The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: luckylady on May 28, 2012, 11:23:35 pm
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Sadly, Cyril, one of our four pet lambs had to be put to sleep this evening - sudden onset bloat. Vet saw him quickly and tried various emergency treatments but an hour later he had blown up again so took him back for the inevitable as he was obviously in considerable pain. Really sad as he was the strongest, friendliest and most comical of the four and we'd become really fond of him even though he was only 5 weeks old. :'(
My question is who do I have to inform that he is no longer alive. I will be phoning the fellmonger in the morning to collect but do I have to inform local animal health office? (The vet quietly said to just bury him). I have movement papers and tags from his arrival (though the tags hadn't been put on yet) so didn't know if his disposal would/could possibly be tracked by the officials at some point.
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Sorry to hear that sad news :(
Personally, I'd go through the approved channels for notification as you have other sheep still alive. Call Trading Standards - they'll tell you what to do regarding notification beyond recording it in your livestock record book.
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You just record it in your flock book (there's a page for deaths) and have it picked up by the fellmonger. No more notification needed.
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Agree with Jaykay. Keep it simple
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as jay kay said sudden deaths you are supposed to notify animal health through your vet as your vet is the first point of contact
this procedure is essential to prevent the spread of notifiable diseases and the spread of devastation within the livestock industry :farmer:
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Thanks all, you've confirmed the direction for disposal that I was going to go in anyway, but as this is my first death I didn't know whether the vets 'quiet suggestion' was commonplace for pet sheep or not and I wasn't sure whether I had to notify anyone else. The keep it simple principle works for me.
Robert - the vet already knows as it was him who put Cyril to sleep.
Also, should I have been sent a flock record book by animal health when I registered? I'm writing every single detail in a diary at the moment even down to how much milk they took at each feed but I would prefer to use the correct paperwork.
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yes lucky lady i did read that part :farmer:
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Sorry to hear about your lamb. A bad day :bouquet: . Yes the animal welfare gave me my movement book when they came to inspect a year after we came here! So you could ring them and ask for one - it does make recording a bit simpler in that you can see the information that they think is important.
Personaly I think I would consider burying one untagged pet lamb with cause of death established (especially on the whisper of a vet). Clearly you cant do this as a rule, or if you are in anyway in business but one? yes I possibly would. Probably going to get my first forum BLAST for this :-\
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A neighbour gave me a freebie diary for records that he had picked up from a local agri-store.
I wondered if there was anything more official so looked on the net. I am in Wales and for here there is a record that can be downloaded or as I did you can ring and they will send you a copy. It didnt include a medicines record so they sent me one for cattle and told me to use that!
I thought it was all very haphazard considering they are supposed to be so keen on paperwork. Did explain very clearly to them when I registered that I was a complete novice and wanted to know everything that I needed to do concerning records. All seemed very relaxed - their response was ... oh, ask the person you are buying them from ... ::)
Sorry about your lamb. No experience of this but a local farmer told me that they bury untagged lambs and if the vet advised this then maybe its fairly common practice??? ???
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:bouquet: sorry for your loss. Just write it in the holding register and keep the ticket from the knacker man. I know many folk just chuck stillborns 'over the hedge' for foxes etc, or bury them, but a 5 week old lamb is a little more awkward to deal with. At least going the official route gives you a clear conscience!
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The fellmonger is the person who collects the skins from the abattoir; the knacker collects fallen stock and takes them to the incinerator.
Although having to have dead animals collected for disposal is a pain, there is a reason for it, which is the health of everyone else's livestock and ultimately the health of those who eat them, so I'm glad you will go the official route.
Very sad about your little bloated lamb - have you worked out what caused it so you can keep the others healthy? :sheep:
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I know many folk just chuck stillborns 'over the hedge' for foxes etc
Yes - as FW says - not a great idea :( . I don't want to give foxes any further reasons for hanging around the area.......
Fortunately our local knacker man is our neighbour so in the past I have just taken any fallen stock to his place in a barrow.
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Sorry to hear the news.
Personally when I phone the knackers yard to pick up stock I get him to stop in the car park down the road and take the stock down to him.
I think that having dead stock collected from the yard in a huge truck filled with other peoples dead stock completely destroys the point of not burrying them safly on your own farm by having everyones elses dead stock stench leaking onto my own yard.
I wouldnt tag it before going on the lorry as their is no need.
