over pellets. Sure makes for some smelly dog farts, but should I be worried?