Its a bit expensive to have one lamb taken away - our yard charges by the 'bag of lambs' with no head count.
I doubt you will find a farmer who hasnt burried dead stock on farm or slung it over a hedge.
For smallholders with 'pet' animals I do think it would be better to burry something - cos after you see whats in the back of that lorry you'll want to go home and throw up ;)
Baz
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Apologies for getting my terminology wrong Fleecewife - I'll know in future. Like I said its my first experience of fallen stock.
From various reliable sources we are led to believe it was bloat due to gorging and the very hot weather despite being on timed turnout and less than lush pasture. The other three are fine but will be keeping an even closer eye on them now. It just all happened so quickly - went to let them out for their timed grazing and he was like a balloon. At vets within 10 minutes though so I don't feel there was anything more we could have done.
Thanks for all the feedback re record keeping books etc. I'll make a phone call to animal health.
Don't worry bazzais, I definitely won't be peering in the back of the lorry - I know what lurks within! Was at a neighbouring farm when they had the knacker man last year. Will pay me money, take the slip and let him get on with it. £8 by the way, so in the bigger scheme that isn't a problem.
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No sheep or lamb can ever qualify as a 'pet' in the eyes of the law, it is very clear on this. So to stay within the law, you need to get it taken away by the knacker/fallen stock. Really vet should not be encouraging breaking the law......
The only exception and then only for the UK is for pet horses (tho not working horses) who because they are essentially not in the UK food chain have a part derogation allowing burial where is is well away from water courses, well draining ground etc.
But lamb, no, that has to go to the fallen stock people. Lambs are a cheap fee too, so cost not really an issue.
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We had one PTS last year - Hubby took him to the vet and they arranged disposal via approved method and then we just paid with an invoice at the end of the month.
I remember someone I know burying a lamb not long after I'd gone through the heartbreak of watching my beautiful pedigree nanny goat being thrown into the knackervan. So hard when they really feel like pets but the law says they have to go in the way it does. I guess we have the laws for a reason though. Sorry to hear of your little lamb luckylady :bouquet:
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Thanks plumseverywhere. Sorry to hear of your pedigree goat. :bouquet:
The deed is done Cyril has been collected. Knackerman was really nice and parked at the back of the barn out of view. Sad time but its onwards and upwards as they say, the other animals need my attention.
I'm still hoping to beat the odds with the other three lambs and now know through bitter experience how systemically fragile bottle fed lamb are. Have brilliant support from local vets having worked there previously and neighbouring farmer is always on hand for further advice, as well as, of course, the support from fellow 'Accidental Smallholders'. Thanks all.
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I lost a 'pet' lamb at 5 weeks last year, sorry :bouquet: . But we took her to the yard ourselves and it cost 50p, all paperwork supplied.
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Thanks Bramblecot. :) I did consider taking the lamb to the knackers yard myself but its quite a treck and tbh didn't think I could stomach what I might see or smell especially in this hot weather.
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Phoned Animal Health office regarding long awaited holding register only to be told 'oh no we don't send them out anymore'. Well you may want to retrain your front line staff in this knowledge as I was told otherwise when I registered. (not that I acutally said this). Anyway sussed out where to download copy and printed off minus the reems of continuation sheets within. Disappointed to find no record sheet for administered medications though - would have thought that logical to include. Will produce my own as surely batch numbers of meds, date of administration etc should be recorded.
Tonights task - transfer all information from 'dairy diary' to holding register!
Have definitely discovered that as a novice sheep keeper you cannot rely on the authorities to set you on the right path regarding official paperwork though I'm sure I could rely on them to 'repremand' if its not done correctly. There are so many different departments to deal with and none of them seem to communicate effectively. One department even told me it was fine to go ahead and get my pet lambs before I had my CPH number. I didn't, of course, but it makes me wonder who would.
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Postcode lottery (as with many things these days). I think I was lucky with our local Animal health bod's as they were very informative prior to my buying in stock but then the visit they did here was very useful too - never once did I feel scrutinised or nervous, in fact she left me with the words that my animals are being cared for incredibly well.phew.
There are some forms on the BGS website that I used for my meds [size=78%]http://www.allgoats.com/pricelist.htm (http://www.allgoats.com/pricelist.htm)[/size] if it helps x
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Thanks plumseverywhere, thats ideal :thumbsup: . Printed and included. And, what a useful website - wish I had goats now!! ;D :goat:
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Ahhh well, that could be next years plan ;D